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Old 25 August 2021, 05:03 PM   #751
Mills_
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Is a lower serial number more desirable if there are known issues with the lower serial numbers?
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Old 25 August 2021, 06:35 PM   #752
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That last bit is pretty stupid if you ask me. All things equal I would want the lowest number possible.

Not saying you’re incorrect I have no idea just stating my thoughts on early vs late production of any watch.
Well that’s what I observed from the preowned market.. particularly full set from 2019 and later are asking for top money.
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Old 25 August 2021, 08:06 PM   #753
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Well thatís what I observed from the preowned market.. particularly full set from 2019 and later are asking for top money.
Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

Concerning the FPJ CB.... no idea if there is a big difference between a 2010 and 2019
If so.... maybe the 2019-2020 were ment for special clients cause afaik around that time they did not take extra orders and a bit later I was told only VIP could order one.
Also today.... if youíre on the list you can forget it. Seems they donít make or deliver them anymore unless you are a top FPJ client
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Old 25 August 2021, 08:23 PM   #754
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Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

Concerning the FPJ CB.... no idea if there is a big difference between a 2010 and 2019
If so.... maybe the 2019-2020 were ment for special clients cause afaik around that time they did not take extra orders and a bit later I was told only VIP could order one.
Also today.... if youíre on the list you can forget it. Seems they donít make or deliver them anymore unless you are a top FPJ client
I actually own 3 CB, 2011, 2019 and 2021.

I currently do not have excess to my 2011 and 2019 due to lockdown.. but the current 2021 I just received, the white seems to be more off-white/creamy than what I recalled from my other CBs.

I also agree what you mentioned very early and last batches are more collectible.
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Old 25 August 2021, 08:38 PM   #755
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Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?
True but this has more to do with 2019-2020 SS 5711s being still under warranty and often unworn IMO. Also the second hand could always be stopped with a little back pressure. Some sellers are asking for a little more for the very early 5711s as well with the low point in the 2010-2015 period.

One guy said I am lucky to own a rare 2018 transitional model with the latest dial but still the 324 movement. Doesn't matter as Patek buyers don't seem to care about such details. Lots of changes in 15 years - 315, 324, 330 movements, Geneva vs Patek seal, screws vs pins, various dials including the LED dial...

In the end any 5711 is trading at crazy prices as we speak just like the CB.
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Old 25 August 2021, 09:06 PM   #756
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True but this has more to do with 2019-2020 SS 5711s being still under warranty and often unworn IMO. Also the second hand could always be stopped with a little back pressure. Some sellers are asking for a little more for the very early 5711s as well with the low point in the 2010-2015 period.

One guy said I am lucky to own a rare 2018 transitional model with the latest dial but still the 324 movement. Doesn't matter as Patek buyers don't seem to care about such details. Lots of changes in 15 years - 315, 324, 330 movements, Geneva vs Patek seal, screws vs pins, various dials including the LED dial...

In the end any 5711 is trading at crazy prices as we speak just like the CB.
ts3 is 100% spot on with these observations. Only with Rolex is every nuanced design change in a model valued differently. With all other brands unless there is a major change, like a brass vs. gold movement, older models are worth less simply because they are older and likely to have more wear and be closer to needing a servicing. Owners of early 5711s have argued for the 315 movement and Geneva Seal making their versions special only to be met with yawns as newly minted blue dial 5711s command a premium.
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Old 25 August 2021, 09:09 PM   #757
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Is a lower serial number more desirable if there are known issues with the lower serial numbers?
I would imagine early serial numbers like 8, 88, and 888 would be worth more than other serial numbers whether higher or lower.
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Old 25 August 2021, 09:39 PM   #758
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agreed the hype market doesnít care about nuance like early vs late production in Patek but Journe literally numbers them sequentially which makes it a bit more easily identifiable. I think long term since there isnít much to differentiate them by visually collectors will value really early examples like the one sold naked here.

Then again what the hell do I know
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Old 25 August 2021, 11:13 PM   #759
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I think for CB as thereís no obvious Mach 2 (though some people have tried to argue for it) that later and newer is simply more desirable as itís fresher - unless the number is something like single digits then earlier wouldnít be more desirable.

However for basically all other FPJ watches Iíd think the earlier are more desirable, not least because theyíre nicer imo than current production versions (thinking octo lune, tourbilllon, resonance etc)


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Old 26 August 2021, 02:33 AM   #760
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Sometimes the first examples are more expensive sometimes the last

Take the 5711 steel... the 2019-2020 are definitely more expensive than a 2006-2008-....
Maybe because of the hacking second ?

Concerning the FPJ CB.... no idea if there is a big difference between a 2010 and 2019
If so.... maybe the 2019-2020 were ment for special clients cause afaik around that time they did not take extra orders and a bit later I was told only VIP could order one.
Also today.... if youíre on the list you can forget it. Seems they donít make or deliver them anymore unless you are a top FPJ client

How is a top client being defined? Someone whoís been with the brand since the early days or someone already owned a few pieces?

I think FPJ does not care where you got the pieces (boutique vs AD vs auction). Is that correct?
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Old 26 August 2021, 06:45 AM   #761
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At this price level, I will never pay for a Watch without paper.
I think I am not alone. That explains the discount.
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Old 26 August 2021, 08:55 AM   #762
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Iíd also literally never heard of loupethis until that post in this forum which I think explains the majority of the discountÖ if a CB is auctioned in a forest but no one was there to bid it, did it make a sound?

As for box and papers and provenance, FPJ can actually verify if itís lost or stolen before you purchase it if you can get your hands on the serial number so this would waylay concerns of no box and papers a lot I think. I would certainly take a 40k discount for no box and papers in this case I think haha thatís one expensive box.


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Old 3 October 2021, 09:34 PM   #763
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So lately I noticed 15 CBs in C24 with prices decreasing 15%. Overlooking these price for a sec, whatís up with the offloading from owners?

Any ideas why so many out there now? Oddly no Resonance s?
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Old 3 October 2021, 09:51 PM   #764
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Realizing that the bubble will burst and getting out of position probably.
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Old 4 October 2021, 12:22 AM   #765
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So lately I noticed 15 CBs in C24 with prices decreasing 15%. Overlooking these price for a sec, whatís up with the offloading from owners?

Any ideas why so many out there now? Oddly no Resonance s?

As Iíve said before I feel thereís just a lot of them in circulation relative to other Journe references. Name an automatic Journe thatís been produced unchanged in greater numbers.
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Old 5 October 2021, 10:21 PM   #766
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Meant to say mechanical ie) non quartz
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Old 9 October 2021, 06:28 PM   #767
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As Iíve said before I feel thereís just a lot of them in circulation relative to other Journe references. Name an automatic Journe thatís been produced unchanged in greater numbers.
I think CS are most certainly produced in greater numbers
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Old 9 October 2021, 07:12 PM   #768
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I actually own 3 CB, 2011, 2019 and 2021.

I currently do not have excess to my 2011 and 2019 due to lockdown.. but the current 2021 I just received, the white seems to be more off-white/creamy than what I recalled from my other CBs.

I also agree what you mentioned very early and last batches are more collectible.
Damn, you trying to sell any?
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Old 9 October 2021, 10:26 PM   #769
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I think CS are most certainly produced in greater numbers

Yeah prob the platinum and rose gold with the whitened guillochť silver dials. They been around what 17 years. The CB has to be up there though. Definitely not low total production by FPJ standards seeing as the formula hasnít really been tweaked from what I can tell over the years. Im sure an expert could tell me thereís some variances.
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Old 10 October 2021, 04:26 AM   #770
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Based on serial numbers of recently produced CBs and CSs, my guesstimate is that there are around 1600 CBs and 2000 CSs.

But the CSs include several different variants (RG, PT, and different dial colors). And CBs are all the same.

So as GB-man implied a few posts above, the CB seems to be the most produced automatic Journe reference.
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Old 10 October 2021, 06:17 AM   #771
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Automatic?
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Old 10 October 2021, 12:23 PM   #772
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Automatic?

Lol I made that mistake as well. Iím so use to saying automatic as shorthand for mechanical. Silly and wrong of course. Particularly when Iíve been buying and loving so many manual winds lately.
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