5711/1r

[marselluswallace]

Originally Posted by Dlindsay

Watchfinder had one listed for 87750 GBP for a couple of days and now it is gone. Papers were dated 04/2019

Wow that’s incredible.Its seriously tempting to cash in if they are selling for that but I don’t know if I could bring myself to do it.I doubt my AD would be happy if they found out-they bumped me to the front of the waiting list late last year as a big favour due one of their previous employees not attending to an enquiry I made about the watch a couple of few ago when they weren’t as desirable.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

Wow that’s incredible.Its seriously tempting to cash in if they are selling for that but I don’t know if I could bring myself to do it.I doubt my AD would be happy if they found out-they bumped me to the front of the waiting list late last year as a big favour due one of their previous employees not attending to an enquiry I made about the watch a couple of few ago when they weren’t as desirable.

Unless, of course, you traded it back to them somewhere between MSRP and market price. You get a new, more expensive watch at MSRP; they get to sell a pre-owned at market.

[marselluswallace]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Unless, of course, you traded it back to them somewhere between MSRP and market price. You get a new, more expensive watch at MSRP; they get to sell a pre-owned at market.

As far as I’m aware UK AD’s don’t get involved in selling pre owned pieces in excess of RRP-the one I deal with certainly would not.

[AutoBay]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

As far as I’m aware UK AD’s don’t get involved in selling pre owned pieces in excess of RRP-the one I deal with certainly would not.

I know of several US ADs that are famous for this kind of thing. The simple reality here is this: patek doesn't make enough watches to meet demand and they're scared of increasing supply (and they totally could) for fear that they kill the investments of current owners like us. At the same time, they have brainwashed us into thinking that after we pay them, we still owe some sort of weird homage whereas we cannot profit from our own property, only THEY or their associated dealers can. I'm not endorsing flipping here, I'm merely saying that flippers are not the only responsible party here. Maisons are just as high on their own supply.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

As far as I’m aware UK AD’s don’t get involved in selling pre owned pieces in excess of RRP-the one I deal with certainly would not.

Perhaps not in the windows of their shops; most watch ADs don't have many (any?) pre-owned pieces in the showroom. But what would prohibit an AD from selling a pre-owned piece at market through other channels? I've heard as much when it comes to Rolex, but that was some time ago and perhaps PP is different.

[ELITEVIDEOGAMES]

Sadly the game is rigged even more so than ever.
I was a fool for not buying a Tiffany stamped Aquanaut at MSRP because i wanted to wait for my 5711 a couple years ago. "The List" is a lie.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

Wow that’s incredible.Its seriously tempting to cash in if they are selling for that but I don’t know if I could bring myself to do it.I doubt my AD would be happy if they found out-they bumped me to the front of the waiting list late last year as a big favour due one of their previous employees not attending to an enquiry I made about the watch a couple of few ago when they weren’t as desirable.

Be surprised if WF even offered 70K.

[WatchLurv]

I can say Im finally getting mine after 3.5 years of wait, so to get it within a few months - impossible.

Not sure why people dont check up on market conditions? Everyone thinks it's so easy to walk in and buy a nautilus.

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

I can say Im finally getting mine after 3.5 years of wait, so to get it within a few months - impossible.

Not sure why people dont check up on market conditions? Everyone thinks it's so easy to walk in and buy a nautilus.

Congrats

[marselluswallace]

Originally Posted by AK797

Be surprised if WF even offered 70K.

Even if they offered £60k it’s still over £20k profit for not doing very much.

There will come a time in the future when things return to normal and watches like this are readily available at RRP or under-the only question is when.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

Even if they offered £60k it’s still over £20k profit for not doing very much.

There will come a time in the future when things return to normal and watches like this are readily available at RRP or under-the only question is when.

You didnt take into account that WF may have paid premium too on it.

[marselluswallace]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

You didnt take into account that WF may have paid premium too on it.

Mmm-Not quite sure I understand what you mean there...

In simplistic terms-

I buy the watch for £40k.
WF(or other watch dealer) buy the watch from me for £60k
WF(or other watch dealer) sell the watch for £80k

So £20k profit for me,£20k profit for them. Not a bad return for both parties if you believe(as I do) that the equivalent watch can be purchased at some indeterminable point in the future at RRP.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

Even if they offered £60k it’s still over £20k profit for not doing very much.

There will come a time in the future when things return to normal and watches like this are readily available at RRP or under-the only question is when.

Chronext now asking £105K, so don't take 60K. Just so mad watching these prices move faster than derivatives...

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by AK797

Chronext now asking £105K, so don't take 60K. Just so mad watching these prices move faster than derivatives...

Love it...As much as people try to point out tulips and other bubbles... bubbles can last a lot longer than all of us can fathom.

prices had only inflected a little while ago... and now it’s duration of the trade...trend is ur friend until the next inflection... sit tight

I love the fact we have a grey market for price discovery....


I said this before..patek is leaving too much money on the table... they should raise prices until they find the line.. I suspect it’s circular at this point. Raise prices create more demand.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

I said this before..patek is leaving too much money on the table... they should raise prices until they find the line.. I suspect it’s circular at this point. Raise prices create more demand.

That, in my opinion, would be very shortsighted. If PP raises prices on sport models, one of two things will eventually happen:

1. Market stabilizes and now PP has to do a massive price cut, essentially admitting that its watches aren't worth their current retail prices.

2. Market stabilizes but PP leaves prices as-is (to avoid #1 above) and dealers start massively discounting. But people have short memories, so now a Nautilus is "just another watch you get for 30-40% off list" instead of "the $30k watch it always was and should have been."

The law of unintended consequences further leaves us with a dress watch problem:

It's impossible to raise prices on the sport models to anywhere near market without also raising them on the dress watches. Difficult to justify a 5167A and 5227J, both outfitted with a 324 and fitted with straps, carrying the same retail price when one is cased in steel, the other in gold.

Therefore, prices on dress watches must also increase significantly, even though the market already has difficulty supporting the current MSRP. So now a PP dress watch is seen as a "discount" item.

Now, what PP could do is simply raise the dealers' invoice on certain models. Customers would never know, and dealers will still take each and every one offered given how short their hold period is. PP would have to be careful, since things will eventually come full circle and angering the dealers during good times could come back to bite them in bad.

[Fat_ninja]

Originally Posted by dannyp

That, in my opinion, would be very shortsighted. If PP raises prices on sport models, one of two things will eventually happen:

1. Market stabilizes and now PP has to do a massive price cut, essentially admitting that its watches aren't worth their current retail prices.

2. Market stabilizes but PP leaves prices as-is (to avoid #1 above) and dealers start massively discounting. But people have short memories, so now a Nautilus is "just another watch you get for 30-40% off list" instead of "the $30k watch it always was and should have been."

The law of unintended consequences further leaves us with a dress watch problem:

It's impossible to raise prices on the sport models to anywhere near market without also raising them on the dress watches. Difficult to justify a 5167A and 5227J, both outfitted with a 324 and fitted with straps, carrying the same retail price when one is cased in steel, the other in gold.

Therefore, prices on dress watches must also increase significantly, even though the market already has difficulty supporting the current MSRP. So now a PP dress watch is seen as a "discount" item.

Now, what PP could do is simply raise the dealers' invoice on certain models. Customers would never know, and dealers will still take each and every one offered given how short their hold period is. PP would have to be careful, since things will eventually come full circle and angering the dealers during good times could come back to bite them in bad.

Appreciate the thoughtful response

But an alternative scenario is prices collapsing is... that irrespective of whether PP raises prices, prices will come down or not when the mkt normalizes.

I’ve seen both your scenarios play out in real life... the difference I have found is whether there was truly any alternative or not.

Also Richard Mille... the entire line is effectively comparable to the nautilus hype

As for dress watches going up in price... The 2ndary market is telling you that they are over priced...ideally one should reverse the prices.



But I hear the logic... just a thought, I don’t really have strong opinions. from me... 90% of the time I joke

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Appreciate the thoughtful response

But an alternative scenario is prices collapsing is... that irrespective of whether PP raises prices, prices will come down or not when the mkt normalizes.

I’ve seen both your scenarios play out in real life... the difference I have found is whether there was truly any alternative or not.

Also Richard Mille... the entire line is effectively comparable to the nautilus hype

As for dress watches going up in price... The 2ndary market is telling you that they are over priced...ideally one should reverse the prices.



But I hear the logic... just a thought, I don’t really have strong opinions. from me... 90% of the time I joke

The reason I think PP needs to keep prices as-is is face-saving. When the market collapses PP can say: “See, it was always a $30k watch.”

As to the dress watches, the same image issue exists. If PP lowers prices on them to market, is the discrepancy that will exist between sport and dress. PP will be publicly acknowledging that its dress watches are inherently less desirable, and simply being a Patek isn't enough.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by dannyp

The reason I think PP needs to keep prices as-is is face-saving. When the market collapses PP can say: “See, it was always a $30k watch.”

As to the dress watches, the same image issue exists. If PP lowers prices on them to market, is the discrepancy that will exist between sport and dress. PP will be publicly acknowledging that its dress watches are inherently less desirable, and simply being a Patek isn't enough.

I'm thinking we are past the point where a price rise will have much effect on the market and even if things did somehow really collapse, and prices moved back towards retail I think no one would blame PP for a price rise in such a hyped and distorted from retail resale market. Same with Rolex, everyone gets a pass in these crazy times. Changing supply is a much bigger task and one no one seems willing to do and that's fair enough in a crazy market.

[marselluswallace]

Originally Posted by AK797

Chronext now asking £105K, so don't take 60K. Just so mad watching these prices move faster than derivatives...

That’s crazy-if that genuinely sells then it’s seriously tempting to cash in.

[Codik]

Sounds like we are in the “new normal” phase of the bubble.

[justdate]

Originally Posted by marselluswallace

That’s crazy-if that genuinely sells then it’s seriously tempting to cash in.

The problem is the margin these secondary dealers take is absolutely huge, so a list price of £100k may still not mean a very good bid. It’s a great watch but looks far too small on me, the rose gold blends into the pink hue of my skin haha.

[csx7034]

Even Rosie Huntington-Whiteley knows how to wear one well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bypz8Ayn_9L/

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by csx7034

Even Rosie Huntington-Whiteley knows how to wear one well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bypz8Ayn_9L/

Where is the watch

[AK797]

Originally Posted by csx7034

Even Rosie Huntington-Whiteley knows how to wear one well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bypz8Ayn_9L/