Fake 1665 DRSD being advertised here with falsified papers

[SKMGN0]

We've already read Andrea's account on this fake watch. But if you guys would like to invite him to post here, his Instagram is @pyccy_, he appears to have an account here on TRF but his last sign in was on 2016.

[thesharkfactor]

Just for clarity, is the whole watch fake, or is it just a fake DRSD (ie, a real SD made to look like a DRSD)?

[lx384]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

Just for clarity, is the whole watch fake, or is it just a fake DRSD (ie, a real SD made to look like a DRSD)?

Think only the movement is legit.

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by thesharkfactor

Just for clarity, is the whole watch fake, or is it just a fake DRSD (ie, a real SD made to look like a DRSD)?

Only the movement. Case has re-engraved text and numbers to match the falsified papers.

[rootbeer7]

Before we condemn, perhaps Comex5514_ could give us some background about the watch; from whom and where it was purchased.
It’s not unusual for potential purchasers to find fault in a watch in order to have the price reduced. If his story is true, a neighbour relates that a man visits and says he doesn’t like dial as it’s not correct/had work etc. Don’t forget this man is Italian and the neighbour is passing on what she thinks she hears.
Please, Comex5514_ if we know how you acquired the piece originally, you may be more innocent than it currently looks.
Either way, it’s another frightening story.

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

It’s not unusual for potential purchasers to find fault in a watch in order to have the price reduced. If his story is true, a neighbour relates that a man visits and says he doesn’t like dial as it’s not correct/had work etc. Don’t forget this man is Italian and the neighbour is passing on what she thinks she hears.

Sure, some people do that but in this case, they weren't even haggling. Andrea informed them it was fake, and it is. I'm not sure what you mean by "this man is Italian", Andrea also runs a blog and his English is impeccable. Read here: https://www.vwcltd.com/rolex-rail-di...ancy-nickname/


Let's break Comex5514_'s explanations down.

First he claims this in post #24:

Originally Posted by Comex5514_

After inspection buyer refused to buy and that’s all I knew.

And then suddenly in post #26 he claims:

Originally Posted by Comex5514_

He said that the dial might be refurbished and it's not for him. Such an old watch with a refurbished/repainted dial is not something unusual. That's why I lowered the price. Also, Andrea's was just an expert who did inspection for his client. A client came back to me with the said message, not Andreas.

First he claims the buyer didn't want to buy his watch and that's all he knows but then suddenly on a different post he was told the dial might be refurbished.

So with that knowledge, he didn't even disclose in his then-active for sale thread that the dial might be refurbished, he just quietly "lowered" the price. That alone is scummy. Also, add in the fact that he's used the replica forum's image hosting site. There's so many holes in his story and he's looking extremely suspicious.

If it weren't for me spotting it, some sorry guy would've paid £26k for a Rolex movement with a fake case, dial, and falsified papers.

[Haywood_Milton]

I asked earlier :

"Who sold it to you?

How was it described and do you think you could get your money back?

Where in the UK are you?"

...but none of these reasonable questions seem to have been answered.

Comex5514_, would you like me to inspect the watch for free for you?

Have you now spoken with whoever sold it to you?

If you bought it from a watchmaker, who exactly was it, and when? How did he describe it? Others might wish to know, in case that person is someone to avoid.

[rootbeer7]

Haywood, it is strange he hasn’t responded. It’s easy to condemn someone online without knowing all the facts, but he’s not helping himself here. E

[Comex5514_]

Haywood:

Who sold it to you?
A local watchmaker where I live. He offered me this piece a year ago and I took it as I trust him.

How was it described and do you think you could get your money back?
Yes, I will go and see him today. I am sure he will refund if I show him Andrea's thread. Maybe he made a mistake so I will see what he says.

Where in the UK are you?[/I]"
I live near London

Comex5514_, would you like me to inspect the watch for free for you?
I think everything has been inspected but thanks for your offer. Maybe in the future if I was to buy another piece.

If you bought it from a watchmaker, who exactly was it, and when? How did he describe it? Others might wish to know, in case that person is someone to avoid.[/QUOTE]
If a watchmaker refunds me what I paid I will not expose him for his genuine mistake. I don't think he meant harm as he has his own business. I suppose these things happen and I must admit those differences in the dial is so small that a lot of people can miss them. That watch has been watched by nearly 4000 members on this forum and no one flagged me anything. I appreciate it ended this way as it could of been much worse and then I would of been blamed for more serious claims.

As I said in my previous message, do what you need to do. Ban me, hate me, I am just a collector and NOT AN EXPERT. I wish I had some of your knowledge my self however I don't. For that reason I made macro shots so every expert can judge. I am not trying to hide anything and I welcomed such expert like Andrea with pleasant.

Peace

[cop414]

Many curious members here waiting on your outcome.

[rootbeer7]

Let's give him the opportunity to see what the original seller says.
If indeed, he was innocently sold this piece, responsibility should be that of the watchmaker, who should have known better.
Moving forward, this piece is now tainted and can easily be identified if it hits the market again and that is a good thing.

[swatty]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

Let's give him the opportunity to see what the original seller says.
If indeed, he was innocently sold this piece, responsibility should be that of the watchmaker, who should have known better.
Moving forward, this piece is now tainted and can easily be identified if it hits the market again and that is a good thing.

Well said, I’m still wondering though, does the OP have a 5514 ?

[cop414]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

Let's give him the opportunity to see what the original seller says.
If indeed, he was innocently sold this piece, responsibility should be that of the watchmaker, who should have known better.
Moving forward, this piece is now tainted and can easily be identified if it hits the market again and that is a good thing.

Agreed

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by Comex5514_

Haywood:

How was it described and do you think you could get your money back?
Yes, I will go and see him today. I am sure he will refund if I show him Andrea's thread. Maybe he made a mistake so I will see what he says.

If a watchmaker refunds me what I paid I will not expose him for his genuine mistake. I don't think he meant harm as he has his own business. I suppose these things happen and I must admit those differences in the dial is so small that a lot of people can miss them. That watch has been watched by nearly 4000 members on this forum and no one flagged me anything. I appreciate it ended this way as it could of been much worse and then I would of been blamed for more serious claims.

What did the watchmaker say, Comex5514_? That's a terrible excuse by the way, that's just like scummy ebay listings saying "Buy at your own risk, selling as-is. I have provided all the photos". It also gives you plausible deniability that you had no idea it was fake.

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by Comex5514_

Haywood:

Who sold it to you?
A local watchmaker where I live. He offered me this piece a year ago and I took it as I trust him.

Interesting. You say a year ago? I did a little more digging and guess what I found?



A thread created by "tripdog" on March 2019 on a replica forum detailing the reshaping work done on a 1665 thin case, just like yours! Wow! What a coincidence!

Let's look at some of his other pics (this isn't all of them).

tripdog:



Now let's see your pics.

Comex5514_'s April listing:




Wow, this guy tripdog has a similar set up as you Comex5514_! White backdrop and a black cushion. Interesting. And he's modifiying and reshaping a case to make it a thin case 1665 just like yours! You listed your 1665 for sale on February 2019 right and removed the listing after a while. I wonder why. This guy is posting about working on this case on March 2019.




The 1665 DRSD from your February listing looks a bit soft on the lugs, tripdog's "before" 1665 case looks soft on the lugs too.





Another coincidence, after tripdog finished reshaping his 1665 case this March, the lugs look sharper. Just like the lugs on the 1665 on your new April listing! Did you get your 1665 refinished as well, Comex5514_?




Let's compare your 1665 to tripdog's! Maybe this is just a misunderstanding.



Oh, is that the same 11.70 caseback?




Wow, what's that? Are those the same scratches, dings, and the same end link marks? Amazing coincidence!




I wonder what's more likely, this guy using your photos for reference and copying the scratches 100% exactly or this guy is you/you commissioned this guy to work on your fake 1665, remember you've at least recordedly had that watch on February 2019 and this guy is posting him working on that very same case on March 2019. Pretty funny too that both you and tripdog are using the same image hosting service made by the replica forum owners, picr.me.





Timeline:

February 2019 Comex5514_ posts 1665 DRSD with soft lugs for sale, listing pulled some time after.

March 2019 Tripdog, replica forum user posts reshape work being done on a 1665 thin case.

April 2019 Comex5514_ posts 1665 DRSD for sale again, this time case looks sharper and different.

May 2019 Pyccy/Andrea from Orologi inspects Comex5514_'s 1665, finds out it's fake and informs the owner (Comex5514_).

May 2019 Comex 5514_ bumps his 1665 listing with a price drop with no reason given.

June 2019 Comex5514_ Comex5514_ claims in this thread that the buyer in May gave no reason as to why they didn't want to buy his 1665, a few posts later he claims he was told the dial might be refinished.


Comex5514_ wants us to believe that he had no hand in this fakery and attempted fraud. He was just some poor collector that was scammed by a watchmaker after he bought this 1665 from him "last year", yet here we see the fake 1665 DRSD built, with a fake case, and fake dial, complete with the original box and falsified papers on a replica forum with the fake case being reshaped on March, knowing Comex5514_ has ownership of this fake watch by at least February 2019.


Mods, it's quite clear this guy is lying through his teeth. His story doesn't add up, this guy is a complete scammer and his posts should not be believed.

[Old Expat Beast]

Ok, that'll do it. Comex5514_ has left the building. Thank you SKMGN0.

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Ok, that'll do it. Comex5514_ has left the building. Thank you SKMGN0.

Don't ban him yet, let's hear what excuse he has for this one. Also, I'll pm you the link to thread on the replica forum as proof.

[swatty]

Great detective work SKMGN0

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by swatty

Great detective work SKMGN0

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Ok, that'll do it. Comex5514_ has left the building. Thank you SKMGN0.

This guy might be a sockpuppet account of his too:

Originally Posted by Bishop_

Hello,

Just finished a smooth transaction with Comex5514_. Seller was very honest at all times and his communication was spot on. Recommended

Registered the same month as the scammer, a total of 7 posts wih 6 random posts and 1 vouching for Comex5514_.

-

Again this scammer's contact information is: +44 7506 133965 and pauliustankus@gmail.com.
Archived listings: February listing: https://www.watchpatrol.net/listing/693384/ April listing: http://imgs.fyi/img/859i.jpg

[Vetracer]

Wow, this thread was very educational. It’s made me a bit weary. I’ll be doing every check possible from now regardless of the source.

[thesharkfactor]

Excellent work SKMGN0, you have put some commendable effort into that!

[Haywood_Milton]

SKMGN0, that was good work and I doff my cap.

I see high value watch crime soaring, especially on the fakes / fraud side. Many of the baddies seem to think this fairly low risk, as the chances of getting caught and punished seem minimal.

Saying that, I am involved in two good prosecutions in the UK at the moment.....

Keep up the good work!

H

[Nimszy]

Originally Posted by SKMGN0

Hey all, this little thread caught my attention: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=669791

From a quick glance it looks genuine

You’ve just joined the forum a month ago and have gleaned all this already? You learn fast

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by Nimszy

You’ve just joined the forum a month ago and have gleaned all this already? You learn fast

Ad hominem?

[Nimszy]

Originally Posted by SKMGN0

Interesting. You say a year ago? I did a little more digging and guess what I found?



A thread created by "tripdog" on March 2019 on a replica forum detailing the reshaping work done on a 1665 thin case, just like yours! Wow! What a coincidence!

Let's look at some of his other pics (this isn't all of them).

tripdog:



Now let's see your pics.

Comex5514_'s April listing:




Wow, this guy tripdog has a similar set up as you Comex5514_! White backdrop and a black cushion. Interesting. And he's modifiying and reshaping a case to make it a thin case 1665 just like yours! You listed your 1665 for sale on February 2019 right and removed the listing after a while. I wonder why. This guy is posting about working on this case on March 2019.




The 1665 DRSD from your February listing looks a bit soft on the lugs, tripdog's "before" 1665 case looks soft on the lugs too.





Another coincidence, after tripdog finished reshaping his 1665 case this March, the lugs look sharper. Just like the lugs on the 1665 on your new April listing! Did you get your 1665 refinished as well, Comex5514_?




Let's compare your 1665 to tripdog's! Maybe this is just a misunderstanding.



Oh, is that the same 11.70 caseback?




Wow, what's that? Are those the same scratches, dings, and the same end link marks? Amazing coincidence!




I wonder what's more likely, this guy using your photos for reference and copying the scratches 100% exactly or this guy is you/you commissioned this guy to work on your fake 1665, remember you've at least recordedly had that watch on February 2019 and this guy is posting him working on that very same case on March 2019. Pretty funny too that both you and tripdog are using the same image hosting service made by the replica forum owners, picr.me.





Timeline:

February 2019 Comex5514_ posts 1665 DRSD with soft lugs for sale, listing pulled some time after.

March 2019 Tripdog, replica forum user posts reshape work being done on a 1665 thin case.

April 2019 Comex5514_ posts 1665 DRSD for sale again, this time case looks sharper and different.

May 2019 Pyccy/Andrea from Orologi inspects Comex5514_'s 1665, finds out it's fake and informs the owner (Comex5514_).

May 2019 Comex 5514_ bumps his 1665 listing with a price drop with no reason given.

June 2019 Comex5514_ Comex5514_ claims in this thread that the buyer in May gave no reason as to why they didn't want to buy his 1665, a few posts later he claims he was told the dial might be refinished.


Comex5514_ wants us to believe that he had no hand in this fakery and attempted fraud. He was just some poor collector that was scammed by a watchmaker after he bought this 1665 from him "last year", yet here we see the fake 1665 DRSD built, with a fake case, and fake dial, complete with the original box and falsified papers on a replica forum with the fake case being reshaped on March, knowing Comex5514_ has ownership of this fake watch by at least February 2019.


Mods, it's quite clear this guy is lying through his teeth. His story doesn't add up, this guy is a complete scammer and his posts should not be believed.

That post is extremely well thought out, meticulously researched and eye-pleasingly presented. Did you just throw that together in the 3 hours between posts (“I did a little more digging”) or have you been working on putting this together for weeks?

[SKMGN0]

Originally Posted by Nimszy

That post is extremely well thought out, meticulously researched and eye-pleasingly presented. Did you just throw that together in the 3 hours between posts (“I did a little more digging”) or have you been working on putting this together for weeks?

Just a couple of hours really. Here's the files and the times:





Here's some unsaved .psds from this morning:



By the time I posted this, baiting COMEX5514_:

Originally Posted by SKMGN0

What did the watchmaker say, Comex5514_? That's a terrible excuse by the way, that's just like scummy ebay listings saying "Buy at your own risk, selling as-is. I have provided all the photos". It also gives you plausible deniability that you had no idea it was fake.

I was already wrapping up the images and uploading them. So, what exactly are you trying to suggest here, Nimszy?

[Nimszy]

I’m suggesting that whoever tries to sell a fake watch as real for $50k should face criminal charges. What I can’t figure out is how you fit in to it all. I don’t think you’ve been involved in fraudulent behaviour, but how did you connect the case reworking to a fake watch forum?

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by Nimszy

That post is extremely well thought out, meticulously researched and eye-pleasingly presented. Did you just throw that together in the 3 hours between posts (“I did a little more digging”) or have you been working on putting this together for weeks?

Really? Who cares? A 'sophisticated' scammer, who was still professing innocence and ignorance until yesterday, has been exposed for who he really is. Thats all that matters here.

[Knappo 1307]

OP, great work!

[Noonan]

I hope this thread acts as an eye opener for folks who are in the vintage market and think they'd never get duped by a fake. I feel a good amount of people underestimate the effort being put into these fakes.