All blue GMT fake

[Filipão]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

I still think we should gather a bunch on electronic signatures , send a letter off to Rolex requesting they conduct an investigation into how if at all legit, the Blueberry insert came into existence. I still don’t think it’s an unreasonable request. Someone here or abroad that someone knows who can hold such influence to persuade such and investigation. If it really is legit, let’s get some documentation and put this too bed. One shouldn’t quail to call a fake a fake.

I'd sign it immediately.

[canadianswiss]

Originally Posted by roh123

He’s an old time diamond district dealer. Well reputated. Orchi is an old time WIS gone troll. This whole story is tiresome where no one is winning. It doesn’t really help the hobby either.

Orchi is controversial but he is not a Troll.
A lot of his calls are 100% correct, his knowledge is impressive.
Nobody is always right, so he makes mistakes, just like anyone else.
His call on a blueberry insert is correct, that insert is not a Rolex part.
If not for anything else those inserts are made totally different way, extremely poor, nothing like high quality inserts made by Rolex from early 50’s to today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

Exactly my thoughts. It looks to be an estimate that’s been conveniently cropped. So all it’s stating is the condition the watch has been received in. It’s not a confirmation of anything. The rest of the estimate would be interesting, but that hasn’t been posted for a reason I suspect.




The word special is interesting. ‘Special flip lock clasp’? What can be special about a flip lock clasp? I’m taking that as not original to the watch. ‘Special 24 hour bezel’ You can see where I’m going with this.

Have a look at these inserts:




There is no doubt what so ever that these are fake in my opinion.

Genuine bezel inserts are produced by first anodising the raw aluminium bezel, pad printing a mask for the numbers, and then dyed. If the numbers on the bezel are scratched on a genuine insert, all you’ll see underneath is the aluminium colour, and NOT the colour of the dyed insert. A far more tolerant approach to wear.

The inserts above have been anodised, dyed and then had the numbers pad printed on top. Not the way it’s done by any manufacturer Rolex have used in 50+ years.

I had them in my hand, I can tell you that this is not the case,
in the past I discolored one (many years ago when they were worth very little),
all the blue paint went away, but the numbers remained perfect in silver color on faded metal,
so In my opinion these first bezels with defects are at the beginning of production / proof of printing and
the anodization process has not taken in the areas where the numbers are defective.
(it is sufficient that under the surface in which the paint is to be attached the metal is slightly not well cleaned or greasy and it can happen)

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

I still think we should gather a bunch on electronic signatures , send a letter off to Rolex requesting they conduct an investigation into how if at all legit, the Blueberry insert came into existence. I still don’t think it’s an unreasonable request. Someone here or abroad that someone knows who can hold such influence to persuade such and investigation. If it really is legit, let’s get some documentation and put this too bed. One shouldn’t quail to call a fake a fake.

It would be enough for Ellen DeGeneres to ask Rolex,
when such an important international Celebrity moves, I think something they do,
if we ""latest arrivals and very normal peoples "ask them , they don't take us into consideration,
you can do the petitions you want, not whether it is labor law or human rights, they are a private
company without obligations towards us and they can also tell you that you can live the same
without them telling you whether in the past or not they ordered a blue bezel
(or rather I think it also annoys him to reveal his inner things, I worked for two years at
Ferrari cars and from what I see more a company is a very famous brand to protect
and protect and less wants to tell you their inner things)



or Danile Dae Kim ?

this is the only way to have an answer from Rolex
if some Vip very known ask to them

https://www.hodinkee.com/videos/talk...daniel-dae-kim

[jaisonline]

Originally Posted by springer

I see nothing on the aakviper document that you posted indicating that it is a service receipt. Actually, I'm not quite sure what it is - but my best guess would be that, if it is genuine, it is a letter documenting the receipt of a GMT which contains a description of the watch.

That AAKVIPER doc is standard Rolex watch appraisal for insurance purposes. Rolex uses the word “special” when describing the 24 hour GMT bezels on all GMT appraisals I've seen.

I also like Jake's research below.
https://www.rolexmagazine.com/search...lueberry%20GMT

At the end of the day, if collectors like yourself, Lee, Mondani, others haven’t seen blue GMTs in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990, etc... when it adds to the belief these are frankin watches. Only folks I see talking up blue inserts are resellers and the folks who purchased them at a premium.

[RolexPassion]

....

[jaisonline]

Given Ben's body language and statements, he knows the watch is a frankinwatch special. Jake writes about this video in the link I provided above.
Even Dae Kim seems to acknowledge he could have been taken for a ride with that watch but he likes it. Liking the watch is the important thing.

It's sad for everyone involved though paying a steep premium for insert which has no legit history like other inserts.

Seems like every time a Blueberry insert story is debunked, another one one surfaces trying to legitimize it. E.g. service inserts made available to customers and then it was made only available in the Middle East, etc...

Who knows at this point. Bottom line is I trust the folks who collected GMTs for many decades over the auction houses and resellers.

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

or Danile Dae Kim ?

this is the only way to have an answer from Rolex
if some Vip very known ask to them

https://www.hodinkee.com/videos/talk...daniel-dae-kim

[79280_116520]

I think all the blueberry collectors should return their watches back to "the dealer" they bought them from. If the dealer won't accept the watches that they sold, then you have your answer.

[BigBlue1]

Hey some still believe in Santa Clause.

[RolexPassion]

I guess that generating this kind of crisis is completely meaningless,
above all it would give it to Orchi (its only purpose is to put these sellers against their customers).
No one can be obliged to take back a watch without there being any real and tangible proof
(I do not say that ridiculous, false or incorrect letter presented by Orchi, I say a real proof).
Realistic proof is needed to make such serious claims and actions against a seller!
Don't go bullshit like this. You demand 100% tangible proof to declare these bezels as genuine,
and you have no money at stake, so on the other hand it is right that to put a seller in the situation
of giving an immediate repayment there is even more serious evidence and undeniable.
And many times owner give back a watch in worst conditions than when bought .

Let's be serious!

[RolexPassion]

as usual these dramas set up by Orchi do not bring anything good to anyone, they only put negativity and pessimism on everyone,
a good seller with a respected reputation is immediately pointed out as a murderer, a client who may not have a psychologically strong
character gets immediately taken by a thousand doubts, because most of the people outside the matter
(especially many critycs always ready to point the finger that they know very little and have two watches in all)
and so he is in a hurry to sell on the fly as if he had a shit in hand, and often it turns out later that maybe everything was ok,
and perhaps the hack sells quickly at low cost a piece that then in the future can no longer find or will have to pay double
if it is later acknowledged as genuine.
Nobody gains anything except the various trolls and Orchi that poor guy enjoys only these situations here,
and you making so much clamor fall right in his net.


Attention I say this thing without any involvement,
since in the past I sold some but never anybody came back to complain or ask for reimbursement even in these days
(given that customers are intelligent people who are not brainwashed by Orchi and they know what they bought)

At the same time, besides my own that I keep in the collection,
I am treating to bring home another one in this period,

then we will see if time will prove me right or not

[037]

Originally Posted by sillo38

For real.

What’s the back story on this guy anyway? From the way he carries himself on social media he seems like a bozo.

He coined the Buckley dial due to collecting so many of them. Other than that I don't know much about him other than being a dealer/collector. But, his IG feed is a solid 15% cringe worthy.

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

Hey some still believe in Santa Clause.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... you're telling me he's not real?

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

as usual these dramas set up by Orchi do not bring anything good to anyone, they only put negativity and pessimism on everyone,
a good seller with a respected reputation is immediately pointed out as a murderer, a client who may not have a psychologically strong
character gets immediately taken by a thousand doubts, because most of the people outside the matter
(especially many critycs always ready to point the finger that they know very little and have two watches in all)
and so he is in a hurry to sell on the fly as if he had a shit in hand, and often it turns out later that maybe everything was ok,
and perhaps the hack sells quickly at low cost a piece that then in the future can no longer find or will have to pay double
if it is later acknowledged as genuine.
Nobody gains anything except the various trolls and Orchi that poor guy enjoys only these situations here,
and you making so much clamor fall right in his net.


Attention I say this thing without any involvement,
since in the past I sold some but never anybody came back to complain or ask for reimbursement even in these days
(given that customers are intelligent people who are not brainwashed by Orchi and they know what they bought)

At the same time, besides my own that I keep in the collection,
I am treating to bring home another one in this period,

then we will see if time will prove me right or not

Just to be clear, your interest/passion in this argument is based on the fact that you own, and have owned blue inserts? Or, did I misread that?

[pablofields]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

as usual these dramas set up by Orchi do not bring anything good to anyone, they only put negativity and pessimism on everyone,
a good seller with a respected reputation is immediately pointed out as a murderer, a client who may not have a psychologically strong
character gets immediately taken by a thousand doubts, because most of the people outside the matter
(especially many critycs always ready to point the finger that they know very little and have two watches in all)
and so he is in a hurry to sell on the fly as if he had a shit in hand, and often it turns out later that maybe everything was ok,
and perhaps the hack sells quickly at low cost a piece that then in the future can no longer find or will have to pay double
if it is later acknowledged as genuine.
Nobody gains anything except the various trolls and Orchi that poor guy enjoys only these situations here,
and you making so much clamor fall right in his net.


Attention I say this thing without any involvement,
since in the past I sold some but never anybody came back to complain or ask for reimbursement even in these days
(given that customers are intelligent people who are not brainwashed by Orchi and they know what they bought)

At the same time, besides my own that I keep in the collection,
I am treating to bring home another one in this period,

then we will see if time will prove me right or not

Quite frankly the only person in this thread and the one on VRF that reminds me of Orchi is......you.

[gsg]

… and have sourced/sold blue inserts and probably plans to keep selling them in the future.
I suggest you go to VRF to read the lengthy thread on the subject there .

As it was mentioned just a few posts back, at this stage, it is only dealers and those clients that have been left holding the bag that are pushing to keep the blue bezel myth alive (understandably so I would add)

[gsg]

The problem with the blue bezels has completely demolished for me the "buy the seller" mantra. Mostly every large dealer has traded these at one time or another. It is a dog eat dog world in the vintage market right now. Every man for himself, if there is money to be made...

[zapokee]

Bored of the Rings...

[roh123]

Originally Posted by gsg

The problem with the blue bezels has completely demolished for me the "buy the seller" mantra. Mostly every large dealer has traded these at one time or another. It is a dog eat dog world in the vintage market right now. Every man for himself, if there is money to be made...

Buy the seller has never been a good mantra to begin with. How could anyone know what happened to watches before they got them if they didn’t own them from the start? It is impossible for people to know if the watches were put-together or whatever by a previous owner. Collectors collect and dealers deal to the best of their knowledge. Regardless of their moral, knowledge level or whatever they still need make judgement calls on what they buy and sell. There’s no way to know just by trusting the person that sells. The best possible way to buy is to know what you are buying. Not from who. A dubiois seller can sometimes have great things and a welltrusted one can sometimes have problems. Buying the seller is naive.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

I had them in my hand, I can tell you that this is not the case,
in the past I discolored one (many years ago when they were worth very little),
all the blue paint went away, but the numbers remained perfect in silver color on faded metal,
so In my opinion these first bezels with defects are at the beginning of production / proof of printing and
the anodization process has not taken in the areas where the numbers are defective.
(it is sufficient that under the surface in which the paint is to be attached the metal is slightly not well cleaned or greasy and it can happen)

That’s not how bezel inserts are anodised and never has been. They have never been dyed and had the numerals printed on after. The bezels are dyed at the last stage of the process, after the numerals have been printed on with a clear mask. The manufacturers of these inserts had been doing this for 20 years before these bezels were supposedly produced.

Even if it were a prototype, which is frankly nonsense, there would be no blue underneath the numbers and they wouldn’t chip. That’s the whole point of the anodising, it’s reasonably hard wearing and is impossible to chip/flake like that without damage to the base metal. The numbers are printed on top of the dye in the inserts I posted.

If it was a case of the metal being dirty, the blue would be affected and shown the base metal as it’s the last stage of the process. They wouldn’t have made it out the factory anyway and would have been in the scrap bin.

Those inserts in my last post were pulled directly from JB’s Instagram. They are without a doubt fake.

Find me a genuine 1675 insert with the numbers chipped or scratched with the colour of the insert showing beneath?

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

Hey some still believe in Santa Clause.

Absolutely and the Abominable Snowman.

[964RS]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

Attention I say this thing without any involvement,

since in the past I sold some but never anybody came back to complain or ask for reimbursement even in these days
(given that customers are intelligent people who are not brainwashed by Orchi and they know what they bought)

At the same time, besides my own that I keep in the collection,
I am treating to bring home another one in this period,

then we will see if time will prove me right or not

That my friend is a contradiction in terms!!

Of course you have an involvement in defending them, you sold and own them, your liability in them actually being fake is probably close to or over 6 figures!

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by roh123

He’s an old time diamond district dealer. Well reputated. Orchi is an old time WIS gone troll. This whole story is tiresome where no one is winning. It doesn’t really help the hobby either.

Orchi is opinionated and passionate about watches and not afraid to speak his mind. I wouldn't call him a troll though he did have a knack of rubbing (some) people up the wrong way

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

That’s not how bezel inserts are anodised and never has been. They have never been dyed and had the numerals printed on after. The bezels are dyed at the last stage of the process, after the numerals have been printed on with a clear mask. The manufacturers of these inserts had been doing this for 20 years before these bezels were supposedly produced.

Even if it were a prototype, which is frankly nonsense, there would be no blue underneath the numbers and they wouldn’t chip. That’s the whole point of the anodising, it’s reasonably hard wearing and is impossible to chip/flake like that without damage to the base metal. The numbers are printed on top of the dye in the inserts I posted.

If it was a case of the metal being dirty, the blue would be affected and shown the base metal as it’s the last stage of the process. They wouldn’t have made it out the factory anyway and would have been in the scrap bin.

Those inserts in my last post were pulled directly from JB’s Instagram. They are without a doubt fake.

Find me a genuine 1675 insert with the numbers chipped or scratched with the colour of the insert showing beneath?

I agree with you and already asked this. I believe the response was (paraphrased) “the number isn’t losing paint, it actually has too much blue paint on it, making the blue paint partially obscure the silver number”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[roh123]

Originally Posted by 1675-David

Orchi is opinionated and passionate about watches and not afraid to speak his mind. I wouldn't call him a troll though he did have a knack of rubbing (some) people up the wrong way

He sees ghosts everywhere. It is not healthy for the hobby.

Also; he is not very consistent. He bashes ”big time” dealers and auction houses and he protects some of the dirtiest in the business just because they are friends or help him sell his stuff. He has zero credability as long as he stands by AQ and all the crap they sell. The guy is not what he used to be. Nowdays he is just a grumpy old man on a mission to discredit those he doesn’t like. It is very sad to see.

Personally I always liked him but it is a long time since I bothered to listen. He doesn’t seem well these days.

[1675-David]

Originally Posted by roh123

He sees ghosts everywhere. It is not healthy for the hobby.

Also; he is not very consistent. He bashes ”big time” dealers and auction houses and he protects some of the dirtiest in the business just because they are friends or help him sell his stuff. He has zero credability as long as he stands by AQ and all the crap they sell. The guy is not what he used to be. Nowdays he is just a grumpy old man on a mission to discredit those he doesn’t like. It is very sad to see.

Personally I always liked him but it is a long time since I bothered to listen. He doesn’t seem well these days.

That sounds like a shame indeed, I only remember him from this forum as I'm not active elsewhere else on the internet watchisphere. I always found him to be a treasure of knowledge and was saddened when he got kicked off the board, he helped me when I bought my first 1675 for which I'll always be glad for.

Errm Buddy Orchi, if you are reading this post, sound like you need to get your sh*t together!

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by roh123

Buy the seller has never been a good mantra to begin with. How could anyone know what happened to watches before they got them if they didn’t own them from the start? It is impossible for people to know if the watches were put-together or whatever by a previous owner. Collectors collect and dealers deal to the best of their knowledge. Regardless of their moral, knowledge level or whatever they still need make judgement calls on what they buy and sell. There’s no way to know just by trusting the person that sells. The best possible way to buy is to know what you are buying. Not from who. A dubiois seller can sometimes have great things and a welltrusted one can sometimes have problems. Buying the seller is naive.

-Always- immediately send vintage purchases off to someone like the Ridleys. I sent my red off after buying it and the reputable seller was put on the hook by Bob for some significant corrections/repairs (Bob mediated).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[uncleluck]

Originally Posted by southtexas

I agree with you and already asked this. I believe the response was (paraphrased) “the number isn’t losing paint, it actually has too much blue paint on it, making the blue paint partially obscure the silver number”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That’s how they look to me. When you look at the zoom of that 8 it looks more like blue over the silver where it shouldn’t be, you can see the feint outline underneath.

People keep saying it’s missing/chipped silver but it looks like additional blue over where it should have been shielded out.

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by roh123

He’s an old time diamond district dealer. Well reputated. Orchi is an old time WIS gone troll. This whole story is tiresome where no one is winning. It doesn’t really help the hobby either.

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Just to be clear, your interest/passion in this argument is based on the fact that you own, and have owned blue inserts? Or, did I misread that?

yes of course

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by roh123

Buy the seller has never been a good mantra to begin with. How could anyone know what happened to watches before they got them if they didn’t own them from the start? It is impossible for people to know if the watches were put-together or whatever by a previous owner. Collectors collect and dealers deal to the best of their knowledge. Regardless of their moral, knowledge level or whatever they still need make judgement calls on what they buy and sell. There’s no way to know just by trusting the person that sells. The best possible way to buy is to know what you are buying. Not from who. A dubiois seller can sometimes have great things and a welltrusted one can sometimes have problems. Buying the seller is naive.

exatcly , 100% agree
i hated some sellers from year , then arrived in their shop a unique piece impossible to find and i bought in 1 second .....
You search the impossible watch, and go to buy where you find , you have not to marriage with the watchmaker

[RolexPassion]

Originally Posted by uncleluck

That’s how they look to me. When you look at the zoom of that 8 it looks more like blue over the silver where it shouldn’t be, you can see the feint outline underneath.

People keep saying it’s missing/chipped silver but it looks like additional blue over where it should have been shielded out.