What did a 1970 5513 sub come in/with ?

[robbret]

Dear fellow Rolex enthusiasts,
Please forgive me if this question has been asked/answered before.

It seems the term “full set” is applied loosely by some vendors.

Can anyone tell me what a full set for a 1970 ref 5513 would have been at the time ?

[dhknola]

These days "full set" is mildly ambiguous, but generally it includes: box, papers, hang tag, and anchor.
Sometimes they call it a 'super full set' if you have inner and outer box, original sales slip, calendar and any other ephemera originally sold with the box.

[robbret]

Thanks, but I was looking for more specific info: which outer box ? which box ? what papers etc.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by robbret

Thanks, but I was looking for more specific info: which outer box ? which box ? what papers etc.

It's not quite that simple. Watches were sold with the boxes the dealers had. They may've been brand new boxes, they may've been an earlier type of box, but still new (for 1970, it could've been a green stripe outer box, if it was sold in 1970, but if the 1970 dated watch wasn't sold until 1971 or 72 it could've been a seahorse outer box). The inner box could've been a pyramid box w a wood inner top, or with a silk lined inner top. The Booklets could've been dated 1970...or 71. The calendar, the same. You have to remember, a watch w a 70 on the inner case back doesn't mean it was sold in 1970.

The point being....and I learned this myself!....is, you have to research all this on your own. There're too many variables. Looks at some sold complete sets on HQMilton.com as they have tons of sold listings showing full box and papers sets.

Good luck!

[watchlovr]

And which box it was in could also depend on which country it was sold in.

[Styles Bitchley]

All that is said here is totally accurate. Assuming, however, that it was sold in 1970, it would have been the 67.00.3 inner box with wood under the lid with a green stripe outer box. I also don’t necessarily think that “full sets” on HQ Milton are gospel.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

All that is said here is totally accurate. Assuming, however, that it was sold in 1970, it would have been the 67.00.3 inner box with wood under the lid with a green stripe outer box. I also don’t necessarily think that “full sets” on HQ Milton are gospel.

Very true. Many of his "sets" can be just a box and warranty paper, are missing many of the accessories or have the wrong accessories - from boxes, to manuals etc.

[springer]

Here is a 2.9 million GMT set - circa late 1970. The accessories should basically be the same for the Submariner.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by springer

Here is a 2.9 million GMT set - circa late 1970. The accessories should basically be the same for the Submariner.

Not the slotted card box? Or was ‘70 a transition year from those to this one?

[springer]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Not the slotted card box? Or was ‘70 a transition year from those to this one?

The green strip box came with variations of the inner box. Plus when someone writes that a watch is 1970, what exactly does that mean to you?

For me, it means several things. First off, I date watches from 1972 and earlier by their case back numbers. It is much less confusing for me and I know exactly what I'm talking about. No one but Rolex knows for sure when a particular watch was "made" and once you determine when the watch was made, for me, that indicates the year of the watch. Collectors are the ones that are hung-up dating watches and due to that aspect of collecting, there are many charts and variations on web sites, the internet etc that profess to have the magical mystical formula for dating a Rolex. This is well and good but it is definitely confusing to collectors when internet/web site dating charts provide different dating information for the same serial numbers. The earlier watches, prior to the 1980s, are not as easy to date as the later ones.

One thing I have noticed in general from my past experience through several decades and ownership of many vintage sets from the later 1950s through the 1970s is that the sale date for these sets is normally a minimum of two years and as long as three or four years before the watch was sold. What this exactly means is that a 1969 case back GMT or Submariner that is a complete set can have papers dated as early as late 1970 to 1971 and as late as 1972.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by springer

The green strip box came with variations of the inner box. Plus when someone writes that a watch is 1970, what exactly does that mean to you?

For me, it means several things. First off, I date watches from 1972 and earlier by their case back numbers. It is much less confusing for me and I know exactly what I'm talking about. No one but Rolex knows for sure when a particular watch was "made" and once you determine when the watch was made, for me, that indicates the year of the watch. Collectors are the ones that are hung-up dating watches and due to that aspect of collecting, there are many charts and variations on web sites, the internet etc that profess to have the magical mystical formula for dating a Rolex. This is well and good but it is definitely confusing to collectors when internet/web site dating charts provide different dating information for the same serial numbers. The earlier watches, prior to the 1980s, are not as easy to date as the later ones.

One thing I have noticed in general from my past experience through several decades and ownership of many vintage sets from the later 1950s through the 1970s is that the sale date for these sets is normally a minimum of two years and as long as three or four years before the watch was sold. What this exactly means is that a 1969 case back GMT or Submariner that is a complete set can have papers dated as early as late 1970 to 1971 and as late as 1972.

Thanks for elaborating. I’ve usually looked to the case back for dating. It’s very interesting that you say minimum two years from the case back stamp to time of sale. That makes me think of things differently.

[subx]

@springer - with all due respect - shouldn't that box be with the gilded stripes around the green band ? the ones without as pictured seem to be be 72-73

[springer]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Thanks for elaborating. I’ve usually looked to the case back for dating. It’s very interesting that you say minimum two years from the case back stamp to time of sale. That makes me think of things differently.

I think I said normally two years which might not always be the case. I will say that finding a set from the 1960s through the early 1970s that was sold the same year as the case back is not common at all.

[springer]

Originally Posted by rom

@springer - with all due respect - shouldn't that box be with the gilded stripes around the green band ? the ones without as pictured seem to be be 72-73

I didn't buy the watch new. When I purchased it, it was as depicted in the photo I posted. Also, I have never heard the phrase "gilded stripes around the green bands before" so I can't properly answer that question. I do know the green stripe boxes were used during the time frame of the depicted GMT 1675 and aren't specific to one particular inner box.

By the way, the watch was sold during 1972 if I remember correctly.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by rom

@springer - with all due respect - shouldn't that box be with the gilded stripes around the green band ? the ones without as pictured seem to be be 72-73

Originally Posted by springer

I didn't buy the watch new. When I purchased it, it was as depicted in the photo I posted. Also, I have never heard the phrase "gilded stripes around the green bands before" so I can't properly answer that question. I do know the green stripe boxes were used during the time frame of the depicted GMT 1675 and aren't specific to one particular inner box.

By the way, the watch was sold during 1972 if I remember correctly.

Gilded green stripe

[jlovda]

I have a Submariner 5513 purchased at a Rolex dealer in Switzerland in 1970 although it has a 204xxxx serial number which I believe puts it one or two years earlier. I have the original sales receipt but no box. My "warranty" was just filled in on the last page of the little white instruction booklet. I never received a large green warranty certificate that looked like a diploma. Was I cheated?