600M Spring Drive Seiko +-1sec/day

[mfer]

So what do you guys think of the SBDB001 made by Seiko?

It is one tough looking diver and BIG and GMT. I just think it looks like a bargain (about 3000 new) and I love the tech behind this mechanical watch. I mean, they are guaranteed to be +-1sec/day or +-15sec/month!!!!!!!!!!!

Here are some specs
* Spring Drive movement accurate to about 15 seconds per month or better with a 72 hour power reserve and automatic winding.
* 24-hour hand for GMT functionality.
* Date.
* Power reserve indicator.
* Bright titanium construction with a screw-down caseback.
* Titanium bracelet with a double locking clasp and diver extension.
* Sapphire crystal.
* Water resistant to 600 meters (almost 2,000 feet).
* 45mm in diameter, 17mm thick.


Here is a review from someone on TZ
TZ Review of SBDB001

Here is a pic for you guys who don't want to click the above.

[Thomas Carey]

I have really been wanting a Spring Drive for quite awhile. The only thing that is stopping me is the price. I just can't swing it at the moment.

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey

[RW16610]

Gotta admit it is a very nice watch but you said about $3,000.00 USD new? No way dude..... For me personally I would save more and go pre owned Rolex or Omega. Althought it is all a question of personal prefrece. Again, nice watch though

[mfer]

Originally Posted by RW16610

Gotta admit it is a very nice watch but you said about $3,000.00 USD new? No way dude..... For me personally I would save more and go pre owned Rolex or Omega. Althought it is all a question of personal prefrece. Again, nice watch though

I hear you on pre-loved Rolex, but I think this Seiko is on par with Omega. Seiko is all in-house movements and this one is revolutionary. Don't get me wrong at all. Omegas are the bomb , but I'd rather have an in-house movement instead of a base ETA. Same way with Panerai. If I get one, it will have a JLC or in-house movement in it.

Part of the reason for the higher cost of these is that not many are made and unlike other Seiko's, they are handmade. I kind of like the fact that I don't have to worry where I would wear this watch. I mean, don't think many people would mug or kidnap me for a Seiko!!!


If they only knew.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Well, personally I don't like a PR indicator on a diver's watch. It makes the dial too busy.

Also, those lugs with a gemstone (?) on them are totally wrong on a diver's watch.

Any "good old Rolex" can match the precision or even do better.

72 hours PR? Rolex Daytona has that, too.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by mfer

I hear you on pre-loved Rolex, but I think this Seiko is on par with Omega. Seiko is all in-house movements and this one is revolutionary. Don't get me wrong at all. Omegas are the bomb , but I'd rather have an in-house movement instead of a base ETA. Same way with Panerai. If I get one, it will have a JLC or in-house movement in it.

Part of the reason for the higher cost of these is that not many are made and unlike other Seiko's, they are handmade. I kind of like the fact that I don't have to worry where I would wear this watch. I mean, don't think many people would mug or kidnap me for a Seiko!!!


If they only knew.

Well in the end that is all it comes down to, the fact that the watch is special to you and meets your needs. For me i'll have to admit i'm all about Rolex because of all it combines. The history, prestige, quality, durability etc is among the best.

A more exclusive Seiko is great for you if as you pointed out more like a "sleeper" watch where people would in a lot of cases see what brand it is and underestimate the value. That can be great if you like but in my eyes it makes no difference. A well made watch is a well made watch period. People who do not even know much about watchs can also tell just from looking at them the majority of the time.

Never understood why but people seem to relate size to that as well like was pointed out in a watch review from breitling source. If you can find a good deal on a pre owned one go for it, but really would avoid paying the $3,000.00 + tax for that.

For me thought i'm all about brand, there are very few watch brands I could see myself owning now other than stuff like Rolex of course and Patek. Those things give me the kid in the candy store feeling and an empowering feeling having a bunch in my safe.


Have to agree with SPACE-DWELLER, mainly because of what Rolex offers and the cost of a pre own even in pawn shops. $4,000.00 - $4,500.00 CAD for a used Submariner. Would put in what ever over time, make any sacrtifice necessary to get the watch instead as it is an icon in the industry. Like I said before thought in the end it does not matter because it is your money, your choice and once you feel happy and get a quality item enjoy it

[SLRdude]

Originally Posted by SPACE-DWELLER

Any "good old Rolex" can match the precision or even do better.
.

And this is the first time I disagree with Bo.
There is no way you would EVER find a contemporary Rolex to be as precise as a Spring Drive.
The longest I have ever let mine go without resetting it was about 6 months and it was still within about half second of the atomic time. And that's with no regards about positioning, crown up... crown down... etc.

And that's a screw/bolt not a gemstone (although it looks like one somewhat).

[Steven79]

yuck that thing is hideous. im sorry, but whats wrong with that bracelet??!

I agree with Space-Sweller 100%

:shudder:


you have to be out of your mind to pay $3800 for a seiko. Id rather buy a nice TV or go on vacation.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by mfer

(...) I mean, they are guaranteed to be +-1sec/day or +-15sec/month!!!!!!!!!!!

Here are some specs
* Spring Drive movement accurate to about 15 seconds per month or better with a 72 hour power reserve and automatic winding.(...)

Originally Posted by SLRdude

(...)There is no way you would EVER find a contemporary Rolex to be as precise as a Spring Drive.(...)

Well, when I read the accuracy of the Spring Drive stated in the post above, imho a well-regulated Rolex watch can indeed match that precision. Several members have reported here that their Rolex has neither lost nor gained one single second for months. Although I have not been too lucky with my recent Rolex acquisitions, having both my SD and SS Daytona running ~ 2 secs. slow/day, I did have an SS Sub Date for a time that neither lost nor gained one single second over a full 3 month period.

Having stated that, imho the Seiko Spring Drive actually can do better than "]+-1sec/day or +-15sec/month". As far as I know, the accuracy specs of the Spring Drive are better than that.

That I don't see how +/- ONE second a day can result in +/- FIFTEEN secs. a day, is a different story.

[busa180]

[QUOTE=SPACE-DWELLER;627674]

Also, those lugs with a gemstone (?) on them are totally wrong on a diver's watch.

Any "good old Rolex" can match the precision or even do better.

QUOTE]

Dude,im sorry,but i will have to call B*** S*** on that. I personally own two spring drive watches as part of my collection, and as hard as it may be for ME to accept it(being a Rolex NUT at heart),the spring drive blows it away in the time keeping accuracy department. Even a modern Rolex,never mind a GOOD OLD ROLEX does not even come close to the accuracy of these watches. They also have the most silky smooth sweep movement i ahve ever seen. Those "gemstones" are actually the system that attach the bracelet to the watch case.

[Jedi]

Another vote for the Spring Drive here. I'd get one of those Seiko Marinemaster Spring Drive's if they sold them here in a jiffy.

the movement is truly innovative and in terms of precision, it outperforms ANY mechanical movement same as a quartz movement would. We should not get carried away with our love for Rolex at the exclusion of accepting and celebrating differences.

As for the precision of Rolex, it is difficult for me to fathom just how a mechanical piece can keep time without dropping or gaining for 3 months straight in a linear fashion. Some form of compensation due to positional variance and such would have to be invoked for a mean deviation rather than outright rate maintenance.

[Terry Newton]

Beautiful Seiko with amazing accuracy. Nice watch. The Spring Drives are truly innovative.

Wear it in good health.

Terry Newton

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

Beautiful Seiko with amazing accuracy. Nice watch. The Spring Drives are truly innovative.

Wear it in good health.

Terry Newton

I agree with Terry. It's quite a clever approach.

Unsure if that accuracy is "required" but STRONGLY feel no true mech watch can hang with it at +- 1 sec per day. Of course, we've had that debate before. If "any good old Rolex" could match it, we'd have 50% fewer TRF posts here with people NOT asking about the timekeeping of their watches, self-regulating techniques, COSC specs, trips to RSCs, break-in periods, etc. Don't believe me? Just skim the threads.
I like them. Watchtime had a nice review. They didn't seem to like the bracelet though. Here's a couple:
http://www.watchtime.com/archive/wt_...005_06_136.pdf

http://www.watchtime.com/archive/wt_...007_06_214.pdf

[Thomas Carey]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

Beautiful Seiko with amazing accuracy. Nice watch. The Spring Drives are truly innovative.

Wear it in good health.

Terry Newton

I agree fully. I do have to say that I am not one who is concerned with amazing accuracy in a watch. If I was I would have one of those watches that syncs with the Atomic clock. But where would the fun be?

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey

[mfer]

Wow! Didn't mean to start this. I didn't check TRF over the weekend b/c I was so busy. Anyway, thanks for everyones input. Think if I could find a good used one, I'd pick it up. I actually like the look of it very much. It is the only spring drive that I like this much. The others designs are not that appealing to me personally, but this one looks good. Just wish I could see one in the flesh so to speak. These are only sold in Japan.

Anyone who doesn't know what the "spring drive" is can read here. It is basically a mechanical watch in which the balance wheel doesn't oscillate, but only spins in one direction, GREATLY reducing the inertial affects that can lead to inaccuracy.

www.seikospringdrive.com

Also, FWIW, I gladly accept and expect criticisms and take no personal harm from them. That is why I ask them here!!!

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by mfer

Anyone who doesn't know what the "spring drive" is can read here. It is basically a mechanical watch in which the balance wheel doesn't oscillate, but only spins in one direction, GREATLY reducing the inertial affects that can lead to inaccuracy.

www.seikospringdrive.com

Also, FWIW, I gladly accept and expect criticisms and take no personal harm from them. That is why I ask them here!!!

Not to put too fine a point on it because it really is a very nice and unique watch that's hard to put in any previous category, but it has a quartz regulator so I'd be hard pressed to say it's "basically a mechanical watch." Not a criticism, just the fact. Like being a little pregnant--it has a quartz component inside so it's also quartz to me. Even Seiko coined the expression "Mechatronic" to address the hybrid nature of the watch.

[SLRdude]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Not to put too fine a point on it because it really is a very nice and unique watch that's hard to put in any previous category, but it has a quartz regulator so I'd be hard pressed to say it's "basically a mechanical watch." Not a criticism, just the fact. Like being a little pregnant--it has a quartz component inside so it's also quartz to me.

The Swiss watch industry has accepted the Spring Drive as a mechanical watch due to the fact that only about 3 or 4 out of almost 300 components are not mechanical.

The main difference between a fully mechanical and a spring drive is the lack of a conventional escapement. The Spring Drive uses a tiny portion of the energy released by the spring to power a small electro magnetic brake which regulates the rate at which the spring unwinds.

So I would not call that a quartz watch. Kinetic... yeah. That's quartz.

[mfer]

Originally Posted by BigHat

Not to put too fine a point on it because it really is a very nice and unique watch that's hard to put in any previous category, but it has a quartz regulator so I'd be hard pressed to say it's "basically a mechanical watch." Not a criticism, just the fact. Like being a little pregnant--it has a quartz component inside so it's also quartz to me. Even Seiko coined the expression "Mechatronic" to address the hybrid nature of the watch.

Well, that is why I said "basically" a mechanical watch. Mostly mechanical with a little tech! Just difference of wording I guess, but it is not 100% mechanical. More like 98.993434389%

Nothing like a little pregnant!

[BigHat]

Originally Posted by mfer

Well, that is why I said "basically" a mechanical watch. Mostly mechanical with a little tech! Just difference of wording I guess, but it is not 100% mechanical. More like 98.993434389%

Nothing like a little pregnant!

I hope you didn't take it as critical, that certainly was not my intent. I think we all know how the watch is made and how it operates. It's just really not one of the watch types we've become accustomed to. I just have been reading up a bit on these and the professional watch reviewers do NOT consider it to be a mechanical watch. I didn't even think the Swiss bothered to comment on Japanese watches either.

From WatchTime -- note about 80% traditional, not 98.993434389 :
many elements of a classical mechanical
(mainspring, winding system, power-reserve
indicator, etc.). It has no fewer than 30 jewels to
ensure low friction and high accuracy. Of the 276
components in the Caliber 5R movement, 80%
are found in traditional mechanical watches.

Even reading the Seiko literature I couldn't come to the conclusion that it's "mechanical." Here's a clipped portion of their writing on the parts in question, the tri-regulator:

TRI-SYNCHRO REGULATOR. The difference
between Spring Drive and a traditional mechanical
watch is in how the speed of rotation
of the hands is controlled. Mechanical
watches use the back-and-forth motion of
a balance/escapement mechanism to exert
mechanical control. Spring Drive uses a
new device developed by Seiko Epson, the
Tri-synchro regulator, to control the speed
of rotation. This device replaces the escapement
in a tradition mechanical watch. It
consists of a glide wheel, a coil block, an integrated
circuit (IC) and a quartz crystal.The Tri-synchro regulator takes the mainspring’s
mechanical energy and converts a
small part of it into a tiny electric current,
enough to power the quartz crystal. The
precisely accurate reference signal from the
quartz oscillator is coordinated with the
speed at which the mainspring unwinds. It
works as follows:
•The power of the unwinding mainspring
drives the glide wheel connected to
the gear train.
•As the glide wheel turns, the coil generates
electricity. Each regulator coil consists
of 25,000 turns of extremely fine wire so as
to transform the slightest movement of the
glide wheel into electrical energy.
•The electricity powers the quartz crystal
and its IC. The IC is new, designed and
built by Seiko Epson specifically for Spring
Drive. It is the world’s first IC to operate on
so little electricity; just 25 nanowatts is required
to power the circuit and the crystal
resonator. That’s half of the power needed
in a conventional watch circuit. The quartz
crystal produces a very accurate timing signal,
+/- 1 second per day.•The Tri-synchro regulator then adjusts
the speed of the glide wheel and the
hands, using a frictionless electromagnetic
brake. It uses the accurate signal to control
the electromagnetic braking that governs
the speed of the glide wheel so that it rotates
eight times per second.
The Tri-Synchro regulator gets its name
from the fact that it synchronizes the three
kinds of energy used in Spring Drive: the
mechanical power of the mainspring, the
electrical energy created from the mechanical
power that activates the quartz crystal
resonator, and the electro-magnetic energy
that turns the glide wheel.

[mailman]

Does it have a battery that needs to be replaced?

[Thomas Carey]

Originally Posted by mailman

Does it have a battery that needs to be replaced?

Nope =)

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey

[explodingtaco]

Now now Rolex fans, just because a "cheap" Japanese company came up with the most innovative movement since the quartz and it makes us challenge our thoughts of the traditional bicameral classifications of a watch movement is no reason to get nasty.

I classify this watch as the most accurate quartz regulated mechanical watch on the planet.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by explodingtaco

Now now Rolex fans, just because a "cheap" Japanese company came up with the most innovative movement since the quartz and it makes us challenge our thoughts of the traditional bicameral classifications of a watch movement is no reason to get nasty.

I classify this watch as the most accurate quartz regulated mechanical watch on the planet.

And that is perfectly fine. I completly respect you and your opinion on it, feel it is a nice watch but that system is definately not something I would even consider owning. Can completly see why people would like them yes but in my eyes what makes a true mechanical Swiss watch special also is the traditional aspect. The way technology is intergrated into a watch makes it more a short term item. Partly why quartz watches have little collectors value. All that realy matters is the fact it makes the owner happy. To compare a watch that has this system to a traditional Swiss mechanical movement is like comparing apples and oranges. Frankly I could care less if my watch requires re setting at the end of the month. Want them not only to be things that keep my happy and proud but to pass onto the next generation.

Truly is a cool system but nah for me i'll take my traditional Rolex, Omega, Breitling etc mechanical Chronometer movements. The technology is applied in different ways like Parachrom etc. All part of having a timeless watch in my eyes.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Thomas Carey

Nope =)

Best Regards,

Thomas Carey

Then I guess that would make it mechanical.

[Jedi]

Originally Posted by mailman

Then I guess that would make it mechanical.

Chaps, as posted earlier, the movement has a rotor that serves to provide a charge that activates a quartz regulator that provides a braking force on to the movement in order to keep it to within a certain rate of movement, as opposed to a traditional oscillating balance and ecapement system. The power that drives the movement is a main spring, like a traditional movement, but the similarities end there.

[TheDude]

I think a lot of the Springdrives are "a lot of look"... which is to say I think they're a bit busy. The simpler ones are appealing though.

The link below contrasts COSC and Grand Seiko testing parameters. The Grand Seiko standards are actually more stringent than COSC.

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?p=910166


This is the "new" Spring Drive diver - it's actually a Grand Seiko... $6548!!!

[SLRdude]

And HERE IS A MOVIE showing the watch above.
You can see that the attention to detail is exquisite.

[Terry Newton]

That sure is a beautifully finished watch. Great movie even though I couldn't understand a thing they were saying.

Terry Newton

[SLRdude]

Originally Posted by Terry Newton

Great movie even though I couldn't understand a thing they were saying.

Terry Newton

Ditto.

[SPACE-DWELLER]

Originally Posted by TheDude

(...)

It's a matter of personal taste and preference. But as far as design is concerned, imho this GS sure is better looking than the first one shown.