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Mystro · 14 July 2010, 12:11 PM

Rolex needs to focus more on their quality control. Like regulating their movements to their true capabilities. All movements should be able to achieve half COSC specs.

jatco · 15 July 2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystro

Rolex needs to focus more on their quality control. Like regulating their movements to their true capabilities. All movements should be able to achieve half COSC specs.

Are you implying that Rolex is not meeting those specs?
If not Rolex, who is..?

rimakis · 15 July 2010, 12:20 PM

Why do some think Rolex is the be all end all of watches? I mean they are good, but...

Regards,
George

jatco · 15 July 2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimakis

Why do some think Rolex is the be all end all of watches? I mean they are good, but...

Regards,
George

But what...?!?!?

nowzen · 15 July 2010, 01:31 PM

How about a tiny screw on the case where the consumer can make a minor (-/+ 5 sec) regulation without paying RSC $1000?

I know, I'm being ridiculous.

Boadicea · 15 July 2010, 07:49 PM

I thought they did make improvements every few years (changes in materials, springs, etc) but not enough of a change to warrant a new number (IE: No design changes). Anyone have any info on this? Does a 20 year old 3135 differ in ANY way at all to the current model?

kel · 15 July 2010, 09:02 PM

Interesting thread this..... But I wonder...... Still going strong after many years with prehaps only minor improvements and tweaks here and there....

It works, its reliable, its robust........... So why????

If it ain't broke.... It don't need fixing.....

padi56 · 15 July 2010, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boadicea

I thought they did make improvements every few years (changes in materials, springs, etc) but not enough of a change to warrant a new number (IE: No design changes). Anyone have any info on this? Does a 20 year old 3135 differ in ANY way at all to the current model?

Exactly the same except for in some models now have the new in-house escapement parts.But as soon as Rolex becomes fully self sufficient in escapement parts all the complete line up will be 100% in-house built except for the mainsprings they are still out sourced.Rolex make very fine movements all of the mens line up except the chronographs are just clones of the Cal 3135 with or without added complications.But there are many fine movements today many not changed for many decades like the ETA 2892-A2, ETA 2824/2T chronometer grade, Valjoux 7750,Unitas 6497/8,Omega 2500, JLC 889/2 , JLC 960, Longines 990 (Lemania 8815), PP 215, PP 240,and the Grand Seiko 430 is one of finest movements ever made IMHO.Others like the Zenith 400,Zenith 670, GP 3100 all excellent movements in there own right.

Rolexsd4000 · 15 July 2010, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Hi guys,

The ever popular calibre 3135 has been going strong since 1989, and 21 years hence, is still being used in even their very latest Ceramic Subs as well as the DSSD.

Rolex must have done something right the very first time they came up with this movement...............which makes you wonder what else they can do to improve on it?

JJ

JJ

Just came back from a wonderful vacation in Cancun. Its always a breath of fresh air to see your postings. Anyhow I don't think Rolex can do anymore with the 3135 movement. But I am NO expert. Maybe the Guys and Gals in Rolex R&D are finding new upgrades for the World.

Rikki · 16 July 2010, 09:35 AM

I think if they change over to ball bearings for the Occillating weight like they have on the 4130 Daytona that would be an improvement. Rik

JJ Irani · 16 July 2010, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikki

I think if they change over to ball bearings for the Occillating weight like they have on the 4130 Daytona that would be an improvement. Rik

Thanks for your professional input, Rik............excellent suggestion. Wish they would have incorporated that into the new Ceramic Subs.

JJ

George Ab · 16 July 2010, 04:33 PM

If you review this article on the 3135 http://www.chronometrie.com/rolex3135/rolex3135.html. The article points out some weakness in the movement that could be alleviated through design change. Quoting below.

“As for the weaknesses of the 3135? In my honest opinion there are only two glaring weaknesses. The first is that the oscillating weight pivots on a steel post that is riveted to it and held in place by two jewels. The small circumference of said post, coupled with Rolex’s simple and efficient reversing wheels and gearing ratios, greatly improves the winding efficiency of the automatic unit. This is probably the most efficient automatic winding system available today. But unfortunately its tiny diameter doesn’t give enough support to the weight to stop it from hitting against the movement plates every time the watch is subjected to even light perpendicular blows, let alone strong ones. I think that an upgrade to an oscillating weight pivoting on ball bearing races, like they’ve done in their new chronograph movement caliber 4130, is long overdue in order to eliminate this problem. It would be even better if they used lubrication free zirconium oxide ball bearings like JLC, PP and others that are doing so today, not only for their strength, but also for their efficiency over steel ones.

The other weakness is something that may or may not manifest itself as readily, depending on the circumstances and how often the watch is serviced. This potential problem is easily understood by any watchmaker who has serviced a lot of these movements. The problem is that the 2 setting wheels under the dial, and the two small and thin posts that they pivot on, can be easily damaged if the lubrication runs dry. If the grease on the canon pinion dries up due to age or moisture in the watch case, the teeth on these small thin wheels will break off. The more severe problem is if the lubrication on the posts runs dry, then the first post will be worn away in no time at all, as shown in the photo above. This is less of a problem on the second post as it is a steel pin that is not riveted into the main plate. So it can be easily replaced if it is worn or damaged. Unfortunately the first post is part of the main plate, and is made of brass just like it. Therefore if this post gets damaged like that, the only way to repair it is by replacing the entire main plate. An expensive proposition at best. It’s worth noting that this was not a problem on Rolex’s older caliber 3035 because the diameter of the post was quite a bit thicker, as was the set wheel itself. Please note that this shouldn’t be a problem for those who take care of their watches and have them serviced at regular intervals – every four to five years as recommended by most factories today. I am 100% in agreement with this recommended service interval.

Whether Rolex is interested in making any more radical upgrades to this movement is anybody’s guess, but my feeling is that by now they probably have a replacement waiting in the wings for it. With the economy being in the shambles that it’s in right now, the timing might not be right just yet. Only time will tell. But hey, if anybody gets an email from Bruno Meir about their new movement be a sport and tell your friends on Time Zone about it.”

Another change that should be made, not so much to the 3135, but protecting the 3135 from electromagnetic fields through a simple faraday shield. Easy fix, and one that is much needed into today’s world of self check out counters that expose our watches to strong magnetic fields. It is not just engineers working in power plants that require protection from electro magnetic fields magnetizing our movement, it is part of our modern world and the watch industry should catch up.

I’ll finish saying that if it wasn’t for LVMH (parent company to Zenith) giving notice to Rolex that they would stop filling contracts for Zenith movements commencing in 2000, Rolex would of probably never given us the wonderful 4130 chronograph movement. So it took a "kick in the butt" for Rolex to step out of their horological laziness. My point is although the 3135 is a wonderful robust and accurate movement, it can and should be thoughtfully improved upon.

Rikki · 19 July 2010, 11:06 AM

Actually I have replaced the post for the setting wheel it's appro. 24 thousandths by 26 thousandths. Not an easy job ,but doable have done about a half dozen to date. I replace with stainless steel post, but you are correct it is a problematic area. Rik

steubi1 · 22 July 2010, 06:52 AM

Nothing!

They can do nothing to improve this movement, it is perfect!

It is all about mechanics and dimensions: Build a movement large enough in diameter and with sufficient height, no problems!

The really tricky thing in mechanical watch making are the small movements with dimensions reduced to the max.

The Rolex movement has never had the ambition to beat the world record in lowest height or diameter. Result: Precision and long life.

Tom

David Woo · 12 August 2010, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balboa

Others are already using silicon hairsprings in limited production. Patek Philippe, Breguet and I believe Cartier among some others are using silicon.

Advantages are silicon is very resistant to magnetism, temperature change and shock.

Some companies like Damasko are pioneering with innovations for watch movements:
http://damasko.de/eng/index.html
DW

timuS · 24 August 2010, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Agree JJ, althought the watchmaker at my AD told me that Rolex just patented... something or other... about a Silicone spring(?)

Honestly, it went way over my head and I could be off base, but he said it was a tremendous breakthrough in the industry and Rolex would start incorporating it in to all their movements.

Larry? Anyone? Know anything about this supposed revolutionary patent?

Hi Paul,

You may be right...Rolex could be planning something on those lines...
They filed for a patent this year (2010)!

Check out my post on this here:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=140475

Best Regards,

Sumit

16 July 2010, 04:33 PM	#42
George Ab "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Real Name: George Location: Seattle Watch: One of Them Posts: 6,924	If you review this article on the 3135 http://www.chronometrie.com/rolex3135/rolex3135.html. The article points out some weakness in the movement that could be alleviated through design change. Quoting below. “As for the weaknesses of the 3135? In my honest opinion there are only two glaring weaknesses. The first is that the oscillating weight pivots on a steel post that is riveted to it and held in place by two jewels. The small circumference of said post, coupled with Rolex’s simple and efficient reversing wheels and gearing ratios, greatly improves the winding efficiency of the automatic unit. This is probably the most efficient automatic winding system available today. But unfortunately its tiny diameter doesn’t give enough support to the weight to stop it from hitting against the movement plates every time the watch is subjected to even light perpendicular blows, let alone strong ones. I think that an upgrade to an oscillating weight pivoting on ball bearing races, like they’ve done in their new chronograph movement caliber 4130, is long overdue in order to eliminate this problem. It would be even better if they used lubrication free zirconium oxide ball bearings like JLC, PP and others that are doing so today, not only for their strength, but also for their efficiency over steel ones. The other weakness is something that may or may not manifest itself as readily, depending on the circumstances and how often the watch is serviced. This potential problem is easily understood by any watchmaker who has serviced a lot of these movements. The problem is that the 2 setting wheels under the dial, and the two small and thin posts that they pivot on, can be easily damaged if the lubrication runs dry. If the grease on the canon pinion dries up due to age or moisture in the watch case, the teeth on these small thin wheels will break off. The more severe problem is if the lubrication on the posts runs dry, then the first post will be worn away in no time at all, as shown in the photo above. This is less of a problem on the second post as it is a steel pin that is not riveted into the main plate. So it can be easily replaced if it is worn or damaged. Unfortunately the first post is part of the main plate, and is made of brass just like it. Therefore if this post gets damaged like that, the only way to repair it is by replacing the entire main plate. An expensive proposition at best. It’s worth noting that this was not a problem on Rolex’s older caliber 3035 because the diameter of the post was quite a bit thicker, as was the set wheel itself. Please note that this shouldn’t be a problem for those who take care of their watches and have them serviced at regular intervals – every four to five years as recommended by most factories today. I am 100% in agreement with this recommended service interval. Whether Rolex is interested in making any more radical upgrades to this movement is anybody’s guess, but my feeling is that by now they probably have a replacement waiting in the wings for it. With the economy being in the shambles that it’s in right now, the timing might not be right just yet. Only time will tell. But hey, if anybody gets an email from Bruno Meir about their new movement be a sport and tell your friends on Time Zone about it.” Another change that should be made, not so much to the 3135, but protecting the 3135 from electromagnetic fields through a simple faraday shield. Easy fix, and one that is much needed into today’s world of self check out counters that expose our watches to strong magnetic fields. It is not just engineers working in power plants that require protection from electro magnetic fields magnetizing our movement, it is part of our modern world and the watch industry should catch up. I’ll finish saying that if it wasn’t for LVMH (parent company to Zenith) giving notice to Rolex that they would stop filling contracts for Zenith movements commencing in 2000, Rolex would of probably never given us the wonderful 4130 chronograph movement. So it took a "kick in the butt" for Rolex to step out of their horological laziness. My point is although the 3135 is a wonderful robust and accurate movement, it can and should be thoughtfully improved upon. __________________

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14 July 2010, 12:11 PM	#31
Mystro 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: The Mystro ;) Location: Central Pa. Posts: 14,693	Rolex needs to focus more on their quality control. Like regulating their movements to their true capabilities. All movements should be able to achieve half COSC specs.

15 July 2010, 12:20 PM	#33
rimakis Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 18	Why do some think Rolex is the be all end all of watches? I mean they are good, but... Regards, George

15 July 2010, 01:31 PM	#35
nowzen "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 741	How about a tiny screw on the case where the consumer can make a minor (-/+ 5 sec) regulation without paying RSC $1000? I know, I'm being ridiculous.

15 July 2010, 07:49 PM	#36
Boadicea Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Real Name: Daniel Location: UK Posts: 520	I thought they did make improvements every few years (changes in materials, springs, etc) but not enough of a change to warrant a new number (IE: No design changes). Anyone have any info on this? Does a 20 year old 3135 differ in ANY way at all to the current model?

15 July 2010, 09:02 PM	#37
kel Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Lincolnshire Posts: 90	Interesting thread this..... But I wonder...... Still going strong after many years with prehaps only minor improvements and tweaks here and there.... It works, its reliable, its robust........... So why???? If it ain't broke.... It don't need fixing.....

16 July 2010, 09:35 AM	#40
Rikki TechXpert Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: Rik Dietel Location: Seminole Fla Watch: 5512 s/s Sub Posts: 1,818	I think if they change over to ball bearings for the Occillating weight like they have on the 4130 Daytona that would be an improvement. Rik

19 July 2010, 11:06 AM	#43
Rikki TechXpert Join Date: Jun 2009 Real Name: Rik Dietel Location: Seminole Fla Watch: 5512 s/s Sub Posts: 1,818	Actually I have replaced the post for the setting wheel it's appro. 24 thousandths by 26 thousandths. Not an easy job ,but doable have done about a half dozen to date. I replace with stainless steel post, but you are correct it is a problematic area. Rik

22 July 2010, 06:52 AM	#44
steubi1 "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Real Name: Tom Location: Switzerland Watch: too many Posts: 1,149	Nothing! They can do nothing to improve this movement, it is perfect! It is all about mechanics and dimensions: Build a movement large enough in diameter and with sufficient height, no problems! The really tricky thing in mechanical watch making are the small movements with dimensions reduced to the max. The Rolex movement has never had the ambition to beat the world record in lowest height or diameter. Result: Precision and long life. Tom

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