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Old 8 October 2014, 12:34 PM   #91
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An old man in a rusty truck, with tons of guns he's selling who doesn't care about money. Who sells a rolex he knows is worth $$$ for 900 ( I don't think op told us what the original asking price was. Just said 900 later he got it )

Sounds like a country western song or something.


Oh I forgot the burlap bag .... Fantastic.
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Old 8 October 2014, 01:13 PM   #92
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Says the guy who paid $1000 for a sea dweller, from a jeweler who paid $300. Don't see you concerned about the thousands the original owner of your watch was screwed out of.


You got a great deal, just because there's a market value for something, doesn't mean everyone's going to know it. This just goes to show how true the old saying "knowledge is valuable" is. A Rolex dealer won't even tell you if a Rolex is real or fake for free, so why should you give a free authentication & appraisal when you're buying one.

Plenty of people have gone to a jeweler who were sold an engagement ring for $12k saying it was appraised for $15k only to find out you can only get $3k for it after you walk out the door. And rarely do any of them say anything, because they were content with the purchase they made at the time. Just as the seller was content with the purchase price in this scenario.

The seller clearly didn't do any research and he got screwed, that's life. Who sells a car without looking at bluebook? No one, so why would someone sell an asset such as a Rolex without looking it up. He could've easily gotten quoted from a pawn shop, could've spent a few bucks on an appraisal, even googled 1980's submariner and he would've seen the approximate value. I wouldn't feel bad about getting a good deal. If you would've clued him in to anywhere near the value I guarantee he would've demanded top dollar. There's been a few watches I was going to buy, I felt the seller was asking too little, made them a better offer and was refused the watch because they were going to try and get more. Time to buy is when you see it, cash in hand, being a nice guy doesn't always pay off, especially in this industry.
Yes Greg, but what you failed to mention is that I argued with the jeweler and attempted to pay him several thousand dollars more than his asking price and I tried to tell him that he was getting screwed on our deal. I wanted to pay a fair price for the watch with about $3,000 discount built in for service costs. I also priced the 1665 around $8,500 since I couldn't see the dial very well and had no idea what kind of shape the movement was in since it didn't keep time. It was very important to me for the jeweler to have a good taste in his mouth after the deal to preserve possible future dealings.

I also do feel bad for the original owner of my 1665. The fact that only $250 was paid for it was outside of my control and I would have offered the original owner the same amount as I offered the jeweler. I also don't blame the jeweler because he didn't know the current value of vintage Rolex. It is not his area of expertise.

Totally different scenario than the OP. Similar price was paid, but a fair price was offered. HUGE difference IMHO.

BTW, after the 1665 was serviced, I went back to Matt and offered to make the deal right once again. He wouldn't hear of it. Whenever I'm in need of jewelry, I will be visiting my friend Matt. I did ok on the watch, and he chalks it up to making the money back on the two diamond rings and the earrings I've bought from him.
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Old 8 October 2014, 01:26 PM   #93
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No offence, but I'd tone it down if I'd just straight-faced an old guy out of a few grand.
X 2.
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Old 8 October 2014, 01:39 PM   #94
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Old 8 October 2014, 02:05 PM   #95
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Man this is a tough crowd... guess Ill stick to garage sales and thrift shops. In retrospect I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut about it. This thread is not what I intended. oh well lesson learned. I just got caught up in the moment.

mods, feel free to flush this whole thread.
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Old 8 October 2014, 03:32 PM   #96
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Man this is a tough crowd... guess Ill stick to garage sales and thrift shops. In retrospect I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut about it. This thread is not what I intended. oh well lesson learned. I just got caught up in the moment.

mods, feel free to flush this whole thread.

Welcome to the forum. 😞 I'm not gonna comment on the issue since its a matter of perspective. That said, stick around. We need new members to keep this forum alive n strong. Once u get to know the members here, they can be a charm.


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Old 8 October 2014, 03:41 PM   #97
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Leaving the transaction/price issue aside... CONGRATS on your first Rolex, and may it not be your last.
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Old 8 October 2014, 04:02 PM   #98
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Yes Greg, but what you failed to mention is that I argued with the jeweler and attempted to pay him several thousand dollars more than his asking price and I tried to tell him that he was getting screwed on our deal. I wanted to pay a fair price for the watch with about $3,000 discount built in for service costs. I also priced the 1665 around $8,500 since I couldn't see the dial very well and had no idea what kind of shape the movement was in since it didn't keep time. It was very important to me for the jeweler to have a good taste in his mouth after the deal to preserve possible future dealings.
I also do feel bad for the original owner of my 1665. The fact that only $250 was paid for it was outside of my control and I would have offered the original owner the same amount as I offered the jeweler. I also don't blame the jeweler because he didn't know the current value of vintage Rolex. It is not his area of expertise.

Totally different scenario than the OP. Similar price was paid, but a fair price was offered. HUGE difference IMHO.

BTW, after the 1665 was serviced, I went back to Matt and offered to make the deal right once again. He wouldn't hear of it. Whenever I'm in need of jewelry, I will be visiting my friend Matt. I did ok on the watch, and he chalks it up to making the money back on the two diamond rings and the earrings I've bought from him.
I agree that your deal was a different scenario, but your reason for wanting to pay him a more fair value was apparently not for altruistic reasons, it was to ensure a good relationship for future deals, which is understandable. In the the OP's case there were never going to be any future deals so that wouldn't have been a consideration. I do applaud you for offering more money to your jeweler. I probably would have made mention that it was a good deal and went ahead and bought the watch for the huge discount offered!
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Old 8 October 2014, 04:30 PM   #99
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Ok so I guess I left out a few important details.

First of all the man was/is NOT hurting for cash. And the rusty truck is not indicative of his station in life. He KNEW the watch was worth significantly more, he just didn't care. Besides if he had wanted even twice what he was asking, as good of a deal as it would have still been, it would have difficult for me to do it right now.

I do nice things for people all the time and never expect anything in return. I FINALLY catch a break and I'm the bad guy for jumping on it? Its not like he asked me what I thought it was worth or i was there to tell him what he had. My friend has purchased literally THOUSANDS of dollars worth of guns from the man all at good but fair market prices. He's not a "clueless old man" sorry if it came off that way. Perhaps my story telling needs some work.

Besides me being new to the brand I really wasn't even sure what I bought until i was able to get it home and apart and until the. He seemed genuinely happy that someone cared enough about it to ask questions and hear his story. Sorry if it came off like I was bragging about sticking it to some unsuspecting sucker (which i would never do) because that is NOT how it was at all.

Money means very little to some people, apparently this guy is one of them.

Money means little to him but he did sell a lot of guns at fair prices....
You can still remove the curse by giving the man a decent price..
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Old 8 October 2014, 04:34 PM   #100
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Man this is a tough crowd... guess Ill stick to garage sales and thrift shops. In retrospect I guess I should have just kept my mouth shut about it. This thread is not what I intended. oh well lesson learned. I just got caught up in the moment.

mods, feel free to flush this whole thread.
The crowd isn't tough.. most people seem to have moral values.
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Old 8 October 2014, 05:55 PM   #101
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The crowd isn't tough.. most people seem to have moral values.
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Old 8 October 2014, 06:42 PM   #102
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This has gone too far IMO.
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Old 8 October 2014, 09:10 PM   #103
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The crowd isn't tough.. most people seem to have moral values.
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Old 8 October 2014, 09:14 PM   #104
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"Storytelling" is right...

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sorry guys I've been trying to reply to this thread since I joined last night but it kept telling me to wait for a Mod's approval.... so this is a duplicate (kinda) of what I posted above... they all showed up at once

anyway, no I'm not trolling, and I'm no sock puppet.


I think there have been quite a few assumptions made about this story, perhaps I need to work on my story telling.

here are a few more details. The guy I purchased the watch from was aware that it was worth more than he was asking. I have no clue what his motivation to sell it was. The fact that he drove a rusty truck means absolutely nothing. If this guy has HALF of what I've been told... He's bought/sold literally many thousands of dollars in vintage and collectable guns many to the guy that introduced us... it AIN'T about the money. I do find it interesting that so many assume he's some hapless schmuck because he was old(er) and drove an old rusty truck. I mean he DID by the watch originally so its not like he was clueless.

Were do you draw the line? If any of us saw something like that in an estate sale we couldn't get to the cash register fast enough. If I was at a garage sell and came across a beat up vintage Omega needing a new everything is it MY responsibility to tell the seller what it should be worth? If I'm antiquing and come across an old movement that I recognize as valuable (happened several times) it's my DUTY to inform the seller that he's priced his stuff too low? wow I don't know what to say.

I would never intentionally mislead someone. and I had NO IDEA what i was going to see. it's not like I was appraising the watch and then low balled him. I was just going to check out a watch.


I sense some righteous indignation up in this joint


sorry to step on so many toes. very far from my intention. I really wasn't bragging... this is a Rolex forum right? I was just relaying what I thought was a good story.
Nice addendum to make the story seem real...
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Old 8 October 2014, 09:19 PM   #105
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I agree that your deal was a different scenario, but your reason for wanting to pay him a more fair value was apparently not for altruistic reasons, it was to ensure a good relationship for future deals, which is understandable. In the the OP's case there were never going to be any future deals so that wouldn't have been a consideration. I do applaud you for offering more money to your jeweler. I probably would have made mention that it was a good deal and went ahead and bought the watch for the huge discount offered!
That wasn't my reason for wanting to pay him a fair price. In my opinion, in any transaction....both parties should come away from the transaction feeling good about the transaction. I personally would have felt guilty if I paid a price so far below market price without offering a fair price. That was my motive and nothing more.

The likelihood of The jeweler getting another Rolex that I might buy is pretty low. He just typically doesn't get this sort of thing in his store. He has a 5513 now, but I don't think he will ever sell it.
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Old 8 October 2014, 10:07 PM   #106
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He paid the sellers asking price. OP didn't tell him it was worth 900 to rip him off.

How is this any different from a jeweler paying less then $500 to one of there customers for a watch and then re selling it to a forum member here for 1k? Edit (not referring to Jason's deal)
So if you seen this sub at a yard sale for $900 you would offer the sellers fair market for it? Yea ok.

Some of you should get off your high horse and lighten up.
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Old 8 October 2014, 10:17 PM   #107
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Some of you should get off your high horse and lighten up.
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Old 8 October 2014, 10:26 PM   #108
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He paid the sellers asking price. OP didn't tell him it was worth 900 to rip him off.

How is this any different from a jeweler paying less then $500 to one of there customers for a watch and then re selling it to a forum member here for 1k?

Some of you should get off your high horse and lighten up.
Personally, I believe it boils down to knowledge. The jeweler did not really have the knowledge of vintage Rolex. If you remember correctly, the watch was in poor shape with a cheap aftermarket bracelet. He knew the watch was probably worth $250 like he paid. His plan was to pass the watch along to his wholesaler and probably make a little money. Remember, the watch wasn't keeping time.

So you don't think the OP knew he was taking advantage of the old man?
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Old 8 October 2014, 10:28 PM   #109
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Yes Greg, but what you failed to mention is that I argued with the jeweler and attempted to pay him several thousand dollars more than his asking price and I tried to tell him that he was getting screwed on our deal. I wanted to pay a fair price for the watch with about $3,000 discount built in for service costs. I also priced the 1665 around $8,500 since I couldn't see the dial very well and had no idea what kind of shape the movement was in since it didn't keep time. It was very important to me for the jeweler to have a good taste in his mouth after the deal to preserve possible future dealings.

I also do feel bad for the original owner of my 1665. The fact that only $250 was paid for it was outside of my control and I would have offered the original owner the same amount as I offered the jeweler. I also don't blame the jeweler because he didn't know the current value of vintage Rolex. It is not his area of expertise.

Totally different scenario than the OP. Similar price was paid, but a fair price was offered. HUGE difference IMHO.

BTW, after the 1665 was serviced, I went back to Matt and offered to make the deal right once again. He wouldn't hear of it. Whenever I'm in need of jewelry, I will be visiting my friend Matt. I did ok on the watch, and he chalks it up to making the money back on the two diamond rings and the earrings I've bought from him.
I know your a stand up guy, after re reading what I posted it's a lot more negative sounding than I intended. I really just meant that not all people are savvy to market value(like the old man who bought your SD new in the 80's, wore it until it) "wasn't keeping very good time" and was about to THROW IT OUT if I remember correctly. I mean sure you could've looked at the purchase receipt from the jeweler found out the original owners address and sent him some money since both him and the jeweler were unbeknownst to the watches value. But your jeweler was happy with what he got, original owner was happy to get $250 for his trash, and you were happy with your amazing deal.


I see this deal no differently. Sure you offered more and that says something about your integrity. But ethically, i don't think it's any different. Purchaser got a great deal and is happy, seller got his asking price for a watch he wore and enjoyed for 20 years and still probably made a small profit on it. In the end everyone wins.
We can argue logistics of a sale all day long. But if a buyer and seller are both happy with a sale, I'd say it's an ethical and successful one. Reguardless of what way the scales are tipped.
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Old 8 October 2014, 11:08 PM   #110
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Old 8 October 2014, 11:26 PM   #111
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I think its interesting that everyone assumes this guy is helpless because he drives an old rusty truck (well he's gotta be a moron then right?) Incidentally if this guy has half of what I heard he has... he has plenty of money.
Agreed. Let us not forget that Sam Walton drove around in an old truck.
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Old 9 October 2014, 01:24 AM   #112
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Let's just Reset.

Hey guys I really hate how this thread turned out as it was never my intention to argue the morality of taking advantage of an incredible deal. I have read about garage sale and estate find's for years (and have even found a few myself) where people find old guitars, books, artwork, watches and vintage audio gear at literally pennies on the dollar. I've always found the hunt for a great find part of the allure of trading and searching.

I have never seen anything quite like this. Aside from the assumptions being made about the seller, I don't think I've ever heard "seller beware" defended quite like this. Believe me when I say that I do understand where some of you are coming from with regard to the price I paid, I just have a real hard time believing that so many of you wouldn't do the exact same thing were you in my shoes.

I met the seller's price without influence and we both walked away happy with the deal. I took a risk by not going through an AD but it looks like it paid off. For me it has to end there and I'm not gonna beat myself up. There's been plenty of other deals that I've taken a bath on because I didn't buy right.

However in retrospect I realize that my original post might have came off a little brash, I guess the narrative got a little out of control. That was certainly not my intent, I was just excited to share my find and who better than with a bunch of watch nuts. <--Hindsight has a different opinion.

You guys do know most people think we're pretty crazy anyway for caring and spending what we do on "watches" right?


Let's just put this ugliness behind us and return to talking about the incredible timepiece that is ROLEX

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Old 9 October 2014, 01:27 AM   #113
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Sorry Jason. Wasn't referring to your deal only the instance.

If I ask the seller for a price and he gives me one I'm happy with I'm buying it no questions asked.
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Old 9 October 2014, 01:39 AM   #114
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Hey guys I really hate how this thread turned out as it was never my intention to argue the morality of taking advantage of an incredible deal. I have read about garage sale and estate find's for years (and have even found a few myself) where people find old guitars, books, artwork, watches and vintage audio gear at literally pennies on the dollar. I've always found the hunt for a great find part of the allure of trading and searching.

I have never seen anything quite like this. Aside from the assumptions being made about the seller, I don't think I've ever heard "seller beware" defended quite like this. Believe me when I say that I do understand where some of you are coming from with regard to the price I paid, I just have a real hard time believing that so many of you wouldn't do the exact same thing were you in my shoes.

I met the seller's price without influence and we both walked away happy with the deal. I took a risk by not going through an AD but it looks like it paid off. For me it has to end there and I'm not gonna beat myself up. There's been plenty of other deals that I've taken a bath on because I didn't buy right.

However in retrospect I realize that my original post might have came off a little brash, I guess the narrative got a little out of control. That was certainly not my intent, I was just excited to share my find and who better than with a bunch of watch nuts. <--Hindsight has a different opinion.

You guys do know most people think we're pretty crazy anyway for caring and spending what we do on "watches" right?


Let's just put this ugliness behind us and return to talking about the incredible timepiece that is ROLEX

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Old 9 October 2014, 01:54 AM   #115
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I'm glad op was able to open the case back to verify that this score was authenticated. Some handy work to do at home.
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Old 9 October 2014, 03:26 AM   #116
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I'm glad op was able to open the case back to verify that this score was authenticated. Some handy work to do at home.

firstly, where did the op say he did that?

secondly, it's not hard to open a caseback. should he want to, i'm sure he could figure it out.

but why would he want to? he has ALL MATCHING PAPERWORK. everything matches the serial number on the watch and was in the guys name.

this is the type of b.s. that brings this forum down and makes people not want to participate. the op asked for recommendations on who to send the watch to for service, and sounds like he has every intention of doing so.
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Old 9 October 2014, 04:19 AM   #117
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I know your a stand up guy, after re reading what I posted it's a lot more negative sounding than I intended. I really just meant that not all people are savvy to market value(like the old man who bought your SD new in the 80's, wore it until it) "wasn't keeping very good time" and was about to THROW IT OUT if I remember correctly. I mean sure you could've looked at the purchase receipt from the jeweler found out the original owners address and sent him some money since both him and the jeweler were unbeknownst to the watches value. But your jeweler was happy with what he got, original owner was happy to get $250 for his trash, and you were happy with your amazing deal.


I see this deal no differently. Sure you offered more and that says something about your integrity. But ethically, i don't think it's any different. Purchaser got a great deal and is happy, seller got his asking price for a watch he wore and enjoyed for 20 years and still probably made a small profit on it. In the end everyone wins.
We can argue logistics of a sale all day long. But if a buyer and seller are both happy with a sale, I'd say it's an ethical and successful one. Reguardless of what way the scales are tipped.
I can't argue with much of what you said

I will clarify that I asked about the original owner, and the jeweler said that he didn't have contact info for the original owner. He just pulled $250 out of his wallet and paid cash for it.

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Sorry Jason. Wasn't referring to your deal only the instance.

If I ask the seller for a price and he gives me one I'm happy with I'm buying it no questions asked.
No worries my friend
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Old 9 October 2014, 04:30 AM   #118
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firstly, where did the op say he did that?

secondly, it's not hard to open a caseback. should he want to, i'm sure he could figure it out.

but why would he want to? he has ALL MATCHING PAPERWORK. everything matches the serial number on the watch and was in the guys name.

this is the type of b.s. that brings this forum down and makes people not want to participate. the op asked for recommendations on who to send the watch to for service, and sounds like he has every intention of doing so.
I am sorry but with your whole 30+ posts I don't think you can say what brings the forum down. What brings the forum up is people not be attacked. Maybe SUBversive misread something in the thread. No harm done, however if you choose to no longer participate in the forum that is your loss.
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Old 9 October 2014, 04:31 AM   #119
BNA/LION
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Hummm... Perhaps you should find out what the "old man" drinks and send him the finest bottle available!

PS- Send it to Tom and he will completely rebuild and service it for you! http://www.dstimeservice.com/index.html
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Old 9 October 2014, 04:55 AM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QCASANOVA View Post
I am sorry but with your whole 30+ posts I don't think you can say what brings the forum down. What brings the forum up is people not be attacked. Maybe SUBversive misread something in the thread. No harm done, however if you choose to no longer participate in the forum that is your loss.
Just another user error.
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