Jubilee bracelet and endlink options for a YG 1601

[bradleyt09]

Can anyone confirm what the correct Jubilee bracelet/endlink combo is for a yellow gold 1601? I have found a 8386 bracelet with 49 endlinks...is this correct? Thanks for any help. I did a search on this forum and saw the same question asked a few years ago, but no definitive answers.

[offrdmania]

Im pretty sure the bracelet model is correct, but I recall seeing somewhere that a 1601 used a 49b end link

[CTech]

Finding the correct bracelet with the matching end links for any gold Rolex is going to need a lot of research and then a lot of patience waiting for the right one to turn up.

Unfortunately there have been several different models of Jubilee bracelets made in both 14 ct and 18 ct gold and there is a lot of confusion about manufacturing dates, which end links fit which cases, which clasp is correct, etc.

To start looking for the right one, you need to identify if the watch is 14 ct or 18 ct and also find an approximate manufacturing date from the serial number charts.

The next step then would be to hunt through the appropriate Rolex spare parts charts to find a suitable bracelet and the end links that match the case.

For what it is worth, the 8386 bracelet you have found is a concealed clasp model, possibly from the mid 1980s, and it probably has solid end links marked 49B. This marking is on the end face of the end link and so is not visible when the bracelet is fitted to the watch. Somebody might know if you could fit a solid end link bracelet to a 1601 case, but I doubt you can because I think it was designed for cases without holes in the lugs, such as the later 16018.

A 49 end link is normally fitted to bracelets for vintage Daytonas and so is for 19mm lug width cases. A 1601 case is 20mm lug width and so the 49 end links would not be useful.

Depending on the age of the watch, you probably should be looking for a 6251H bracelet with 50, 55 or 255 end links or maybe a later 62510 bracelet with 468B or 491B end links. Both of those have the larger style clasp (not concealed) and should have end links where the code is stamped on the bottom face and so is visible when the bracelet is fitted to the watch.

This is as much of a minefield as anything else relating to vintage Rolex watches and so you either need to find somebody with an appropriate spare parts catalogue and the time to find the right part numbers for you or buy only from a very knowledgeable person who knows exactly what bracelet and end links are best for your needs.

I'm sorry the answer is not easy, but with the cost of gold bracelets you need to be sure about what you want or else you could spend a lot of money for something that doesn't fit properly.

[bradleyt09]

Ugh, and so the confusion continues. Matt, thanks for your reply. Ctech, I really appreciate your detailed response. The endlinks on the bracelet in question are marked 49, not 49B. I have read elsewhere that these are appropriate 20mm endlinks for a 1601, but I can't confirm this. I will ask the seller to measure the endlinks to determine if they are 19 or 20 mm wide. The bracelet does have a hidden clasp and is indeed later than the watch, but there is no date code on the clasp.

[offrdmania]

Thats weird, im showing the 49 and 49b end links to be 20mm, not 19. Im not sure that the poster above realizes that your watch is solid gold since the Jubilee models he posted are in steel. Some hollow steel and solid gold end links have the same numbers so people get confused who are not familiar with the solid gold counterpart. It will depend on the year of the 1601. I am showing the 8386 to be in production from 1977-2000. What is the serial number on the 1601? That should answer a lot of questions.

[bradleyt09]

Thanks for that clarification Matt. I have read the same thing you are saying but was hoping for some definite clarification before purchasing a bracelet. The serial number is 3.97, which dates the watch to ~1975. I think the bracelet with hidden clasp is probably a couple of years later than the watch, but that's no problem as long as it fits. There is no date code on the bracelet/clasp.

[CTech]

Matt, if by the previous poster you mean me, then I did realize the watch in question was solid gold, and I asked for clarification if it was 14 ct or 18 ct.

The bracelet codes I gave were available in gold as well as steel, for example:

The 6251H was made in steel, 14 ct yellow gold and 14 ct pink gold
The 6252H was only made in 14 ct yellow gold and 14 ct pink gold
The 62510 was made in steel, 14 ct yellow gold, 18 ct yellow gold and 14 ct pink gold.

Another part of the confusion is that a lot of these bracelets were not marked with a model number, even up to the late 1970s, and so they are now just known and sold as a gold Jubilee bracelet, not a 62510 in 18 ct yellow gold as Rolex would have specified it.

When you think about it, a 1601 could be bought in steel and various golds, all with the same model number, so why wouldn't the bracelets follow the same pattern?

The modern numbering system specifies the material as well as the model style, but until the mid-1970s it seems as if the model number only specified the style, not the material. So if you wanted a replacement bracelet for a 1500 or 1600 series watch, the jeweler would have to specify 6251H in steel or 6251H in 14 ct yellow gold, etc.

There was an article on millenarywatches.com that gave some insight into the different versions of the Jubilee bracelet and I think they showed some examples from the Rolex parts catalogues with part numbers for the end links, clasps, etc.

The parts catalogues reveal all you would ever need to know about this but the difficulty is finding the correct catalogue in conjunction with someone who is able and willing to wade through the different versions to find what end links should be used for a 3.97 million 1601 from about 1975.

None of this matters to the OP as the chances of finding any of these older Jubilee bracelets are close to zero, so the questions for him are whether a solid end link bracelet designed for a 16018 can fit or be made to fit a 1601 case.

If it fits, the next question is what case the solid end link 49 fits and whether it differs in shape or function from the more normal 49B fitted to the 8386 for a 16018.

The gold Jubilee bracelet was only usually available on either the GMT-Master or the Datejust and the GMT-Master 16758 used 47 solid end links, so there is a good chance the 49 fits the Datejust, and maybe there is just some cosmetic difference such as a polished center section versus all brushed finished links that led to a change in the part number.

These questions could be answered by trying to fit the bracelet to the watch, but I would be reluctant to advise anybody to spend upwards of $8000 on an experiment such as that.

Experts are needed who actually know whether this has worked for them in the past, and so the OP needs to contact dealers well versed in these matters and ask the relevant questions.

The last bit of confusion that I can clear up is that the 49 non solid end link is 19mm whereas the 49 and 49B solid end link is 20mm.

[springer]

I've never heard of a 62510 Jubilee being available in gold.

[CTech]

Some parts catalogues show a 62510 available in gold. Maybe that is for a ladies model and is not the 62510H. Later on there was a 62510D, so that would fit the pattern of H for Hommes and D for Dames. Putting just 62510 as a model could be a typo or a lazy mistake, or it could be that previously the 62510 was the 13mm ladies model and the 62510H was the 20mm men's version. Who knows what Rolex did in the 1960s and early 1970s with their chaotic and irrational system of model numbers and part numbers.

As said before, this is as big a minefield as identifying the correct dials and bezel inserts for other vintage Rolex watches.

[bradleyt09]

Hi Springer, always good to hear from you. The bracelet in question is an 8386. Ctech, thanks for the thoughtful reply. The watch and bracelet are both 18k. I asked the seller to measure the endlinks so I may confirm if they are 19 or 20mm. Assuming they are 20mm, is there any reason why they would not fit properly with the 18k 1601 case? You are right on about this being a potentially expensive "experiment" - I'd like to know if anyone has any experience fitting this bracelet/endlink combo to a gold 1601. Thanks for all the input.

[bradleyt09]

CTech, the seller just confirmed that the 49 endlinks are 20mm. What bracelet would have come on this watch when new? This is an 18k 1601 from ~1975. If I understand correctly, the correct bracelet options would have been 6251H or 6252H, but your comment above suggests these were made in 14k gold, not 18k. Was this watch born on a 14k bracelet or is there another bracelet that was initially sold with the 18k DJ?

[CTech]

If the watch was originally sold with a gold bracelet it almost certainly would have been an 18 ct Jubilee. It might have been sold with a leather strap but unless you have any original sales documents I don't think you will know for sure.

The problem in trying to find the correct bracelet and end links is that the case profile where the end link joins the case is a little different from other models. I don't know if you have looked at this in detail yet, but the radius in that area does not match the radius of the bezel as it would on some other Rolex watches, but has an extra ledge similar to the Day-Date cases.

That makes me think that there were gold Jubilee bracelets made specifically for the Datejusts with non-removable end links. If this is true, the normal bracelets referenced above with removable and interchangeable end links would not be correct.

I'll look through some of the relevant documentation but I'm not hopeful that I can find any reference numbers that are of use. As a lot of bracelets were not marked with a model number it's going to be a nightmare to try and see if any you find for sale are correct based on identifying the subtle difference in the radius of the end link.

I'm afraid that there are very few people around that actually know much about gold Jubilee bracelets so you might not be able to progress beyond trying a few bracelets to see if they fit.

[bradleyt09]

Thank you very much for that explanation. I didn't think it would be so difficult to match a bracelet to the watch, but your explanation makes total sense. With that said, would a president bracelet for an 1803 fit the 1601? BTW, this is probably just an academic question at this point as I think the uncertainty of finding a "correct" gold bracelet makes it a daunting proposition. I think I'll wear it on a strap :)

[CTech]

The question about whether a President bracelet for an 1803 would fit a gold 1601 is interesting, and I think the answer is yes, it will fit.

The reason is in two parts; there are several 1803 Day-Dates around on 18 ct Jubilee bracelets and there are a lot of gold 1601 Datejusts on President bracelets. That indicates that the bracelets are interchangeable and so both cases must have the same lug profile as well as that peculiar step between the lugs.

Some of the 1803s on Jubilee bracelets have been discussed here and on other forums and one or two of them have proof that they were bought new like that from Rolex dealers. Although there were the usual cries of fake, impossible, and so on, the evidence seems to point to the fact that Rolex dealers were willing to fit any available bracelet to a watch if that was what the customer wanted.

The gold 1601s on President bracelets are more difficult to understand as a lot of them have aftermarket bracelets fitted, but there are a few which appear to have genuine Rolex President bracelets. These have almost always been fitted after the original purchase and I doubt whether an authorized dealer would have done that work.

The reason for that is that some knowledgeable commentators claim that up to the mid 1970s when dealers were allowed and willing to swap bracelets there were some guidelines issued by Rolex. One of these was that it was acceptable to downgrade the appearance of a watch, for example make a Day-Date look more like a Datejust, but the dealers were not authorized to do the opposite and make a watch look more like a more expensive model.

Having said all that and opened up the possibility of fitting a President bracelet, there is an 18 ct Jubilee bracelet for sale on ebay that is worth looking at.

This is item number 184631210991 and you can find it with a search for "Rolex Jubilee 18k Yellow Gold Watch Band For Rolex Day-Date/DateJust 20mm". This is from a watch dealer in Edinburgh and he seems to be confident that this will fit both models, but he doesn't say if it would fit a 1601/1803 series or the later 16018/18038 series. This bracelet might not be the exact model that would have been used in 1975, but it is probably the closest you will find in a reasonable time frame.

The end links are marked 53, and the dealer thinks it is from the 1960-1970 period, both of which indicate it is for the earlier 1601/1803 series but you would need to confirm that is true.

[offrdmania]

I don’t think a 53 end link will fit a 1601 correctly as an 1803 most likely has a taller case. The 53’s probably have the same contour shape as the 1601 case but the end link may stick up high on the 1601.

You can ask someone with an 1803 and a steel 1601 to try to install their President bracelet on their date just to see if it fits.

[bradleyt09]

CTech, I really appreciate your help. Thanks for the advice and the link to the ebay listing. I will check it out. You have been a wealth of information and I thank you!

[bradleyt09]

Matt, thanks for that input. I share your concerns as well and think I will probably quit the search and just wear the watch on a strap. There is just too much uncertainty. I appreciate your help!

[miamiclay]

bradleyt09, idk where in FL you are - If you are nearby and interested in perhaps keeping an eye out for a bracelet down the line, I have an 18K Jubilee with 49B end links which you are welcome to try for fit. At least you may learn what does (or doesn’t) work.

[bradleyt09]

Hi Clay, it's good to talk to you again. You helped me out previously with some DD questions. I am in Palm Beach Gardens, just 90 minutes north of you. I look forward to meeting you sometime. I appreciate your gracious offer. I found a reasonably priced 8386 for sale with 49 (20mm) endlinks. If the buyer allows returns, I may go for it just to have a "matching" bracelet even though it is not period correct. Otherwise, I will just wear the watch on a strap. Thank you again!

[Throttle]

Originally Posted by springer

I've never heard of a 62510 Jubilee being available in gold.

Me neither. And i am sure it isnt. Wouldnt be called a 62510 to begin with