RIP Kobe Bryant??!?!

[kwcsports]

RIP Mamba

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by GB-man

The police stated they had grounded their helo’s due to conditions that morning. For what it’s worth.

Yeah I saw that. It's a wonder that the pilot made the decision to keep going.

Not sure if most people understand the coastal fog, but it can literally be foggy on one street and sunny on the next as it burns off.

Obviously the closer to the coast the worse it is. It burns off from inland towards the coast. So you can literally go from sunshine, to fog, to fogged in, in a very short distance.

[Point break]

I'm shocked like everyone else. It's still difficult to believe. My heart goes out to all the families involved. Basket ball just lost a genius and a great person
RIP

[Romeojk]

This is from a Los Angeles Times article...

A Sikorsky S-76 chopper, built in 1991, departed John Wayne at 9:06 a.m. Sunday, according to publicly available flight records. The chopper passed over Boyle Heights, near Dodger Stadium, and circled over Glendale during the flight. The National Transportation Safety Board database shows no prior incidents or accidents for the mid-size helicopter.

Kurt Deetz, a former pilot for Island Express Helicopters, told The Times he flew Bryant from 2014 to 2016. Nine times out of 10, he said, Bryant flew in “Two Echo X-ray” — the Sikorsky S-76B, tail No. N72EX, that went down Sunday morning. Bryant favored the model, which is preferred by celebrities for its comfortable interior and solid safety record, Deetz said.

When Bryant retired from the NBA in 2016, he flew out of downtown Los Angeles in the same helicopter, wrapped in a gray-and-black paint scheme with his Mamba emblem on the side, Deetz said.

Deetz suspects the crash was most likely caused by bad weather rather than engine or mechanical issues. “The likelihood of a catastrophic twin-engine failure on that aircraft — it just doesn’t happen,” he said.
Parts of Southern California were enveloped in thick fog as the helicopter made its way from Orange County to Los Angeles. During the flight, the pilot noted he was flying under "special visual flight rules," which allows a pilot to fly in weather conditions worse than those allowed for standard visual flight rules, according to radio communications between the air tower and the aircraft. At some point during the flight, the pilot apparently requested "flight following," a process in which controllers are in regular contact with an aircraft and can help them navigate.

The tower is heard telling the pilot the chopper is too low for flight following before the conversation ends. There did not appear to be a distress call.

A visual flight rules flight "is based on the principle of see and avoid." When operation of an aircraft under visual flight rules isn't safe, often because of inclement weather, a pilot can opt to fly under instrument flight rules. During this type of flight, the pilot navigates only by reference to the instruments in the aircraft cockpit, according to the FAA.

"[Pilots] fly VFR when and if weather conditions allow, although they can choose to fly on an IFR flight plan at any time," said Ian Gregor, a spokesman for the FAA. "Also, it's always up to the pilot to make the decision whether to fly VFR and to ensure the safety of the flight and adherence to federal aviation regulations."


The fog was severe enough Sunday morning that the Los Angeles Police Department’s Air Support Division grounded its helicopters and didn’t fly until later in the afternoon, department spokesman Josh Rubenstein said.

“The weather situation did not meet our minimum standards for flying,” Rubenstein said. The fog “was enough that we were not flying.” LAPD’s flight minimums are 2 miles of visibility and an 800-foot cloud ceiling, he said.

The L.A. County Sheriff’s Department made a similar assessment about the fog and had no helicopters in the air Sunday morning “basically because of the weather,” L.A. County Sheriff Alex Villanueva said.
Witnesses said they heard a roar before the chopper slammed into the hillside Sunday morning.

Jerry Kocharian, 62, was standing outside the Church in the Canyon drinking coffee when he heard a helicopter flying unusually low and seeming to struggle.
“It wasn’t sounding right, and it was real low,” Kocharian said. “I saw it falling and spluttering. But it was hard to make out as it was so foggy.”
The helicopter vanished into the sheet of fog, then there was a boom and “a big fireball,” he said.
“No one could survive that.”

Scott Daehlin, 61, was taking a break from setting up sound for a service at Church in the Canyon, which is below the crash site, when he heard the helicopter overheard.
“Because of its proximity to the ground, I knew something was wrong. It was hovering real low, like they were searching to land. It was making a slow left turn. It was about 9:44 a.m., and then the impact happened. I heard a crunch. I don’t think it pancaked. I think it hit rotors first,” Daehlin said. “I immediately called 911.”




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[juve]

Very sad news. Rip

[Ssunnylee24]

sooo soooo sad...they must have been terrified in last moment.
I get chills by just thinking about it.

[JParm]

Originally Posted by Blansky

Yeah I saw that. It's a wonder that the pilot made the decision to keep going.

Not sure if most people understand the coastal fog, but it can literally be foggy on one street and sunny on the next as it burns off.

Obviously the closer to the coast the worse it is. It burns off from inland towards the coast. So you can literally go from sunshine, to fog, to fogged in, in a very short distance.

I used to fly helos out of San Diego and I would say the biggest thing we worried about was getting socked in somewhere due to fog - easiest thing to do with be to climb and go IFR.

It's always easy to armchair quarterback and second-guess from the comfort of our homes, but to go Special-V and then ask for flight following when others weren't risking the flight that day vice just going IFR is a bit concerning...

[Rebel]

R i p

[StarvingBillionaire]

Watches of Kobe Bryant:


https://www.ablogtowatch.com/the-wat...f-kobe-bryant/

[77T]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

It's always easy to armchair quarterback and second-guess from the comfort of our homes, but to go Special-V and then ask for flight following when others weren't risking the flight that day vs just going IFR is a bit concerning...

I agree - what I also haven’t said is the apparent departure from his routing (follow the 101). Might have been some get-there-itis at play. The delay for traffic + the game tip-off could have been pressing.

An IFR request might have caused a reroute to the West and would have meant a new delay. Yes, concerning.

And now we learn there was no FDR on board - this will be difficult with only transponder pings that disappeared due to low altitude.

LAPD is having trouble with looters now?

So sad

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[Michaeli Paulo]

Like others here, I was saddened to hear of this tragic accident, the loss of lives and the pain and heartache of the loved ones left behind.

Just read this article which offered some consolation for the souls of Kobe and his daughter, as well as their bereaved family members.

Below is an excerpt from the linked article:

Fr. David Barnes of Boston, Massachusetts spread the word that the retired star had been at Mass the morning of his death.

“As sad as Kobe’s death is,” the Boston University chaplain tweeted, “a friend texted me today to tell me that a friend of hers attends the same Catholic church as Kobe and saw him this morning at Mass.”

“There can be nothing more consoling to those who mourn than to know that a loved one worshipped God just before his death because worshiping God is what heaven is.”

The full article:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/ko...87c1-403725377

[smym18]

This one really hurt as he was my favorite athlete growing up. Never expected to shed tears for someone I've never personally met. RIP Kobe.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by 77T

I agree - what I also haven’t said is the apparent departure from his routing (follow the 101). Might have been some get-there-itis at play. The delay for traffic + the game tip-off could have been pressing.

An IFR request might have caused a reroute to the West and would have meant a new delay. Yes, concerning.

And now we learn there was no FDR on board - this will be difficult with only transponder pings that disappeared due to low altitude.

LAPD is having trouble with looters now?

So sad

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I'm guessing he couldn't see it, and was flying blindly for the last few minutes? My comment is in regards to him not following the 101.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by 77T

Might have been some get-there-itis at play. The delay for traffic + the game tip-off could have been pressing.

I'm guessing that no matter what is found that this is going to be an underlying factor whether publicized or not.

When the rich/celebrity/powerful people want something, very often people will go out of their way or past good judgement to get it/do it for them.

Human nature.

Or in this case try and push the envelope a bit.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

I'm guessing he couldn't see it, and was flying blindly for the last few minutes? My comment is in regards to him not following the 101.

I agree he couldn’t see it once he chose to climb. But he changed heading from W to SW to SSE in final minute while gaining altitude at a steep angle all while sightless. Disorientation is top of mind to me.

Pilot was caught between 2 issues - to have VFR flight following, he needed to climb into radar altitude. To climb meant losing sight of the ground and his VFR special ceases.

There are two things one can’t afford to lose: altitude above terrain and ideas. Without the black boxes we will never know what he said in cockpit after last Tx advising of the climb.

Just still so futile to be guessing. The flight data leaves one with more questions.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I'm guessing that no matter what is found that this is going to be an underlying factor whether publicized or not.

When the rich/celebrity/powerful people want something, very often people will go out of their way or past good judgement to get it/do it for them.

Human nature.

Or in this case try and push the envelope a bit.

On the first part, time pressure sometimes causes a loss of situational awareness.

On the second part, I can’t agree. Since he had flown Kobe for years, I don’t think the “rich/celebrity/powerful” angle was an issue. But in the end he did leave the envelope.

Still puzzling due to reports from sources that don’t jibe with the data. Like an article: “The aircraft then started flying faster and descending very rapidly — in excess of 5,000 feet per minute. The last flight data received from the helicopter was at 9:45 a.m.”

When I look at the data he was climbing from 1200’ to 2000’ in last minute. Too many bit and pieces methinks - very common this early. CFIT was my initial thought when I first saw the data and heard the ATC comms. Still is...

I’m sure the transponder may have plummeted at a high rate upon its ejection from the airframe as it contacted terrain at 130+kts.

Within 10 days a prelim report should bring some consensus.


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[mjr24]

This might be a stupid question as I don't know how flying a helicopter works.....but if the pilot was disoriented/couldn't see and didn't know where the elevation started, can't a helicopter hover and then literally just slowly go straight down until it lands on the ground somewhere? Wouldn't that have much better odds than flying up and faster?

I mean, even if they ended up landing on a house, the odds of being safe have to be better?

[77T]

Originally Posted by mjr24

This might be a stupid question as I don't know how flying a helicopter works.....but if the pilot was disoriented/couldn't see and didn't know where the elevation started, can't a helicopter hover and then literally just slowly go straight down until it lands on the ground somewhere? Wouldn't that have much better odds than flying up and faster?

I mean, even if they ended up landing on a house, the odds of being safe have to be better?

Not really. Once a pilot loses visual contact with the ground - and travels any distance - he/she could encounter many obstacles by hovering and descending vertically. There is no margin for error once a rotor clips something like a cell tower, power pylon, or other structure. Remember they were flying 130+kts. so in just 15 seconds they are 1/2 mile further down the road. You don’t know where you are so the kneeboard iPad chart is pretty useless.

But your thought has merit in the opposite direction - hover and ascend in a circular pattern at low speed. Declare IFR and go instrument routing. Sure you’d loose another 15-30 minutes for ATC to plot a solution for the destination. But it could have been safer.

It would be completely different if they were encountering a mechanical emergency and had to make an emergency descent/landing. In those cases the pilot, passengers and innocent civilians in the ground are all at risk.




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[Tommyk]

Its a really odd situation overall. I grew up in Newport Beach and still live and work there so he was always a positive part of the community.
I had the pleasure of running into him a few time and he was always very pleasant person.
Sadly 2 of the residents in my neighborhood were in the crash. I received a letter from the HOA today to make everyone aware of the tragedy that hit closer to home than I realized.

Not to mention I had the privilege to play baseball with the coach who was sadly lost as well.

Not that my experiences make any difference but just sharing a local perspective.

[Rubyrex]

31 American service members died as well in a helicopter crash that day and no one is talking about them!!!!

Are society is morning a life of a great basketball player. How about the people who fight for our freedom.

[cop414]

Tragic yes but that news is from 2005 not 2020.

[JParm]

Originally Posted by mjr24

This might be a stupid question as I don't know how flying a helicopter works.....but if the pilot was disoriented/couldn't see and didn't know where the elevation started, can't a helicopter hover and then literally just slowly go straight down until it lands on the ground somewhere? Wouldn't that have much better odds than flying up and faster?

I mean, even if they ended up landing on a house, the odds of being safe have to be better?

Originally Posted by 77T

Not really. Once a pilot loses visual contact with the ground - and travels any distance - he/she could encounter many obstacles by hovering and descending vertically. There is no margin for error once a rotor clips something like a cell tower, power pylon, or other structure. Remember they were flying 130+kts. so in just 15 seconds they are 1/2 mile further down the road. You don’t know where you are so the kneeboard iPad chart is pretty useless.

But your thought has merit in the opposite direction - hover and ascend in a circular pattern at low speed. Declare IFR and go instrument routing. Sure you’d loose another 15-30 minutes for ATC to plot a solution for the destination. But it could have been safer.

It would be completely different if they were encountering a mechanical emergency and had to make an emergency descent/landing. In those cases the pilot, passengers and innocent civilians in the ground are all at risk.




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That's something we're never taught to do - come to an hover and slowly make your way down. It takes a lot of power to hover out of ground effect (HOGE), and it's just as bad to blindly start coming down without any awareness for what's around you.

It's incredibly disorienting as well to get socked in with fog / weather. If you've been flying VFR around socal and you all of a sudden get swamped by the weather (it happens quick), your sense of direction gets lost almost immediately unless you start hawking your gauges.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

That's something we're never taught to do - come to an hover and slowly make your way down. It takes a lot of power to hover out of ground effect (HOGE), and it's just as bad to blindly start coming down without any awareness for what's around you.

It's incredibly disorienting as well to get socked in with fog / weather. If you've been flying VFR around socal and you all of a sudden get swamped by the weather (it happens quick), your sense of direction gets lost almost immediately unless you start hawking your gauges.

We lived on the central coast of CA for a year. The marine layer is unique to the area, and can be very thick at ground level some mornings and not burn off until the mid day hour. There is nothing like it here on the east coast.

[JParm]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

We lived on the central coast of CA for a year. The marine layer is unique to the area, and can be very thick at ground level some mornings and not burn off until the mid day hour. There is nothing like it here on the east coast.

We used to do ammo and cargo runs right off the coast to the carriers and LHDs, and there would be days where we would brief at 6 am and not get off the ground until 12 as we waited for the marine layer to burn off.

Then you had other days where you had to rush back to beat it at sunset.

[77T]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

That's something we're never taught to do - come to an hover and slowly make your way down. It takes a lot of power to hover out of ground effect (HOGE), and it's just as bad to blindly start coming down without any awareness for what's around you.



It's incredibly disorienting as well to get socked in with fog / weather. If you've been flying VFR around socal and you all of a sudden get swamped by the weather (it happens quick), your sense of direction gets lost almost immediately unless you start hawking your gauges.

I think you misread my post.

I was suggesting the correct method is to ask for a pop-up IFR clearance to the destination airport. It could have been a good move and not a minute too soon. At his speed of 134kts. - in 2 minutes he had gone another five miles in what became solid IMC to their demise.

Hover and rise to radar range is the correct answer - he was at 1200’, couldn’t see the ground, needed to hit 2500’ to ping, and had terrain around (without TARS onboard).


[edit: I just read the charter company wasn’t certified for IFR per Kobe’s previous pilot. If that is true, my suggestion would have required a pan pan pan - and then an embarrassing admission. Sorry I hadn’t read this article before replying: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyb...#19f9e18a26ea]

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[Andad]

Did I read in that article that the pilot was an instrument flight instructor?

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Rubyrex

31 American service members died as well in a helicopter crash that day and no one is talking about them!!!!

Are society is morning a life of a great basketball player. How about the people who fight for our freedom.

Jeez...get your facts straight...

Do you REALLY think that 31 Sevice Members killed in a helicopter crash would go unreported?

[JParm]

Originally Posted by 77T

I think you misread my post.

I was suggesting the correct method is to ask for a pop-up IFR clearance to the destination airport. It could have been a good move and not a minute too soon. At his speed of 134kts. - in 2 minutes he had gone another five miles in what became solid IMC to their demise.

Hover and rise to radar range is the correct answer - he was at 1200’, couldn’t see the ground, needed to hit 2500’ to ping, and had terrain around (without TARS onboard).


[edit: I just read the charter company wasn’t certified for IFR per Kobe’s previous pilot. If that is true, my suggestion would have required a pan pan pan - and then an embarrassing admission. Sorry I hadn’t read this article before replying: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyb...#19f9e18a26ea]

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My reply was more towards the person asking about popping into a hover and coming down. I think we're on the same page.

[77T]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Did I read in that article that the pilot was an instrument flight instructor?

Yes - but he didn’t operate many hours in IFR once he became Kobe’s pilot. I know that sounds odd but the company for which he flew did not want to maintain an IFR certification for their outfit.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by jpeezy14@hotmail.com

My reply was more towards the person asking about popping into a hover and coming down. I think we're on the same page.

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