Richard Mille trolling ;)

[horseco]

Originally Posted by patek.wis

I see them as the 'Franck muller' of this decade. Wait ten years and I don't think they'll be relevant. I'm sorry in advance but I truly believe this.

AP on the other hand. Awesome :)

I must agree...

[Marrk]

I saw this bad boy in Beverly Hills and, I must admit, it caught my eye.

http://www.chrono24.com/en/richardmi...-id1501270.htm

[boursachi]

Originally Posted by mrarchiegoodwin

I went from AP to RM. Big differences in my experience.

WOW that sucks, sorry to hear! what you described reminds me of how some car dealers are like over here

can you please explain what happened with RM005 FM?
i read that sometimes the whole movement needed to be swapped (RM010 movement installed)

Originally Posted by horseco

I am sorry the RM looks cheap to me, like some Chinese franken watch. The AP, PP, Zenith ect. look the part of a handmade time piece.

whoa .. seriously?! :) which model are you talking about? the ones i saw were brilliant in terms of finishing and quality .. and i am talking about the case alone, the skeletonization is another story

very interesting you would think that!

Originally Posted by texex91

Maybe its just me, but if u can afford RM, don't think any service cost is really a factor.
Could be wrong.

hehe i know what you mean BUT i still am not sure what anyone would need the service for or why it would be required .. unless we are talking about an elective service for the case/refinishing of exterior

or are we talking about the movement not working properly?!

[mrarchiegoodwin]

Originally Posted by horseco

I am sorry the RM looks cheap to me, like some Chinese franken watch. The AP, PP, Zenith ect. look the part of a handmade time piece.

I agree 100% that it looks cheap and that's why I got it!

It replaced my everyday IWC MkXII (that is now, again, my everyday watch--it's platinum but it looks cheap, especially with its $20 Lorica band) because I got excited about the RM story: former bigwig at Mauboussin developing his own watch brand with Renaud & Papi. I was an AP fan who got tired of the continuous introductions of new, cosmetic LEs. RM was a new watch by makers of AP--an AP for the 21st Century. When I saw the RM005 FM Ti I was delighted by how much its finished resembled plastic--stealthy luxe.

Everyone in my town (not a fancy place) believed me when I told them it's a cheap plastic watch. Friends in Spain knew what it was instantly. One subsequently bought an RM chronograph that is way too expensive and conspicuous for me, but he can afford it and the accompanying lifestyle.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

can you please explain what happened with RM005 FM?
i read that sometimes the whole movement needed to be swapped (RM010 movement installed)

I don't know what happened to my RM005 FM. I'm too cheap to pay full price so I got one used at a slight discount. I wore it every day for 4 years with no trouble. More accurate than my (admittedly rather inaccurate) IWC MkXII. I have never worn a watch that fit my skinny wrist so well.

It started to slow down and then it finally stopped. Winding it did nothing. Because RM did not give me any paperwork for the service done to the watch I don't know what was fixed or replaced. I don't even know what RM charged for the service versus how much the Beverly Hills AD charged for handling--there wasn't even that paperwork. But since you mention the possibility of RM swapping the movement I think that might have been done. When the watch was returned not only did the crown feel attached again, but the rotor operated differently. Previously (and this was remarked by others at the time) the RM rotor spun so fast and made such a whirring noise that it was almost a sci fi experience. After the service it didn't do that anymore.

I also asked for the case to be refinished because I scratched it. Nope. That particular gray Ti coating cannot be refinished and restored. It can only be polished--resulting in an entirely different look. Preferring the original dull gray plastic look I opted to live with the scratches.

I understand fake RM005s have been made. I would not want one, but realize they may be a source for inexpensive watch bands and such dealers might sell me a tool for the unique star shaped bolts.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

i will admit however that i was adamant on a 5726 as a next watch, until i tried on a 5102 and asked myself shouldn't my first and probably only patek which will be the jewel of my humble collection a ROUND one? and in PLATINUM since it's my favourite ELEMENT and not just metal? (i do not wear gold so that limits my choices from PP as well).
right now, i think i am fixated on a 5130p because unfortunately the 5131's dial is not made in platinum :( is it?!?!!

Sorry I don't know how to post pictures yet.

I agree with you about platinum. I entered the watch world when I got a big bonus and decided to treat myself for the first time to a fine watch. I bought an AP Jules Audemars chronograph in yellow gold. I loved that watch. After over a year I realized I never wore gold anything, prefer gray metal and my watch should not be gold just because it was the traditional reward for hard work. Into the sock drawer.

I came across the predecessor of my Jules Audemars (but I don't know what it's called--its not the Classique) in platinum with a medium gray dial. It was almost impossible to tell the time and the subdials were invisible, but what a classy watch! I wore that over 2 years before it stopped and I sent it to AP in Clearwater. I liked it so much I got another one with a white dial. They weren't expensive. Nobody seemed to want them.

Now I am back to wearing my trusty IWC MkXII (platinum case). I like the look of platinum, but think I would be just as happy with titanium since I don't use my watch as a paperweight. However, if your interest is Patek Philippe I suspect platinum would be the most appropriate case material. I haven't seen Patek offered in stainless steel in a long time and never in titanium. There's also white gold and you might find that small components of a platinum cased Patek are white gold (because it is much easier to work than platinum).

For now, for the first time, I am focused on Rolex.

[h999r]

Originally Posted by horseco

I am sorry the RM looks cheap to me, like some Chinese franken watch. The AP, PP, Zenith ect. look the part of a handmade time piece.

It look cheap in the picture but not in person. But everybody has his own opinion, I love my RM011 and I will always keep it for my collection.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by mrarchiegoodwin

Into the sock drawer.

That must be a hell of a sock drawer to include an AP EOD and JA Chrono!

[horseco]

I am not a fan of over sized watches, they lack an elegance in my opinion. I believe the giant watch, small wrist trend will be short lived. I have seen many watches in Chinatown NYC for $50, that have very similar look to the RM, meaning very big & thick. I guess I just equate over sized with trendy/cheap. Just my opinion, I have been known to be wrong in the past...

[h999r]

I used to collected small watches until I saw AP ROO and felt in love at the first sight, after that small watches never attract me , and I sold all my small watches and buying bigger size watches , except for my PP watch.
But the good think if its really happen the bigger watch died , I will never buy a new watch again :)) so I can safe more money :))

[fabini]

Rm012

[h999r]

Originally Posted by fabini

Rm012

This is one of my grail watch :) and doesnt look cheap at all

[DS_Obsessed]

Not to hijack this threathink made me think of this Jay z line, "had a Mueller but I switched it to a Mille". That is all.

[TSW]

Originally Posted by mrarchiegoodwin

Did my reply post? Maybe not.

I went from AP to RM. Big differences in my experience.

AP service in Clearwater was so kind. I spoke to 3 staff there about fixing my old chronograph. It was fixed and returned to me beautifully packaged and with 5 pages of explanation and the old parts.

The RM AD in Beverly Hills (my town doesn't have an AD) was snooty (the opposite of the RM Boutique in Hong Kong) to me and acted as though it was a nuisance to send my watch (RM005 FM Ti) to the factory in Switzerland for service. I heard nothing for 6 weeks until the AD phoned and I arranged to have it mailed to me. It arrived in a big mailing box with no packing inside--just my Tupperware rolling around with the watch. No paperwork, no parts, no explanation. The watch was working again, but the attitude and lack of paperwork were disappointing. Not wanting to go through that again, I retired the watch to my sock drawer.

Another not so wonderful RM experience: I had to get a new band and the Carmel AD sold me 2 in different colors. Afterword I realized could not change the band myself. That requires RM tools that are not for sale.

Sorry to hear about that bad service experience.
Myself have never had any issues with RM after sales, Prompt answers and and quite quick service times.

The key for changing straps should have been in the box for your RM005.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

Sorry to hear about that bad service experience.
Myself have never had any issues with RM after sales, Prompt answers and and quite quick service times.

The key for changing straps should have been in the box for your RM005.[/QUOTE]


Thanks, very much for the information. It was such a big box I should have realized there was more inside (such as a second watch?). If I can find the box I will rummage through it.

I liked the Hong Kong RM Boutique staff and think I would have gotten excellent service from them. Lack of paperwork made me wonder if the issue lay with the AD rather than RM. I dreaded confronting that snooty clerk again. On the other hand I pictured a Beverly Hills grande dame berating her, thought that must happen routinely and it made me feel sorry.

Again, thanks for the information.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

First attempt at attaching pictures.

Follow up on Richard Mille. After participating in this stream I decided to dig up the old RM005 from the sock drawer. I had not worn it in nearly 4 years. I wound it up and it worked great and such a comfortable watch due to light weight and slightly curved case. It really is a nice watch.

Today at lunch the leather of the band fell from the metal part that attaches to the case. The drop was less than 12" onto table cloth so no harm was done. Embarrassing though. My companions believed me when I dismissed it as a very cheap watch. I will search for the box and hope the tools are in it to remove the band. Wonder if it can be re-glued--this is rather tacky in more ways than one.

I'm more concerned about seeing if the pictures posted.

RC

[Evil bendy]

Tried this baby on a few days ago - just left me speechless - not sure of drop 200K on it - I'd rather just buy a Ferrari..lol

Didn't know where else to stick the pics so here you go if there are any RM fans here!

[Evil bendy]

Originally Posted by steelerfan65

well i have come real close to getting an rm 11 ti but in the end just couldn't pull the trigger. I ended up with a patek 5960p instead and decided if i want a fun weekend watch i will turn to my rbii ti which i much prefer. I understand the allure but still have too many questions about their future and demand over the years etc.
Cheers,

+1!

[h999r]

Originally Posted by Evil bendy

+1!

awesome diver !

[Marrk]

@evil and @archie: Those are nice watches!

How about the famous sapphire crystal RM 056? Some thing of an achievement and a logical extension of one of the most characteristic features of RM, i.e., sapphire crystal dials.

http://www.ablogtoread.com/richard-m...crystal-watch/

[BABKA]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Well I have come real close to getting an RM 11 Ti but in the end just couldn't pull the trigger. I ended up with a Patek 5960P instead and decided if I want a fun weekend watch I will turn to my RBII Ti which I much prefer. I understand the allure but still have too many questions about their future and demand over the years etc.
Cheers,

Good point Ken and while I think the RM011 looks terrific, side by side the RB2 looks substantially cooler.

[BABKA]

boursachi's last pic is terrific and a great pic in the wild. The RM011 Feilpe Massa is one stunning watch.

[herbie911]

RM watches looks fantastic but I will never contemplate over a PP or AP with complications.
PP and AP are founded by watchmakers and their works are pure art!
Richard Mille himself is a marketing man and there is no history behind their creation. Their watches seem cold and lacking that extra 'x' factor. It's a bit like comparing Bugatti (GERMANIC) against a V12 Ferrari or V12 Lambo. The Bugatti is faster, more expensive, more exclusive and looks more dramatic but I feel more special in an Aventador!

[alxforschnr]

[QUOTE=SteelerFan65;3495039]Well I have come real close to getting an RM 11 Ti but in the end just couldn't pull the trigger. I ended up with a Patek 5960P instead and decided if I want a fun weekend watch I will turn to my RBII Ti which I much prefer. I understand the allure but still have too many questions about their future and demand over the years etc.
Cheers,[/QU


Second that!!!!

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by herbie911

RM watches looks fantastic but I will never contemplate over a PP or AP with complications.
PP and AP are founded by watchmakers and their works are pure art!
Richard Mille himself is a marketing man and there is no history behind their creation. Their watches seem cold and lacking that extra 'x' factor. It's a bit like comparing Bugatti (GERMANIC) against a V12 Ferrari or V12 Lambo. The Bugatti is faster, more expensive, more exclusive and looks more dramatic but I feel more special in an Aventador!

Points well taken.

I think the price on the Richard Milles is the hammer on the gong of caution (nice metaphor, eh?). If RM was less Bugatti-like in its pricing, it might be a less daunting purchase. Also, the foregoing statements about RM as a manufacture are well made. RM has yet to establish itself as a first-tier manufacture. Maybe it will. Let's not forget that Patek, and even Rolex, did not always use their own movements and ébauches....

[mrarchiegoodwin]

Originally Posted by Marrk

@evil and @archie: Those are nice watches!

How about the famous sapphire crystal RM 056? Some thing of an achievement and a logical extension of one of the most characteristic features of RM, i.e., sapphire crystal dials.

http://www.ablogtoread.com/richard-m...crystal-watch/

Thanks, Mark, for the link. Everyone has probably wondered, "If the sapphire crystal is so durable why not use it to make an entire case?" It's the sort of challenge AP would relish. I wonder if AP participated in the creation of the RM 056. The two watchmakers are so closely related and AP has greater resources for R&D.

I'm curious about the author's comment that it's sad the crystal case would not get as much attention as gold or diamonds. Why would someone who can afford $1,650,000 for a watch want it to be noticed? Wouldn't such people have enough confidence in their own achievements? Can you imagine Carlos Slim, Oprah Winfrey, Li Ka Shing, George Soros, etc., wanting their watch to be noticed?

Over a decade ago, The Economist reported on a watch with a crystal made of a single pink diamond offered for sale in Hong Kong. I believe it was by Chopard and the price was around USD1.2 million (or was it USD2.1 million?). There was a tradition in the 3rd (or 2nd) world of possessing artillery sized jewelry and that was mainly due to regional instability--jewels being portable. Nowadays the tradition has been taken up by Hong Kong's tai tais probably more for their own pleasure than practicality.

Back to the RM 056. Since my watch band detached (post above) I have been thinking about RM bands. The RM 056's clear band (I hope that's not plastic!) reveals the weak link: RM's attachment system requires a metal piece between the case and the band. That's fine if the band is metal and can be fused or interwoven, but what about RM's usual choice of materials? Even on the RM 056 it appears that the fastener between the band material and the metal is glue (glue?) because there don't seem to be any bolts or articulation.

Watches I have kept in storage for longer than my RM still have their bands intact--even $20 bands such as Lorica. And if they are not intact I can see, for example, if threads are tattered or if leather is frayed. It's impossible to tell with an RM band if failure is imminent. RM's use of glue seems to risk the eventuality of failure--especially for a sports type watch. I have a spare RM band of a different color, but it's as old as the one that broke so I am afraid to use it. On the other hand, I have spare bands for my AP that are much older and I would trust them.

The RM 056 owner can afford to have many watches. Imagine the disappointment (or shock) of putting it on after a few years to have the band become unglued--even worse if it is presented as a gift to someone after being kept in a safe. I can't imagine the fallout from such an incident.

Thanks, again, for the link.

RC

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by mrarchiegoodwin

Thanks, Mark, for the link. Everyone has probably wondered, "If the sapphire crystal is so durable why not use it to make an entire case?" It's the sort of challenge AP would relish. I wonder if AP participated in the creation of the RM 056. The two watchmakers are so closely related and AP has greater resources for R&D.

I'm curious about the author's comment that it's sad the crystal case would not get as much attention as gold or diamonds. Why would someone who can afford $1,650,000 for a watch want it to be noticed? Wouldn't such people have enough confidence in their own achievements? Can you imagine Carlos Slim, Oprah Winfrey, Li Ka Shing, George Soros, etc., wanting their watch to be noticed?

Over a decade ago, The Economist reported on a watch with a crystal made of a single pink diamond offered for sale in Hong Kong. I believe it was by Chopard and the price was around USD1.2 million (or was it USD2.1 million?). There was a tradition in the 3rd (or 2nd) world of possessing artillery sized jewelry and that was mainly due to regional instability--jewels being portable. Nowadays the tradition has been taken up by Hong Kong's tai tais probably more for their own pleasure than practicality.

Back to the RM 056. Since my watch band detached (post above) I have been thinking about RM bands. The RM 056's clear band (I hope that's not plastic!) reveals the weak link: RM's attachment system requires a metal piece between the case and the band. That's fine if the band is metal and can be fused or interwoven, but what about RM's usual choice of materials? Even on the RM 056 it appears that the fastener between the band material and the metal is glue (glue?) because there don't seem to be any bolts or articulation.

Watches I have kept in storage for longer than my RM still have their bands intact--even $20 bands such as Lorica. And if they are not intact I can see, for example, if threads are tattered or if leather is frayed. It's impossible to tell with an RM band if failure is imminent. RM's use of glue seems to risk the eventuality of failure--especially for a sports type watch. I have a spare RM band of a different color, but it's as old as the one that broke so I am afraid to use it. On the other hand, I have spare bands for my AP that are much older and I would trust them.

The RM 056 owner can afford to have many watches. Imagine the disappointment (or shock) of putting it on after a few years to have the band become unglued--even worse if it is presented as a gift to someone after being kept in a safe. I can't imagine the fallout from such an incident.

Thanks, again, for the link.

RC

1) I assumed that the author meant that the RM 056 would not get as much attention, nor be as desired, in the general marketplace as the precious metal cases. It is easy for some to value gold or platinum, regardless of the watch qua watch.

2) I cannot imagine Carlos Slim. The very name hallucinates.

3) I agree. A glued strap was a mistake on a such a watch.

4) When you consider the engineering that went into the case — at least on the tonneau-shaped RMs — I think we are talking about a company that is deserving of some credit. Perhaps you agree.

[mrarchiegoodwin]

Originally Posted by Marrk

1) I assumed that the author meant that the RM 056 would not get as much attention, nor be as desired, in the general marketplace as the precious metal cases. It is easy for some to value gold or platinum, regardless of the watch qua watch.

4) When you consider the engineering that went into the case — at least on the tonneau-shaped RMs — I think we are talking about a company that is deserving of some credit. Perhaps you agree.

1. You may be correct about the author's meaning. I must have been reading too much into it. The usual response to encountering an expensive object is whether or not it "looks the price"--understatement having been abandoned some time in the 80s. When the author named gold and diamonds (not platinum, that I consider a subtle material) I should not have taken such issue.

4. That's what is so ironic. RM prides itself on employing high tech materials and computer modeling to overcome inefficiencies inherent in the watch's mechanism and the tremendous stresses caused by winding it up. The skeleton case displays RM's artistry and triumph of engineering--with more expensive models featuring structural struts and stays. The curved case looks simple, but is complicated and requires extra processes to manufacture. The crystal alone is an achievement. Oh yes, seeing the RM 005 for the first time rekindled my interest in watches!

But I think RM neglected the band. Designing it so only RM bands would fit seems brilliant financially, but making it to low tech undermines the carefully constructed image. Is all that artistry only for show? Imagine if RM invested the time to devise a watch band that is responsive to ergonomics (comfort of course, but also perspiration from human activity such as Formula One racing) and the physical stresses of a typical wearer's wrist (daily movements stress a band--how many Rolex metal bracelets are "stretched"?). This shortcoming had not occurred to me until I found out how primitive that band is. I usually don't question price (live and let live), but do I want to pay $800 for a new band and have it fall apart in 4-5 years?

I admire the watch and RM's image. The company is probably not interested in bottom feeders like me. But I think even those who can afford a $100,000 watch would be miffed if the band fell apart in such fashion.

Thanks for the discussion--that's what forums are for!

RC

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by mrarchiegoodwin

1. You may be correct about the author's meaning. I must have been reading too much into it. The usual response to encountering an expensive object is whether or not it "looks the price"--understatement having been abandoned some time in the 80s. When the author named gold and diamonds (not platinum, that I consider a subtle material) I should not have taken such issue.

4. That's what is so ironic. RM prides itself on employing high tech materials and computer modeling to overcome inefficiencies inherent in the watch's mechanism and the tremendous stresses caused by winding it up. The skeleton case displays RM's artistry and triumph of engineering--with more expensive models featuring structural struts and stays. The curved case looks simple, but is complicated and requires extra processes to manufacture. The crystal alone is an achievement. Oh yes, seeing the RM 005 for the first time rekindled my interest in watches!

But I think RM neglected the band. Designing it so only RM bands would fit seems brilliant financially, but making it to low tech undermines the carefully constructed image. Is all that artistry only for show? Imagine if RM invested the time to devise a watch band that is responsive to ergonomics (comfort of course, but also perspiration from human activity such as Formula One racing) and the physical stresses of a typical wearer's wrist (daily movements stress a band--how many Rolex metal bracelets are "stretched"?). This shortcoming had not occurred to me until I found out how primitive that band is. I usually don't question price (live and let live), but do I want to pay $800 for a new band and have it fall apart in 4-5 years?

I admire the watch and RM's image. The company is probably not interested in bottom feeders like me. But I think even those who can afford a $100,000 watch would be miffed if the band fell apart in such fashion.

Thanks for the discussion--that's what forums are for!

RC

Bubba's strap seems to be surviving the Tour ok. Maybe it's just the leather straps?

[mrarchiegoodwin]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Bubba's strap seems to be surviving the Tour ok. Maybe it's just the leather straps?

Hi Mike:

Good point! It might be because it's leather.

Prior to that it had the original strap that if I described it eyes would roll. But I will describe it: it was the same color as the watch's metal and in a very smooth, silky matte finish. I was told it's satin over rubber--more appropriate to the head of a house of assignation than a sports watch. Structurally that strap seemed indestructible (I still have it plus an identical spare), but that silky finish began to deteriorate from, no way to be genteel, sweat. It began to look like an old house coat discarded by an inmate of that house (named above).

Further contemplation of the strap failure led to action. I was told by a very prudent watch person to tug on the the intact portion of the strap to see if it would tear off. It didn't. After an initial very gentle tug I began to pull quite hard. So we conclude that the glue on the one end must have been defective. Now I'm not so worried that the spare band will also fail. When my tool arrives (purchased from eBay since I could not find it in the watch box) I will switch to the new old strap and post a picture of happiness with my entry level RM watch.

Thanks for following up.

RC