All blue GMT fake

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

No need, man. That one’s been resolved




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There's a glaring omission in that lineup of usual suspects. Consider...

Eisenhower wore his Rolex DJ in office and wasn't assassinated.

JFK had a Rolex Day Date but he never wore it (sporting Omega, Cartier, Bulova etc instead) and was assassinated.

LBJ wore his Rolex Day Date in office and wasn't assassinated.

Combine those facts with how notoriously secretive Rolex is about their operations, and one has to wonder...

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by CRM114

There's a glaring omission in that lineup of usual suspects. Consider...

Eisenhower wore his Rolex DJ in office and wasn't assassinated.

JFK had a Rolex Day Date but he never wore it (sporting Omega, Cartier, Bulova etc instead) and was assassinated.

LBJ wore his Rolex Day Date in office and wasn't assassinated.

Combine those facts with how notoriously secretive Rolex is about their operations, and one has to wonder...

I was going to mention this too!

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

This whole kerfuffle reminds me of the Daytona 'Texas Dial' thing. I don't think I've heard one word about them since the two big dogs settled their lawsuit.

Whatever happened to them? Buried at sea? Still in safes?

Looks like Antiquorum sold one in 2018 and listed the dial as "custom-made." Seems everyone has given up on the dream if even Antiquorum admits it

I agree though, this whole thing reminds me of Texas dials. Then, people regarded unapproved parts (even theoretically being made with real Singer cliches) as fake. And now some dealers want to say "you can't prove they weren't just made and sold out the back door at Singer!" as if that's as good as "real." The narrative seems to keep shifting from the believers.

If these are all service parts, as the theory goes, why have we never seen a single plastic clamshell parts case for one? And if they're not service parts, why didn't anyone see one before 2000 or so? 🤷

[037]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

If these are all service parts, as the theory goes, why have we never seen a single plastic clamshell parts case for one? And if they're not service parts, why didn't anyone see one before 2000 or so? ��

Wouldn't they have been stored in a tin, not plastic? And, what if they were never stored as service parts?

How do we know no one has seen them before 2000? Has that been established as fact or is it just as much hearsay as any other story behind these inserts?

Just playing devil's advocate here since there isn't much else going on right now.

[dhknola]

These bezels are absolutely fake. The sellers did a hell of a marketing job by letting them drip versus flood out. Really glad the truth is out that these are just junk.

[roh123]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Looks like Antiquorum sold one in 2018 and listed the dial as "custom-made." Seems everyone has given up on the dream if even Antiquorum admits it

Well.. Does anyone expect good things at AQ? I expect problems on basically every watch they list. They sold off a ton of Rinaldi dials as well and first after being called out they called them ”custom” instead of all fake. It’s funny how people bash Phillips, Christies and Sorhebys when AQ basically commits fraud time and time again. They are worst of worst. Dealers included.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by 037

Wouldn't they have been stored in a tin, not plastic? And, what if they were never stored as service parts?

How do we know no one has seen them before 2000? Has that been established as fact or is it just as much hearsay as any other story behind these inserts?

Just playing devil's advocate here since there isn't much else going on right now.

There's none so blind as those that don't want to see. Sorry but they are all fakes.

[Watchcollectables]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

Did you escape through a back door from a research and development department?

Singer was an external supplier, a private company and the agreements were not with a thousand contracts and footnotes like today ......

Do you shut me up a color proof, after having done it you don't like it and you don't confirm the production?
Well , in the test I produced about 400 instead of the 150 you asked for and I sell these 400 to whoever I want and when I like ....
They didn't have to be accountable to Rolex if Rolex refused to produce such bezel

If I could make out what your are trying to demonstrate id make a fair and logical reply . thanks

[037]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

There's none so blind as those that don't want to see. Sorry but they are all fakes.

Perhaps but this viewpoint could go both ways. For every person who claims they're fake and has no definitive evidence, an equal number of people will claim they're real with no definitive evidence. I'm not blind. I'm simply enjoying the debate.

[gsg]

It is the believers who need to produce any tangible evidence that would support their claim that these are Rolex sponsored spare parts. In the absence of any real evidence, I will continue to believe these are fake!

Originally Posted by 037

Perhaps but this viewpoint could go both ways. For every person who claims they're fake and has no definitive evidence, an equal number of people will claim they're real with no definitive evidence. I'm not blind. I'm simply enjoying the debate.

[Fredrik]

I am still curious about this story. I personally have a hard time believing any of the stories floating around about where they come from.

But, lets compare them to a similar item, the 60min bezel on the milsubs. What if no one knew about them and suddenly someone found a pile of them leftover at a service department in the UK. Some claim that the blueberry was i military special. As far as I know the 60min bezel is not seen anywhere except in MOD papers? No part number, no pictures in service manuals? The lack of supporting papers could be explained like that.

Of course, we do know about the milsubs because of the guys being issued them, and supporting letters from Rolex UK for instance. The complete lack of anything like that for the blueberry bezel inserts is what makes me think that they are at best some mistakes delivered to a service department somewhere in the 80s where they accidentally anodized the whole thing in blue that someone found 20 years ago.

We have a member here who a few years ago commented on them saying he had a bunch many years ago with a picture of them as far as i remember?

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by 037

Perhaps but this viewpoint could go both ways. For every person who claims they're fake and has no definitive evidence, an equal number of people will claim they're real with no definitive evidence. I'm not blind. I'm simply enjoying the debate.

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

I am still curious about this story. I personally have a hard time believing any of the stories floating around about where they come from.

But, lets compare them to a similar item, the 60min bezel on the milsubs. What if no one knew about them and suddenly someone found a pile of them leftover at a service department in the UK. Some claim that the blueberry was i military special. As far as I know the 60min bezel is not seen anywhere except in MOD papers? No part number, no pictures in service manuals? The lack of supporting papers could be explained like that.

Of course, we do know about the milsubs because of the guys being issued them, and supporting letters from Rolex UK for instance. The complete lack of anything like that for the blueberry bezel inserts is what makes me think that they are at best some mistakes delivered to a service department somewhere in the 80s where they accidentally anodized the whole thing in blue that someone found 20 years ago.

We have a member here who a few years ago commented on them saying he had a bunch many years ago with a picture of them as far as i remember?

60 minute bezel insert DID in fact have a part code --- I think it might have been "5517 ac noir" but I had one supplied and fitted shortly after the millennium to one of my military 5513s and it is clearly specified on the Rolex UK paperwork.

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

[dhknola]

Originally Posted by roh123

Well.. Does anyone expect good things at AQ? I expect problems on basically every watch they list. They sold off a ton of Rinaldi dials as well and first after being called out they called them ”custom” instead of all fake. It’s funny how people bash Phillips, Christies and Sorhebys when AQ basically commits fraud time and time again. They are worst of worst. Dealers included.

AQ is so bad that I think fraud and bad watches are just part of their DNA now; AQ is where watches that get turned down seem to go.

With that said, I was intrigued by the Patek Proto that sold for 400k that apparently Patek wanted back.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/pr...iquorum-geneva

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

60 minute bezel insert DID in fact have a part code --- I think it might have been "5517 ac noir" but I had one supplied and fitted shortly after the millennium to one of my military 5513s and it is clearly specified on the Rolex UK paperwork.

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

Oh, good to know!

[1665fan]

Damn that’s sweet, the Patek not the fake insert

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by RolexPassion

Did you escape through a back door from a research and development department?

Singer was an external supplier, a private company and the agreements were not with a thousand contracts and footnotes like today ......

Do you shut me up a color proof, after having done it you don't like it and you don't confirm the production?
Well , in the test I produced about 400 instead of the 150 you asked for and I sell these 400 to whoever I want and when I like ....
They didn't have to be accountable to Rolex if Rolex refused to produce such bezel

Does that mean that you do not believe the story that they came from RSC NY and RSC Abu Dhabi?


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[steeevvvooo]

Fascinating reading. I can't understand what possible reason the military would have for a blue bezel?! Someone please enlighten me as to why this was even a plausible story...

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[79280_116520]

Originally Posted by steeevvvooo

Fascinating reading. I can't understand what possible reason the military would have for a blue bezel?! Someone please enlighten me as to why this was even a plausible story...

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Not the military, mafioso dealers' greed...

When it sounds like a duck, talks like a duck...it must be a chicken! NOT!

[dhknola]

Yeah, this Tuscany Rose guy has lost all credibility to me, and he is doubling down the fake inserts are real.

[gsg]

He is on the hook for quite a bit of money if the inserts are proven fake, don't expect any acknowledgement from him...

Originally Posted by dhknola

Yeah, this Tuscany Rose guy has lost all credibility to me, and he is doubling down the fake inserts are real.

[Fredrik]

A couple of old threads regarding this, first one with a note about the Abu Dhabi RSC:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=52069

Then the one with the pictures in the last page:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513068

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by steeevvvooo

Fascinating reading. I can't understand what possible reason the military would have for a blue bezel?! Someone please enlighten me as to why this was even a plausible story...

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The uae watches were not for issue to troops .. they were presentation / gift watches ... any use of a blue bezel would ( and I’m not saying it was ) have been purely because someone liked the look of it and maybe wanted to make them look different not for a pragmatic military reason

[pablofields]

Originally Posted by jedly1

No Jason I didnt directly say those words as the whole jist of the conversation was ‘we have to be careful as there are many fake ones around ( no surprise there ) .... if they simply didn’t exist that conversation makes zero sense ...

I should preface by saying I first took it to Rolex Australia who , as they usually do with valuable pieces before accepting them for service thouroughly inspected , stripped and sent detailed macro photos to Geneva for approval to service ..... at which point Geneva said it’d have to come to them for inspection of the bezel before it could be done with that bezel on. .... again makes little sense if they coulda said we never made blue bezels ‘

On the other , question asked ... total radio silenced far ....... I feel for Isabelle Humm if she did write that letter , which still no one has commented on why it’s been removed by the original poster , she may be in a whole heap of trouble with the Rolex lawyers as AAkvipers isn’t the only one that has previously been accepted for service ( and documented ) ... that’s a whole liability issue that as you well know Jas they’ll bend over backwards to avoid .... hence my surprise as to the existence of that letter ( regardless of of its true or not )

Jed,

Can you share your own assessment of the bezel you sent to Geneva? Did it look to your highly trained eye like the blue bezels that continue to be defended by some as genuine? Was it from one of the same sources as the bezels being debated? Can you share the detailed macros you provided Rolex Geneva?

It would certainly be helpful for the discussion to have a public example of a blue bezel that presumably must have been very compelling regarding its authenticity to warrant a trip to Geneva, yet was found by Rolex not to be so.

Best

Paul

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by pablofields

Jed,

Can you share your own assessment of the bezel you sent to Geneva? Did it look to your highly trained eye like the blue bezels that continue to be defended by some as genuine? Was it from one of the same sources as the bezels being debated? Can you share the detailed macros you provided Rolex Geneva?

It would certainly be helpful for the discussion to have a public example of a blue bezel that presumably must have been very compelling regarding its authenticity to warrant a trip to Geneva, yet was found by Rolex not to be so.

Best

Paul

That would make for an interesting comparison in this fruit saga.


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[Gmt21]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

A couple of old threads regarding this, first one with a note about the Abu Dhabi RSC:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=52069

Then the one with the pictures in the last page:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=513068

In the second string two of the regarded experts in this forum concur that these were available as service parts from RSC up until about 2000. 🤔

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by southtexas

That would make for an interesting comparison in this fruit saga.


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Too true!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Gmt21

In the second string two of the regarded experts in this forum concur that these were available as service parts from RSC up until about 2000. ��

Specifically, Greekbum, who stated rather unequivocally that the blue inserts all came from RSC, and whom, I don’t think, has weighed-in on this thread yet.

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Gmt21

In the second string two of the regarded experts in this forum concur that these were available as service parts from RSC up until about 2000. 🤔

Very interesting to go back and read that thread now.

[sillo]

Originally Posted by Gmt21

In the second string two of the regarded experts in this forum concur that these were available as service parts from RSC up until about 2000.

There’s even claims in there of documentation, but as usual nothing ever surfaces.