16758/ 1675 18k GMT Info and pics

[Suhr19]

Hey, folks. I have become very fond of the vintage look of the nipple dial 18k (both the 1675 and the 16758). I seem to have exhausted all information I could find on solid 18k versions of the pieces.

I have so many questions! Did both models come with the same size case? Or did that change over time? How rare is it that a 1675 has no crown guard? How much more expensive is the 1675 from the 16758 (all things being equal)?

I particularly am in love with the look of dark brown dials with matching brown or faded root beer bezels. Can someone set the record straight on the options that were available? Is a dark brown dial today merely just a faded black dial?

Any pics of afformentioned versions would be great. Thanks in advance. I am learning....

[waspy1]

Hmm so many questions.....

Lets see... Case sizes are the same throughout - 40mm

Between around 1960 and about 1966 they had no crown guards so these are rarer as they were sold for only a few years.

During this time they had at least 2 or 3 hand styles and it is this which has a significant effect on price. Rarest seems to be concord / dauphine hands with small arrow gmt and straight second hand.

From around 1966 on to 1979 you get the 1675/8 with crown guards and normal hands (large arrow, Mercedes hand etc).

Early 60s dials had a slightly gloss chocolate finish and oyster-perpetual with a dash. Later ones no dash and were matt brown. Some time in the 70s you also see the colour change dial which looks dark brown / purple in certain lights. The finish on these tends to degrade in many cases I've seen although when in good condition looks great.

From 1980 the 16758 has sapphire crystal, quick set and the applied gold crown is gone with the crown now printed on the dial.

Hope this helps and is largely accurate.

[Suhr19]

Thanks so much for all the info. Lots to think about.

Here are two examples that I find really spectacular.

Both have the very dark brown dial so it seems. The brown bezel example has the crown guard and maybe the concorde hands? The second example has no crown guard and has a really wonderful faded bezel (what color was it originally)? Also it has that great dark brown dial.

What year would you date these two?

[waspy1]

The first one with the darker bezel insert has what I referred to as the Mercedes hour hand. This is the same hand style used through till present and was used from late 60s onwards. I would guess this watch is mid to late 70s but can't tell if the dial is matte mocha brown or colour change dark brown. Looks to be the latter. Otherwise could be from late 60s onwards.

The other watch is a real beauty, complete with original dauphine hands, pointy second hand and little 24hr hand. The dial also has the dash between oyster-perpetual as is correct for early 60s no crown guard.

The Concorde hands are different again. Have a google around.

Regarding price, the no crown guard one in your pic would be prob double the price compared to the regular guard version. I'd say the 1675/8 is typically 10% more expensive than 16758 but it depends on condition.

Both bezel inserts are brown but the older one has faded more and is a true vintage fat font insert. The other prob started off a darker brown in the first place and is much less faded. Possibly a service replacement and not fat font.

They came in various colours of brown, some with silver numbers, some with gold. Then there's the two tone root beer inserts made for the two tone gmt but looks good on the all gold too.

[Suhr19]

Waspy1, thanks for all your insight. It's very much appreciated.

Are these vintage bezel inserts still sold as new old stock by anyone? It would be nice to get a 70's color change dial 16758 and tweak it with different authentic bezel inserts. All the different variations of wear and fade give so many great options.

Just in ballpark estimations, how much for each watch if each watch was sold without the accompanying bracelet?

Have you read the book...Rolex Gmt-Master by Guido Mondani? It looks very comprehensive. Vintage GMTs all stainless steel with brown bezels but gold lettering on the dial?! Very strange. Where do you suggest going to gain the knowledge you have gained about vintage gmt's?

Thanks again!

[waspy1]

Thanks but I'm no expert. Hanging around here and vintage Rolex forum helps you learn. I've also bought several 1675/8, 1675/3, 16758 and 16713 etc etc and learned of the variations. I haven't read the mondani book but what you're describing sounds like a gilt 1675 gmt which would normally come with Pepsi blue red insert but it has been swapped out with brown insert from the 1675/8.

Maybe just a slip of yours but note that the 16758 is a different watch than the 1675/8. The former is from 1980 onwards and has sapphire crystal. The latter is earlier and has plexi. The inserts are not interchangeable between sapphire and plexi models.

Regarding nos vintage inserts - I think you'd be unlikely to find true nos condition although you will find the brown ones in varying degrees of fade. I actually wear a service replacement insert most of the time in my usual 1675/8 as the older fat font looks a bit old. Very good to have a change though.

Note that fat font brown inserts in good condition sell for over 1000 usd so you're not likely to have a large collection of these sitting around.

A good condition 1675/8 from mid to late 70s with no bracelet can be had for around 9k usd but from a dealer you can expect more like 12 - 13k.

[waspy1]

Oh and the earlier no crown guard watch I'd expect to go for around 20k usd.

I picked up a nice 1675/8 with great condition jubilee bracelet for 11.5k about a year ago. I think that's great for a solid gold 18k vintage Rolex. Consider a new gmt2 will cost north of 25k usd new. New one is somewhat heavier but it's a big price difference. Gold vintage Rolex are a steal just now.

[Suhr19]

Do you have any pics of your 16758 or 1675/8? What dials and bezels were on yours? Besides the crystal and the crown painted/mounted on the dial, are there any other differences in the two models? Did Rolex quit the color change brown/purple dial by 1980? I have yet to find a black dial on black bezel 1675/8. Was that an addition to the 16758 options?

Thanks again for all the help!

[waspy1]

The movement is quite different between them. 16758 has quickset date whereas the earlier is slow set. Will see if I can find some pics of mine, not much of a photographer but the ones listed when I bought them may still be around. I've had various inserts, some old some new, some bought loose and some on watches.

[waspy1]

There are still the colour change dark dials well into the early 80s until they stopped doing the nipple dials.

[waspy1]

Here's a link to one of mine:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...r+-+Ref.+16758

[Suhr19]

Great looking watch, waspy1. I love the bezel and the jubillee bracelet. I cannot really decide on whether to get the 16758 or the 1675/8. But I am pretty sure I want either the color change dial or a black dial with either a black bezel or a brown bezel like yours.

What dealers besides Shear do you recommend? Ever dealt with Jacek from HQ Milton?

[waspy1]

Both shear and jacek are 100%. See also matteo who has a great uae dial 1675 with colour change for sale just now: http://www.network54.com/Forum/20767...+BIG+RED+DIALS

Not cheap though!

[waspy1]

For the true vintage look I'd recommend going with the 1675/8 as it has the plexi crystal which is a warmer look than the flat sapphire crystal of the 16758. Some folk can't stand the slow set movement though which means you either live with the date being wrong, spend time winding and winding to get the date correct or keep it wound by wearing or a auto winder.

[Suhr19]

Yea that is quite a high price! I am torn between the 1675/8 and the 16758. Generally speaking, does the black nipple dial model command a lower price than the brown or root beer colored dial models? It seems Jacek's inventory has had more of the latter than the former. But the black dial models seem to have less demand...

[waspy1]

Not aware that the black dials are less sought after. Wouldn't really consider it, just personal preference.

[mdw3]

I have a bin full of unwanted black dials and bezel inserts that I have had to change to brown per customers' requests in recent years. Brown dials definitely are more desirable in the market for several years, and tend to bring marginally more money as a result.

Michael

[NutNut]

You might find this to be a good link for information: http://www.gmtmasterhistory.com/

[Suhr19]

I feel silly asking this but despite that useful link,NutNut, I cannot confirm that case thickness over the years of the 1675/8 and 16758 remained the same. Can someone help me out? I can almost swear that the early 1675/8 had a thinner case...

[Suhr19]

Old thread but new question: did the 1680/8 ever come without a flip lock bracelet? It appears that the original 1675/8 did come originally with a non lock oyster bracelet in its early years.

[rolstaff]

Old thread and another two questions:

- does the 1675/8 dials fit also for the 16758 ??

- nipple dials of 16758: Are there two different dials, colour change and dark brown (no colour change) or only colour change dials ??

Thanks for information. Photos would be great…..

[waspy1]

1675/8 uses 1575 movement and 16758 uses 3075 movement. They have different mounting feet on the dials so not interchangeable.

You'll find that 1675/8 nipple dials have applied gold coronet while the 16758 has a printed coronet.

16758 nipple dials are not available in a matte style like 1675/8, all are gloss. There are a couple different styles, one dark and one bright copper (which I believe may be service replacement nipple dial)


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[rolstaff]

Thank you, that helps !!!