Is it just me or has there been a general decline in Panerai luster?

[malnik]

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

There have been many long-time collectors moving away from Panerai in the past year. Why? Because they keep coming out with new versions of what were supposed to be LE/SE models. They killed their own secondary market values. Personally, I still like Panerai and I think there will always be a place for one in my collection.

I'm digging up an old thread. It's the Q4 of 2016 now and Panerai is definitely in the decline. The secondary market value is dropping and I'm loving it! I've been eyeing on a particular "LE" modeling. One online reseller has it and has been on his listings for years. Today I checked and the new listing price is 20% drop from last year! Maybe it's time for me to finally pick it up.

[nick c]

Originally Posted by malnik

I'm digging up an old thread. It's the Q4 of 2016 now and Panerai is definitely in the decline. The secondary market value is dropping and I'm loving it! I've been eyeing on a particular "LE" modeling. One online reseller has it and has been on his listings for years. Today I checked and the new listing price is 20% drop from last year! Maybe it's time for me to finally pick it up.

Now it's the time just before Christmas go for it

[p_mcgee]

Yep I can confirm that I took quite a beating selling my 233 in the secondary market. Even though its a popular reference, there are hundreds of Panerai out there for sale & hate to say it but they all look damn near the same. And this is from a Panerai fan.

Good news is that the VC I just picked up had the same problem so the flip turned out to be a wash.

[JP Chestnut]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Richemont keeps churning out the same old crap year after year....

Their sales are also less than impressive. maybe Panerai has become a dog...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

This man is looking like Nostradamus at this point.

[chemistman]

Seems like you can get the base models so much cheaper than before, stock is everywhere. Looking at the sales forum elsewhere and you see lots of limited editions around. I think panerai has gone to the point where they've made too many variances and the exclusivity is gone. Still beautiful watches though and still have one myself.

[Speed]

Well, I'm still loving my 312 and the variety of straps I have. That's not considered "base" is it?

Would love a titanium version of the 111 - mode escapes me now... but I'm pretty set. If I ever got another it would *have* to be have 24mm lugs so I could leverage my straps.

[fullcourt]

nope, loving all of mine and looking forward to many more in the future.

[korneevy]

Panerai market has been in nosedive for good 2-3 years, but in the last 10 months it has intensified. I offloaded all of my PAMs bar 127, and took a good 30-50% hit even on the prices I paid for used stock, which I considered quite acceptable a few years back. Also took months and months of finding a buyer, as I live given up trying to sell or trade them to dealers in Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo (you see, I've tried that hard to get rid of these things, haha). Not sure if the market bottomed though - the demand is very sluggish still but deals are to be had if you still into Panerai styling. HK seems to be a particularly good spot for bargain hunting, there are literally stores filled with panerai who are keen to move them.

[chemistman]

Originally Posted by korneevy

Panerai market has been in nosedive for good 2-3 years, but in the last 10 months it has intensified. I offloaded all of my PAMs bar 127, and took a good 30-50% hit even on the prices I paid for used stock, which I considered quite acceptable a few years back. Also took months and months of finding a buyer, as I live given up trying to sell or trade them to dealers in Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo (you see, I've tried that hard to get rid of these things, haha). Not sure if the market bottomed though - the demand is very sluggish still but deals are to be had if you still into Panerai styling. HK seems to be a particularly good spot for bargain hunting, there are literally stores filled with panerai who are keen to move them.

Hope this didn't hit you too hard. I would never want to be in that situation, but who knows, it could happen to any of the brand.

Really loved panerai but with the direction they are going these days I'll be buying up some old models soon, especially the ETA ones.

[korneevy]

Originally Posted by chemistman

Hope this didn't hit you too hard. I would never want to be in that situation, but who knows, it could happen to any of the brand.



Really loved panerai but with the direction they are going these days I'll be buying up some old models soon, especially the ETA ones.

Mate I did cried a little, yeah I did.

On 4 mid-tier pieces I've lost close to $10K as compared to what I would have got a few years back, which means a lot for me - could have been a nice deposit on a VC Oversea chrono I'd love to get, or PP Nautilus. Well, live and learn - I lost faith when they stated to release annually 399 variations of every previous model ever made, and flooded market with over-production capacity that in turn, flew though the back doors of AD and killed the resale value of most of their "modern" collection book. Hell, I would have sold the 127 too, but I was getting half-serious offers in $10-12K area, and that's $6K less than what I paid for it 8 years ago, I've worn the damn thing about a dozen of times... anyhow, I've decided to keep it forever now, but shows how much value drop one should accept with the brand, even on more collectable pieces.

I don't see this changing until the sack the CEO a have a major come to Jesus moment, rethinking their positioning, pricing and distribution channels strategy. Let's hope they figure that one out before driving the brand value into the wall. Amen!


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[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by korneevy

Mate I did cried a little, yeah I did.

Hell, I would have sold the 127 too, but I was getting half-serious offers in $10-12K area, and that's $6K less than what I paid for it 8 years ago, I've worn the damn thing about a dozen of times... anyhow, I've decided to keep it forever now, but shows how much value drop one should accept with the brand, even on more collectable pieces.

I don't see this changing until the sack the CEO a have a major come to Jesus moment, rethinking their positioning, pricing and distribution channels strategy. Let's hope they figure that one out before driving the brand value into the wall. Amen!


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you bought the 127 at the 'peak' 16-18k and now are complaining about the price drop, lol. the 127 sold new for ~$6k

sorry, buying watches as an 'investment' is not prudent, and although the secondary market right now is a bit soft the bargains are amazing. i've made a few purchases and am happy i have.

the distribution channels have been an issue and to be honest i'd rather have everything go through their boutiques and minimize the amount of pieces available on the secondary market, but don't think that's realistic. an ad can provide a discount the boutique can't and that does cause issues regarding pricing models etc...

love the 5 i own and hoping to buy a few more next year.

enjoy your 127, it's an iconic piece and the price may even go back up again....

[korneevy]

Originally Posted by fullcourt

you bought the 127 at the 'peak' 16-18k and now are complaining about the price drop, lol. the 127 sold new for ~$6k

sorry, buying watches as an 'investment' is not prudent, and although the secondary market right now is a bit soft the bargains are amazing. i've made a few purchases and am happy i have.

the distribution channels have been an issue and to be honest i'd rather have everything go through their boutiques and minimize the amount of pieces available on the secondary market, but don't think that's realistic. an ad can provide a discount the boutique can't and that does cause issues regarding pricing models etc...

love the 5 i own and hoping to buy a few more next year.

enjoy your 127, it's an iconic piece and the price may even go back up again....

I dont think I am complaining about my loss, mate..it's just fact of life but I tend to take these things in stride. You only lose if/when you sell so unless I am filing for bankruptcy, I am holding the assets. And trust me, when I buy a watch, I consider it as money down the drain, spent on a hobby, there is no practical reason for buying these things, let alone hoping you'll make some sort of a return. I am a banker, so cynical enough to know better, haha. What I am complaining...even if you can stretch what i wrote to that...its more like an observation - that the current misguided management was so out of touch with reality that they have managed to put a massive dent in credibility and brand value of their marque. Takes years to build that sort of cult following they had enjoyed for over a decade (and I am guilty as charged, haha!) and a few stupid greedy moves (remember that Brooklyn bridge debacle, right?) to cool it. It is a freezing point if you ask me - next couple of years will be the ones that either make it as a proper watch brand or put it out of existence in a long run. And this is, by the way, does not apply to Panerai exclusively - there are a lot of bad actors out there that will have to fight to survive after a decade and a half of silly profits driven by our Asian friends with newly acquired middle class wants. I still like Panerai as a watch with a unique look and interesting history, so wishing them well.

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by korneevy

I dont think I am complaining about my loss, mate..it's just fact of life but I tend to take these things in stride. You only lose if/when you sell so unless I am filing for bankruptcy, I am holding the assets. And trust me, when I buy a watch, I consider it as money down the drain, spent on a hobby, there is no practical reason for buying these things, let alone hoping you'll make some sort of a return. I am a banker, so cynical enough to know better, haha. What I am complaining...even if you can stretch what i wrote to that...its more like an observation - that the current misguided management was so out of touch with reality that they have managed to put a massive dent in credibility and brand value of their marque. Takes years to build that sort of cult following they had enjoyed for over a decade (and I am guilty as charged, haha!) and a few stupid greedy moves (remember that Brooklyn bridge debacle, right?) to cool it. It is a freezing point if you ask me - next couple of years will be the ones that either make it as a proper watch brand or put it out of existence in a long run. And this is, by the way, does not apply to Panerai exclusively - there are a lot of bad actors out there that will have to fight to survive after a decade and a half of silly profits driven by our Asian friends with newly acquired middle class wants. I still like Panerai as a watch with a unique look and interesting history, so wishing them well.

we're in the same boat mate....love the 'hobby' and agree that the $$ i spend on watches is just that, a hobby.

hope i didn't offend you that was not my intention. we'll see what direction the brand takes and i agree that others are in the same boat.

enjoy the day

[korneevy]

Originally Posted by fullcourt

we're in the same boat mate....love the 'hobby' and agree that the $$ i spend on watches is just that, a hobby.

hope i didn't offend you that was not my intention. we'll see what direction the brand takes and i agree that others are in the same boat.

enjoy the day

No offence taken, buddy, its all good. Just wanted to clarify that I am not new to this and wasn't just complaining over a loss of a few grand on something as silly as modern watches;) you have a great day too, its always nice to exchange opinions and views in civilized company. All the best!

[chemistman]

Originally Posted by korneevy

I dont think I am complaining about my loss, mate..it's just fact of life but I tend to take these things in stride. You only lose if/when you sell so unless I am filing for bankruptcy, I am holding the assets. And trust me, when I buy a watch, I consider it as money down the drain, spent on a hobby, there is no practical reason for buying these things, let alone hoping you'll make some sort of a return. I am a banker, so cynical enough to know better, haha. What I am complaining...even if you can stretch what i wrote to that...its more like an observation - that the current misguided management was so out of touch with reality that they have managed to put a massive dent in credibility and brand value of their marque. Takes years to build that sort of cult following they had enjoyed for over a decade (and I am guilty as charged, haha!) and a few stupid greedy moves (remember that Brooklyn bridge debacle, right?) to cool it. It is a freezing point if you ask me - next couple of years will be the ones that either make it as a proper watch brand or put it out of existence in a long run. And this is, by the way, does not apply to Panerai exclusively - there are a lot of bad actors out there that will have to fight to survive after a decade and a half of silly profits driven by our Asian friends with newly acquired middle class wants. I still like Panerai as a watch with a unique look and interesting history, so wishing them well.

Very well said. A lot of my sentiment / disappointment on Panerai isn't about loss in the second hand value, but rather the loss of an unique opportunity for the brand to grow even bigger. They had a chance to make some models as iconic as a Sub- but instead they went for the quick money to pump and dump.

Another thing which I do not understand is that Panerai does not provide authentication for their used watches- which seems strange for a brand that commands such high price. This indicates either:
(1) Panerai doesn't stand behind their product - they just want you to buy a new one for more profit, or
(2) Whatever they are making are being copied so well that they cannot tell apart. (perhaps more applicable to the older ETA models).

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by chemistman

Very well said. A lot of my sentiment / disappointment on Panerai isn't about loss in the second hand value, but rather the loss of an unique opportunity for the brand to grow even bigger. They had a chance to make some models as iconic as a Sub- but instead they went for the quick money to pump and dump.

Last time I checked, there were several versions of the Submariner (which kind of looks like a GMT which kind of looks like an Explorer II) and hundreds of combinations for the DateJust (which kind of looks like a DayDate which is related to an OP).... all being pumped out in the hundreds of thousands a year.

Originally Posted by chemistman

Another thing which I do not understand is that Panerai does not provide authentication for their used watches- which seems strange for a brand that commands such high price. This indicates either:
(1) Panerai doesn't stand behind their product - they just want you to buy a new one for more profit, or
(2) Whatever they are making are being copied so well that they cannot tell apart. (perhaps more applicable to the older ETA models).

How is this different than Rolex? Unless you're saying that PSC will service fake Panerais?

[belligero]

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

There have been many long-time collectors moving away from Panerai in the past year. Why? Because they keep coming out with new versions of what were supposed to be LE/SE models. They killed their own secondary market values.[...]

This 2013 post was a very prescient one.

Add in their continual reliability and service problems, and there's no wonder that they're getting hammered.

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by belligero

Add in their continual reliability and service problems, and there's no wonder that they're getting hammered.

Are you speaking from first hand experience about their 'continual reliability and service problems' or what you've 'heard'? Just curious, thx

[Vaxe]

AP is the new Panerai

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by Vaxe

AP is the new Panerai

not even....lol

[chemistman]

Originally Posted by fullcourt

Are you speaking from first hand experience about their 'continual reliability and service problems' or what you've 'heard'? Just curious, thx

I can speak for one myself. Recently had my 10 year old pam serviced. Dial was chipping and dust starts appearing inside the watch for no reason so I have no choice but to go back to AD.

Service time was about 2 months from Australia pam center (which isn't too bad). Came back with new dial, serviced movement, polished case (not as well done as Rolex, as some marks are very visible still) and worst lume (I have no idea how this happened but the lume on the marker were uneven- maybe it's an old dial ?)

Anyhow the bill comes to exactly DOUBLE for what I've paid RSC to overhaul my explorer 2 last year. Mind you I've actually broke the ExpII movement - so it was overhauled, polished and also fitted with new bezel. I pretty much got a new watch back, in one month time.

From now on I'm only keen on ETA based pam. At least you can get it fixed from your locals. But then again I'm screwed if something happens to the dial or hands.

(BTW the serviced pam came back in a cheap looking travel case with some brown smear. I hope the watchmaker enjoyed his food while doing the job)

Does make you think twice before buying the next pam. Such lovely watch though ...

[blacke90]

Reviving an old thread here. Wanted to get your thoughts on Panerai and how they are being perceived these days. It seems numerous good deals are available on the secondary market still. I love the look of the Luminor Due, but disappointed to hear of they switched to a snap backed case and the usage of spring bars.

Originally Posted by malnik

I'm digging up an old thread. It's the Q4 of 2016 now and Panerai is definitely in the decline. The secondary market value is dropping and I'm loving it! I've been eyeing on a particular "LE" modeling. One online reseller has it and has been on his listings for years. Today I checked and the new listing price is 20% drop from last year! Maybe it's time for me to finally pick it up.

[blacke90]

Reviving an old thread here. Wanted to get your thoughts on Panerai and how they are being perceived these days. It seems numerous good deals are available on the secondary market still. I love the look of the Luminor Due, but disappointed to hear of they switched to a snap backed case and the usage of spring bars.

[fullcourt]

it’s like everything in the luxury market....it ebbs and flows

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by blacke90

Reviving an old thread here. Wanted to get your thoughts on Panerai and how they are being perceived these days. It seems numerous good deals are available on the secondary market still. I love the look of the Luminor Due, but disappointed to hear of they switched to a snap backed case and the usage of spring bars.

The snap-on casebacks were introduced to provide the consumer with a "new" entry-level price segment. Of course it's the same prices we paid for the screw-on entry-levels five years ago, but that's the watch-market inflation for you. Imagine wanting a Panerai only to find out the price of entry started out at $10K... !

Aside from that, general sales of new PAMs is just as strong as ever while the vintage market has seen a fall due to, in part, some horror stories of frankenwatches being auctioned off at well-known [auction] houses, etc.

The PAM 721 "Kampfschwimmer" is today's 232, the 671 "Blonzo" is today's 372... I could go on & on. There is no shortage of buyers for the desirable models and as has been the case for the past 10 years, there are numerous models geared towards the general consumer in between.

If I had unlimited funds, I could think of a half-dozen models (incl. the 721 & 671) I would love to buy...


Bonati may be gone, but OP is still going strong! Angelo, thanks for the 911, btw

[synequano]

Since the beginning Panerai have always been that obscure brand,kinda like apple in smartphone world,when it went boom in 2012ish,they were a bit more popular but I think recently they have gone back to being an obscure brand

As for me,I just what I enjoy and can afford,if what I wear is rare,I see that as a bonus point but not necessarily the main thing I'm looking for in a watch

[blacke90]

Thanks for your input. I get the "entry-level" pricepoint/positioning. I wish Panerai should've kept the screw-on, thus allowing them to be true to their DNA, story, and etc. I assume most Panerai owners will never engage in extreme water activities with their watch.--soo snap-on casebacks shouldn't matter.

Originally Posted by Travelller

The snap-on casebacks were introduced to provide the consumer with a "new" entry-level price segment. Of course it's the same prices we paid for the screw-on entry-levels five years ago, but that's the watch-market inflation for you. Imagine wanting a Panerai only to find out the price of entry started out at $10K... !

Aside from that, general sales of new PAMs is just as strong as ever while the vintage market has seen a fall due to, in part, some horror stories of frankenwatches being auctioned off at well-known [auction] houses, etc.

The PAM 721 "Kampfschwimmer" is today's 232, the 671 "Blonzo" is today's 372... I could go on & on. There is no shortage of buyers for the desirable models and as has been the case for the past 10 years, there are numerous models geared towards the general consumer in between.

If I had unlimited funds, I could think of a half-dozen models (incl. the 721 & 671) I would love to buy...


Bonati may be gone, but OP is still going strong! Angelo, thanks for the 911, btw

[blacke90]

Totally agree with you. People should buy what they really love, instead of caring what others think. Now if you plan to flip, that mindset might not work so well.

Originally Posted by synequano

As for me,I just what I enjoy and can afford,if what I wear is rare,I see that as a bonus point but not necessarily the main thing I'm looking for in a watch

[synequano]

Maybe casual pam owner wouldn't mind 30m WR,as for me I might take off the due if I wanna wash my hands 🤣🤣

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by synequano

Maybe casual pam owner wouldn't mind 30m WR,as for me I might take off the due if I wanna wash my hands 🤣🤣

no need to unless you're washing your hands in ~90ft of water. 🤣😂😂🤣