Better than Patek?

[subtona]

Not sure why there remains confidence in Patek resale?

Plentiful Examples of prices can readily be found for serious current pieces with heavy discounts on the Preowned market
90k to 50 k.

50k to 35k

Etc.

Consider those are seller prices, if an owner seeks a trade in value it could typically be 20% less than the already steep discounts.

How is this breeding confidence from forum members regarding Patek resale?????

the nautilus is not the typical owner experience.

Older sought after vintage models are not the experience of current models.

Either Stop the insanity or acknowledge our bar for what is good performance has been seriously bent.

Patek may perform better than the conglomerate brands on resale but it is still just shy of abysmal.


Not saying I don’t appreciate and hold Patek watches in high regard for many reasons, I am just saying that imho we need a reality check.




PS keep in mind that the #s above are representative of the current market not the potential collapsing market in our future.

Can we reasonably expect 90k msrp to go below the current 50k preowned number? How low? 40k...30k...25k? I don’t know but if the seller is motivated and the market becomes so soft, who knows?

Of course it could be looked at as a buying opportunity but we can expect that money will remain with the historically strong performers.

[yessir69]

⬆️⬆️⬆️ Agree with this. ⬆️⬆️⬆️



For me, Lange is the new Patek.

[AAP8]

Originally Posted by subtona

Not sure why there remains confidence in Patek resale?

Plentiful Examples of prices can readily be found for serious current pieces with heavy discounts on the Preowned market
90k to 50 k.

50k to 35k

Etc.

Consider those are seller prices, if an owner seeks a trade in value it could typically be 20% less than the already steep discounts.

How is this breeding confidence from forum members regarding Patek resale?????

the nautilus is not the typical owner experience.

Older vintage models are not the experience of current models.

Either Stop the insanity or acknowledge our bar for what is good performance has been seriously bent.

Patek may perform better than the conglomerate brands on resale but it is still just shy abysmal.


Not saying I don’t appreciate and hold Patek watches in high regard for many reasons, I am just saying that imho we need a reality check.

This is why I can never find myself wanting to pay over retail - loosing money is a given for many watches - but loosing after paying a premium is a double whammy.

[blindpilot]

Ball watches are clearly superior. 😁

Kidding aside- ALS, VC and Journe are contenders for me.

[Token74]

I am considering adding a non-sports watch to my collection....and to some extent, thats what’s behind my original question.

For me, I wouldn’t look anywhere else other than Patek, AP, and Rolex.

I’m naturally drawn to Patek, but if it’s not a sports watch, and it doesn’t have interesting complications then they seem overpriced compared to others.

I have also looked at the Cellini range, as for a PM Rolex these seem very good value, but i just can’t get excited about them.

Thanks to the responses on this thread I’ve spent a lot of time looking at VC and Lange, as well as some brands I’ve never heard of, which has been interesting.

I’m pretty sold on the VC Patrimony and that would give me the holy trinity which would be cool, and the blue would look great with a blue suit (my suit of choice).

But...I have also been looking a lot at Parmigiani at the Parmigiani Toric PFC423-1600201-HA1241 for three reasons, (1) I love the design, (2) its ‘different’ and not a brand that a lot of people know, and (3) my local Rolex AD has started stocking them and I like to support the AD if I can.

This thread has been really useful, thank you.




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[Sam3641]

Originally Posted by Token74

I am considering adding a non-sports watch to my collection....and to some extent, thats what’s behind my original question.

For me, I wouldn’t look anywhere else other than Patek, AP, and Rolex.

I’m naturally drawn to Patek, but if it’s not a sports watch, and it doesn’t have interesting complications then they seem overpriced compared to others.

I have also looked at the Cellini range, as for a PM Rolex these seem very good value, but i just can’t get excited about them.

Thanks to the responses on this thread I’ve spent a lot of time looking at VC and Lange, as well as some brands I’ve never heard of, which has been interesting.

I’m pretty sold on the VC Patrimony and that would give me the holy trinity which would be cool, and the blue would look great with a blue suit (my suit of choice).

But...I have also been looking a lot at Parmigiani at the Parmigiani Toric PFC423-1600201-HA1241 for three reasons, (1) I love the design, (2) its ‘different’ and not a brand that a lot of people know, and (3) my local Rolex AD has started stocking them and I like to support the AD if I can.

This thread has been really useful, thank you.




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I’ve been looking at Parmigiani too! Amazing watches and without the marketing fluff surrounding the likes of PP and Rolex.
IMHO Apart from Patek-Philippe being able to claim kudos on their long history, Parmigiani is a far superior watch!



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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Sam3641

Parmigiani is a far superior watch!

They're so low-key I kind of forgot about how awesome their watches are! Thanks for posting, there are really great brand.

[sirish19]

Originally Posted by Token74

I am considering adding a non-sports watch to my collection....and to some extent, thats what’s behind my original question.

For me, I wouldn’t look anywhere else other than Patek, AP, and Rolex.

I’m naturally drawn to Patek, but if it’s not a sports watch, and it doesn’t have interesting complications then they seem overpriced compared to others.

I have also looked at the Cellini range, as for a PM Rolex these seem very good value, but i just can’t get excited about them.

Thanks to the responses on this thread I’ve spent a lot of time looking at VC and Lange, as well as some brands I’ve never heard of, which has been interesting.

I’m pretty sold on the VC Patrimony and that would give me the holy trinity which would be cool, and the blue would look great with a blue suit (my suit of choice).

But...I have also been looking a lot at Parmigiani at the Parmigiani Toric PFC423-1600201-HA1241 for three reasons, (1) I love the design, (2) its ‘different’ and not a brand that a lot of people know, and (3) my local Rolex AD has started stocking them and I like to support the AD if I can.

This thread has been really useful, thank you.




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I would put VC, AP and Lange at the same level as PP. VC and Lange both do dress watches very well while I think AP does sports watches very well. The reason PP is so highly regarded is because the do everything very well from high-end complications, PM dress watches to SS sports.

But if you are looking for a dress watch, definitely go VC and get the holy trinity.

I love my VC Patrimony as I find it simple, elegant yet understated. Modern-sized yet ultra-thin. It was actually the first of the Holy Trinity that I bought and added the PP and AP later. I don’t worry about resale as I cannot imagine I will ever sell it.




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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by GB-man

In terms of the whole package including brand I put nobody above Patek.

In terms of the watches without bias there are many, as noted GF for sure.

I’d say Journe, ALS, and a handful of other small independents. Honestly VC still belongs at the table as far as I’m concerned. Their high end stuff is really impressive.

agree. Whole Package its Patek at this level. The same as at the Rolex level there is no one who can compete with them as a whole package either.

There are better brands in certain areas but all around, i dont think so

[codecow]

VC Patrimony in platinum is a great watch. I also like the 1921 from them but it’s way more gauche.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by codecow

VC Patrimony in platinum is a great watch. I also like the 1921 from them but it’s way more gauche.

Is that a fancy word for neck-breaking?

[codecow]

Originally Posted by AK797

Is that a fancy word for neck-breaking?

Kind of, yeah. I mean I'd get one but I think they're way overpriced.

[SpunkyQ8]

IMO FPJ and ALS.

[patriot885]

Roughly, there are only 3 historical watch makers who are still independent those are Patek Philippe, Audemar Piguet and Rolex.
Patek is second to none.

As to all the small manufactures such as mentioned, they are great but you can't compare a few years old boutique watchmaker to a 100+ years old independent company.
From the car world, Pagani are amazing cars but won't get close to Ferrari or Porsche.. try in 40 years from now..

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

fpj and roger smith for sure.

+1

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by patriot885

Roughly, there are only 3 historical watch makers who are still independent those are Patek Philippe, Audemar Piguet and Rolex.
Patek is second to none.

As to all the small manufactures such as mentioned, they are great but you can't compare a few years old boutique watchmaker to a 100+ years old independent company.
From the car world, Pagani are amazing cars but won't get close to Ferrari or Porsche.. try in 40 years from now..

Rose tinted nonsense... what has independence and history got to do with producing a superb product?
Ford make good cars, Toyota makes equally good cars, Lexus make much better cars — of those 3, who’s been around the longest?

Why do you propose Patek, etc are incomparable with FPJ or Lange & Sohne, for example?
Presumably you’ve never heard of George Daniels or Philippe Dufour, or Christian Klings, let alone Bovet, DeBethune or MB&F?

[myporsche]

Curious to ask, especially from owners, where you guys think H. Moser ranks among these big names?

[AK797]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Curious to ask, especially from owners, where you guys think H. Moser ranks among these big names?

I do like them and their aesthetic, I put them on a similar level to JLC and Breguet, they would all be competing for my money in this dress space.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Curious to ask, especially from owners, where you guys think H. Moser ranks among these big names?

Ranking brands is a (bit of a) fool’s errand – you only end up arguing with yourself over why certain pieces you fancy should be dismissed.
If you like the look of something and the price right, then get it and just enjoy wearing it.
In light of Neil’s assessment, I’d argue that Moser is well past JLC MC (Lab & Duometre is quite different) and so different from Breguet as neither would be involved in an either or scenario.

[rolexpatek363]

On the subject of Moser/PP, I assume we've all seen this? Gave me a laugh, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbHR5Lso-HU

[dwatcher]

Patek leads the industry on resale. Brands like Urban Jurgensen are every bit as good if not better. The dials, case and movement finish, technology and feel of the UJ is much nicer in my opinion than Patek. Similar price point watches.

[myporsche]

Thanks guys

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

On the subject of Moser/PP, I assume we've all seen this? Gave me a laugh, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbHR5Lso-HU

Originally Posted by PJ S

Ranking brands is a (bit of a) fool’s errand – you only end up arguing with yourself over why certain pieces you fancy should be dismissed.
If you like the look of something and the price right, then get it and just enjoy wearing it.
In light of Neil’s assessment, I’d argue that Moser is well past JLC MC (Lab & Duometre is quite different) and so different from Breguet as neither would be involved in an either or scenario.

Originally Posted by AK797

I do like them and their aesthetic, I put them on a similar level to JLC and Breguet, they would all be competing for my money in this dress space.