The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Classifieds > WatchOut!!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8 January 2017, 01:33 AM   #211
Abdullah71601
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calumet Harbor
Watch: ing da Bears
Posts: 13,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny83 View Post
Beckertime sold me a fake twice.....
How did they get you twice Danny?
Abdullah71601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 02:36 AM   #212
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdullah71601 View Post
Refinishing dials is like reconditioning engine blocks. They strip everything off the carcass down to bare metal, then reapply color and the new bits. As long as the carcass is an original part, it's an "original refinished dial". The "refinished" verbiage tells you it's not factory.

Whether they met Rolex quality standards in the process varies wildly. But that doesn't make it dishonest. It just makes it easier to pay less for the watch.
Thank you for explaining the obvious which really wasn't needed . Being in the trade I think I am well versed in the intracies of Rolex watches but for the sake of my original observations my points are as follows:
1. Bearing in mind it is illegal to make items that infringe a companies trademark why would a dial refinisher make and then stick on a sub standard Coronet to a supposedly original refinished dial ?
2. If the dial was an original dial why not re apply the original Coronet to it? After all it would be more original refinished than the other option .
My overall take is that a big percentage of these dials are not original Rolex base dials that have been refinished but 100% aftermarket .
Legally, printing Rolex on an unoriginal dial is trademark infringement as is making the Coronet and using it on a dial .
So this refinished tag in many cases is just a smoke screen imho
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 02:47 AM   #213
MonBK
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kingstown
Posts: 58,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
Thank you for explaining the obvious which really wasn't needed . Being in the trade I think I am well versed in the intracies of Rolex watches but for the sake of my original observations my points are as follows:
1. Bearing in mind it is illegal to make items that infringe a companies trademark why would a dial refinisher make and then stick on a sub standard Coronet to a supposedly original refinished dial ?
2. If the dial was an original dial why not re apply the original Coronet to it? After all it would be more original refinished than the other option .
My overall take is that a big percentage of these dials are not original Rolex base dials that have been refinished but 100% aftermarket .
Legally, printing Rolex on an unoriginal dial is trademark infringement as is making the Coronet and using it on a dial .
So this refinished tag in many cases is just a smoke screen imho
So is the dial you're talking about an original dial or a complete fake?
MonBK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 03:02 AM   #214
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonBK View Post
So is the dial you're talking about an original dial or a complete fake?
That's the big question !
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 03:03 AM   #215
Knappo 1307
2024 Pledge Member
 
Knappo 1307's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Real Name: Jason
Location: USA
Watch: Sea Dweller
Posts: 8,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
Thank you for explaining the obvious which really wasn't needed . Being in the trade I think I am well versed in the intracies of Rolex watches but for the sake of my original observations my points are as follows:
1. Bearing in mind it is illegal to make items that infringe a companies trademark why would a dial refinisher make and then stick on a sub standard Coronet to a supposedly original refinished dial ?
2. If the dial was an original dial why not re apply the original Coronet to it? After all it would be more original refinished than the other option .
My overall take is that a big percentage of these dials are not original Rolex base dials that have been refinished but 100% aftermarket .
Legally, printing Rolex on an unoriginal dial is trademark infringement as is making the Coronet and using it on a dial .
So this refinished tag in many cases is just a smoke screen imho

Save your condescending remarks, absolutely no one is impressed....
Knappo 1307 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 03:04 AM   #216
MonBK
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kingstown
Posts: 58,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
That's the big question !
Yes, that was my question to you.
MonBK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 04:02 AM   #217
Jocke
2024 Pledge Member
 
Jocke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Real Name: Jocke
Location: Sweden
Watch: A dozen of Rolex's
Posts: 22,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdullah71601 View Post
How did they get you twice Danny?
He like the first one so much that he buy one more.
__________________
This message is written in perfect swenglish.

What is best a custom Rolex or a Rolex that is stuck in custom?

Buy a professional camera and you´re a professional
photographer, buy a flute and you own a flute.
Jocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 05:15 AM   #218
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonBK View Post
Yes, that was my question to you.
Just after sensible comments and opinions really . There's are hundreds and hundreds of dials like this and it's an interesting topic.
By
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 07:16 AM   #219
MikeyTX
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
Just after sensible comments and opinions really . There's are hundreds and hundreds of dials like this and it's an interesting topic.
By
Very true. I've seen numerous so called Rolex Serti type dials for sale on eBay that were in fact remanufactured dials using an actual used Rolex factory dial with a new face and markings applied. I've no doubt that the party doing the refinishing did so in a way as to CYA against any litigation.
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with.
MikeyTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 08:30 AM   #220
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyTX View Post
Very true. I've seen numerous so called Rolex Serti type dials for sale on eBay that were in fact remanufactured dials using an actual used Rolex factory dial with a new face and markings applied. I've no doubt that the party doing the refinishing did so in a way as to CYA against any litigation.
But how do you know it's a factory original dial ?
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 08:47 AM   #221
MikeyTX
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
But how do you know it's a factory original dial ?
For someone that professes to be knowledgeable in the watch business, you should know the answer to the question you've asked before hand. As such, I'm truly to the point of believing that you are not as you say you are.
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with.
MikeyTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 09:03 AM   #222
MonBK
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Kingstown
Posts: 58,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyTX View Post
For someone that professes to be knowledgeable in the watch business, you should know the answer to the question you've asked before hand. As such, I'm truly to the point of believing that you are not as you say you are.
I'm pretty sure he's not a watchmaker.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=71839
MonBK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 10:14 AM   #223
MikeyTX
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonBK View Post
I'm pretty sure he's not a watchmaker.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=71839
That was almost heartbreaking to read. Steve M. was so watch literate and talented when it came to watch knowledge. To see him go over life's cliff as he did saddens me almost as badly as losing JJ.
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with.
MikeyTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 11:23 AM   #224
watchabout
"TRF" Member
 
watchabout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Real Name: Dave
Location: miami
Watch: Submariner
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by vadcrealestate View Post
i bought a Rolex from their website a little over a year ago. It's always fast. I contacted them and they said, "Sure, send it to us and we'll look at it". Yeah right, i'm going to send you my watch and you're going to charge me an arm and a leg to get it back IF it's really the same watch. Today, it's stopped running all together. They sucK!


So you bought a used watch and it had issues, you contacted the seller who told you he was willing to fix it and then you decided against sending it and somehow they suck?

Do you understand basic common sense?
watchabout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 02:00 PM   #225
Abdullah71601
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calumet Harbor
Watch: ing da Bears
Posts: 13,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchcollectables View Post
Thank you for explaining the obvious which really wasn't needed . Being in the trade I think I am well versed in the intracies of Rolex watches but for the sake of my original observations my points are as follows:
1. Bearing in mind it is illegal to make items that infringe a companies trademark why would a dial refinisher make and then stick on a sub standard Coronet to a supposedly original refinished dial ?
2. If the dial was an original dial why not re apply the original Coronet to it? After all it would be more original refinished than the other option .
My overall take is that a big percentage of these dials are not original Rolex base dials that have been refinished but 100% aftermarket .
Legally, printing Rolex on an unoriginal dial is trademark infringement as is making the Coronet and using it on a dial .
So this refinished tag in many cases is just a smoke screen imho
Perhaps you've not watched someone refinish a dial?

Rolex burnishes the marker pins to the dial. If the markers aren't removed carefully by an expert, they are damaged. Burnishing new markers also requires specialized expertise. While dial restorers and some dial makers will perform this work expertly, they do so for a dear sum of money.

It's faster, cheaper, and easier to chip the old bits off, then glue down new markers. The dial is still an original part.
Abdullah71601 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 02:28 PM   #226
BNA/LION
2024 Pledge Member
 
BNA/LION's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Real Name: Larry
Location: San Diego, CA
Watch: ROLEX
Posts: 25,122
Do not buy from beckertime

I won't, Thanks!

Danny-Sorry to hear you got hosed twice.
__________________

✦ 28238 President DD 18K/YG ✦ 16610LN SS Sub ✦ 16613 18K/SS Serti ✦ 16550 Exp II Non-Rail Cream Dial ✦ Daytona C 116500 ✦ 126710 BLRO GMT-Master II ✦ NEXT-->?
Hole In One! 10/3/19 DMCC 5th hole, par 3, 168 yards w/ 4-Iron.
BNA/LION is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 08:31 PM   #227
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyTX View Post
For someone that professes to be knowledgeable in the watch business, you should know the answer to the question you've asked before hand. As such, I'm truly to the point of believing that you are not as you say you are.
My question was directed at yourself so my knowledge doesn't come into things , when a rhetorical question is asked . How any watchmaker or expert could tell a genuine Rolex base dial has been used when it is mounted on a watch I don't know which is why I posted this addition to this thread but for some reason you seem to want to defend the practise without any correct logical argument and get slightly personal over it too . Thanks.
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8 January 2017, 08:35 PM   #228
Watchcollectables
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonBK View Post
I'm pretty sure he's not a watchmaker.

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=71839
Because almost 8 years ago I asked questions about a Tudor I wasn't sure about! At that time I hadn't seen many .
Watchcollectables is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 May 2017, 11:13 AM   #229
wiggindude
"TRF" Member
 
wiggindude's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Houston
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 111
Don't mean to resurrect an old thread but I saw a Rolex Datejust that I like on Beckertime but the pictures they have are files pictures not pictures of the actual watch described in the description. I asked them in two separate emails to see if they can take some pictures of the actual watch and they say they couldn't. Buyers beware.
wiggindude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10 May 2017, 10:54 PM   #230
MikeyTX
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: Skunk Hollow, TX
Watch: Rolex 116613LN Sub
Posts: 2,198
Funny they would not comply with your request.
__________________
JJ ........... Still missing you bro. May you enjoy the eternal peace the almighty has blessed you with.
MikeyTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2017, 11:52 AM   #231
wiggindude
"TRF" Member
 
wiggindude's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Houston
Watch: 14060M
Posts: 111
Yea, I thought that was strange. No reason why they can't take a few pictures, even with their iPhone.
wiggindude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 12:07 AM   #232
dnptrs
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 14
Bumping an old thread

Another "buyer beware". Been a lurker here for a bit and have been in the market for a platinum dial 16622. Figured my ebay message exchange with beckertime should go here. It starts fine, then goes sour when asking for simple information that all other sellers I've spoken to have given immediately without the "20 questions" game. Enough for me to write about it and forever turn the other way:

------

Your previous message:
Hello,

I'm looking for a M serial number or newer. Do any of your platinum 16622 meet that?

Thanks!

beckertime:
Thank you for your email. We do not have any M series available...my apologies.

Your previous message:
Thank you for the response. Which serials (letter) do you have available?

beckertime:
Thank you for your email. We have early 2000 models available.

Your previous message:
What counts as early 2000s? I would guess that many of your Rolex buyers would appreciate this specific information over a vague range of year reference. Especially given your reputation.

2006 D OR Z
2005 D
2005 F
2004 F
2003 F
2002 Y
2001 K OR Y
2000 K,000,001
2000 P,000,001

beckertime:
Early 2000's is 2000-2003.

------
dnptrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 01:15 AM   #233
dmash
"TRF" Member
 
dmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA <> BKK
Posts: 5,912
Lol I’m sorry, but how is that ‘going sour’? Perhaps he has multiple within the 2000-2003 timeframe?
dmash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 01:38 AM   #234
JayB
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: UK
Watch: EXP, DJ, NF
Posts: 710
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnptrs View Post
It starts fine, then goes sour
How dare they, actually answering your question, just who do they think they are?



Unless there is something missing from the post, giving the nature of your last message to them I'm surprised they even bothered to reply, I wouldn't have.
__________________
In 1953 they used Rolex Oysters and oxygen on Everest.
In 1978 they managed without the oxygen.

Rolex Explorer -- Rolex Datejust -- Tudor North Flag -- Omega De Ville Trésor -- Tudor Black Bay GMT -- Omega Speedmaster Professional -- Tudor Black Bay Fifty Eight
JayB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 02:33 AM   #235
J_1964
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Jim
Location: NoCal USA
Watch: 16710
Posts: 1,955
Geez, How Old is this Thread? Not Dead Yet?
J_1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 02:40 AM   #236
imperio
"TRF" Member
 
imperio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Watch: this space
Posts: 1,867
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnptrs View Post
Another "buyer beware". Been a lurker here for a bit and have been in the market for a platinum dial 16622. Figured my ebay message exchange with beckertime should go here. It starts fine, then goes sour when asking for simple information that all other sellers I've spoken to have given immediately without the "20 questions" game. Enough for me to write about it and forever turn the other way:

------

Your previous message:
Hello,

I'm looking for a M serial number or newer. Do any of your platinum 16622 meet that?

Thanks!

beckertime:
Thank you for your email. We do not have any M series available...my apologies.

Your previous message:
Thank you for the response. Which serials (letter) do you have available?

beckertime:
Thank you for your email. We have early 2000 models available.

Your previous message:
What counts as early 2000s? I would guess that many of your Rolex buyers would appreciate this specific information over a vague range of year reference. Especially given your reputation.

2006 D OR Z
2005 D
2005 F
2004 F
2003 F
2002 Y
2001 K OR Y
2000 K,000,001
2000 P,000,001

beckertime:
Early 2000's is 2000-2003.

------
imperio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 05:14 AM   #237
J_1964
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Jim
Location: NoCal USA
Watch: 16710
Posts: 1,955
I might "Turn Sour" too if you said to me "Especially given your reputation."
J_1964 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 05:20 AM   #238
CorradoBrit
"TRF" Member
 
CorradoBrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Europe bound
Posts: 1,410
Quote:
Originally Posted by dnptrs View Post
Especially given your reputation.
Ouch. Effective and responsive communication is a two way street.
CorradoBrit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 10:35 AM   #239
dmash
"TRF" Member
 
dmash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: USA <> BKK
Posts: 5,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
Ouch. Effective and responsive communication is a two way street.
That poster is correct, the conversation did turn sour, with his condescending remarks at the end. Now I understand!
dmash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31 May 2018, 12:23 PM   #240
dakota.destiny
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: paradise
Posts: 80
Uuhmm.
dakota.destiny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.