Brand perception, bias and snobbery

[minute_man]

This has the potential of becoming a polarizing thread but since this is a watch forum I'd like to share my experience and observations hoping for some civil interaction.

I recently acquired a Grand Seiko 44mm GMT. Always loved the design and features, never had tried one. Bought sight unseen and ended up loving it. In all honesty, it is the only watch I've evet had that gets noticed and complimented almost on daily basis. I am mostly not the one to strike a conversation so I casually thank or nod yet there's always the curious one asking what brand it is.

I always respond that's a Seiko and there's where it gets awkward. Those who know me well are aware of my watch fetish so naturally want to know more.

My employer was the first one to notice and was shocked that a Seiko can be of "decent quality" lol.

Had a couple more chaps asking to handle the watch which I was happy to oblige. Which in turn raised the question about the "Grand" prefix.
After some explaining on my part, one just sighed, (almost in relief of some sort?) while handing it back but the other one tossed it across the table scoffing and ranting how Seiko is of no value.
The same person bashed on Datejusts because "they look like Seikos" while wearing knock-offs himself. As for myself, I wouldn't toss one's Q&Q across the table.

Again, not seeking reassurance here, I couldn't care less how someone feels about a watch I'm wearing. Just sharing my experience which sadly serves to confirm how much the name on a dial matters when it comes to sentiment and bias and how the latter, combined with snobbery drive demand for certain brands while dictating the baggage for others to carry.

[East Bay Rider]

Most people don't know anything and just repeat brand names they've heard of our seen ads for. Others knock the well known brands they've heard of as junk or not worth their reputation. I've run into the anti-Rolex crowd. "Rolex aren't that great. They're not even accurate blah blah blah". Then I get to look at their confused face when I tell them Rolex standards are tighter than COSC, followed by an explanation of what the COSC standards are because the moron shouting accuracy has never heard of the COSC requirements.
So yeah, most people don't know much but they have a lot of opinions.

[Rico_Brasole]

OP, your personal experience makes me want to go buy a GS.

I love the under the radar those who know…know brands


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[White Collar Boy]

Hang on, he tossed your watch across the table!? That just made me shudder.

Watches are splendid, but so is emotional intelligence. Hope your watch is unscathed and you can cut a wider berth of the sociopath in the room.

Got a photo of the GMT?

[Locust]

This persons character is awful. Plain and simple. I would get the scuff fixed and give him the bill

[Jackie Daytona]

Originally Posted by East Bay Rider

So yeah, most people don't know much but they have a lot of opinions.

The rest of it is indeed true,, but I feel like this pretty well sums it up.

[mongrelnomoad]

It doesn’t matter. Anyone who knows Seiko history and their output knows there’s a good argument for them being GOAT. Any manufacturer that makes its own $5 quartz and $200k platinum grand sonnerie is to be treated with awe, not disdain.

[fullofboats]

I tell ppl my Credor is a seiko. Sometimes it’s better as to not draw attention. Seiko overall, across all three brands, offer the best value for quality, horological whatever of any brand. Unfortunately (or fortunately) their marketing is so bad that the appreciation potential is close to nil

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by White Collar Boy

Hang on, he tossed your watch across the table!? That just made me shudder.

Watches are splendid, but so is emotional intelligence. Hope your watch is unscathed and you can cut a wider berth of the sociopath in the room.

Got a photo of the GMT?

Yeah, he did. I handed it, he tossed it Never saw that coming. Although I must admit, emotional (or otherwise) intelligence had never been among the qualities said person is known for.

The watch is fine, by the way.

Originally Posted by Locust

This persons character is awful. Plain and simple. I would get the scuff fixed and give him the bill

Couldn't agree more. And he is one of those perpetuating the negative Rolex stereotype, too. If only he wore (a real) one though
Now that you mention, he scoffed; the watch was unscathed, but I'd be tempted to send it to Japan for a spa and have him foot the bill.

Originally Posted by Rico_Brasole

OP, your personal experience makes me want to go buy a GS.

I love the under the radar those who know…know brands


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Makes me want to buy yet another one. Thinking of the SBGJ239. Spring Drive + Hi Beat duo I have two bespoke leather straps on order from Chile and only one watch atm...

[Old Expat Beast]

There's no reasoning with idiots

[Watch-Geek]

It also depending where you live.
Where I'm from (Croatia) a Seiko 5 was THE watch to buy as they had a reputation of lasting a lifetime.

When I was growing up, all the "adults" wore a Seiko 5, and it was also a standard gift a young man gets for his "confirmation" (I don't know if that's the term in english, the last thing you get in a catholic church).

Even today, older people have respect for Seiko when they see you wearing one.

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[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Watch-Geek

It also depending where you live.
Where I'm from (Croatia) a Seiko 5 was THE watch to buy as they had a reputation of lasting a lifetime.

When I was growing up, all the "adults" wore a Seiko 5, and it was also a standard gift a young man gets for his "confirmation" (I don't know if that's the term in english, the last thing you get in a catholic church).

Even today, older people have respect for Seiko when they see you wearing one.

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I've seen "Mr Rolex" James Dowling write that it was the Seiko 5 line that first got the Swiss watch industry on the run in the 1960s, some years before the quartz 'crisis'. Suddenly anyone could own a Day/Date with a of range cool designs and water resistant case.

[White Collar Boy]

Originally Posted by minute_man

The watch is fine, by the way.

Phew! Glad to read that. Great looking watch Basil.

[1William]

People can only respond from their knowledge and perspective. Many, myself included at one time, are on the front end of knowledge and many more have no interpersonal skills to discuss what they do not understand. I will always be a Rolex fan and it is where I started and I will always probably have a few in the collection but Seiko is what I wear most of the time now. The saying, "Those that know, know", is perfect for the brand. OP, set those comments aside and smile to yourself, because you do know.

[Funkeruski]

Originally Posted by minute_man

Yeah, he did. I handed it, he tossed it Never saw that coming.

The watch is fine, by the way.

Somebody does that to my watch and it's throw down time.

[minute_man]

I will agree there's no reasoning with the unreasonable. Also where I come from, the Seiko 5 had always been the watch to own and I had been gifted quite a few by my grandfather on various occasions.
Seiko was somewhat of a standard while Rolex, though attainable, was something aspirational, given the frugal family attitude or even something deliberately avoided later own due to the well known connotations.
What I've progressively come to realize in this life however, is that clothes don't make the man. And this is liberating.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

There's no reasoning with idiots

Or accounting for good taste

[Subshark1861]

I'm going to get a GS. But Snowflake or Skyflake? That is the question.

[RW16610]

Originally Posted by Rico_Brasole

OP, your personal experience makes me want to go buy a GS.

I love the under the radar those who know…know brands


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I'm with you on this, as there are times and instances where pieces like this in a collection are a breath of fresh air.

Sometimes I feel the less the general public knows, the better.

[Henry14th]

Originally Posted by Subshark1861

I'm going to get a GS. But Snowflake or Skyflake? That is the question.

White birch with the hi-best movement over either of the snow or sky flakes IMO


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[Subshark1861]

Been to the AD and it's Snowflake for me.

Need to decide on new or used now.

[michaelmclees]

Grand Seiko should not be considered Seiko, the same way Bugatti should not be considered Volkswagen.

When you give people the keys to your Veyron, don't tell them it's a Golf unless you want them to handle it as they would handle a Golf.

Notice I said the way THEY would handle a Golf. How careful you are with your stuff is irrelevant to the guy who barely cares about nice watches and cares not at all for non-nice watches.

I've only let one stranger handle my GS - a Rolex dealer who was wowed by it from a distance and wanted to see it up close.

[minute_man]

Originally Posted by michaelmclees

Grand Seiko should not be considered Seiko, the same way Bugatti should not be considered Volkswagen.

When you give people the keys to your Veyron, don't tell them it's a Golf unless you want them to handle it as they would handle a Golf.

Notice I said the way THEY would handle a Golf. How careful you are with your stuff is irrelevant to the guy who barely cares about nice watches and cares not at all for non-nice watches.

I've only let one stranger handle my GS - a Rolex dealer who was wowed by it from a distance and wanted to see it up close.

There's always the duty of care while handling other people's property, no matter the value. As I said, I wouldn't toss a plastic Q&Q across a table...It's a matter of character and upbringing.

[njlam]

I am new to watch collecting and I want to add a Grand Seiko to my collection.

My question is, if I buy one what best represents the brand, what are the attributes that define GS?

Are the known for the steel or titanium cases?

While Seiko is known for pioneering the quartz movement, is the quartz, spring drive or mechanical the one to get?

Looking at their website, they have so many models it is hard to decide. I want to narrow some of the characteristics to what GS is best known for to narrow the field. Thanks in advance.

[michaelmclees]

Originally Posted by njlam

I am new to watch collecting and I want to add a Grand Seiko to my collection.

My question is, if I buy one what best represents the brand, what are the attributes that define GS?

Are the known for the steel or titanium cases?

While Seiko is known for pioneering the quartz movement, is the quartz, spring drive or mechanical the one to get?

Looking at their website, they have so many models it is hard to decide. I want to narrow some of the characteristics to what GS is best known for to narrow the field. Thanks in advance.

Grand Seiko, as a brand, is mostly about the aesthetics of the case with trademark particular angles and polishing, and the dial. That's why the Snowflake is so popular, among other things.

Look at the case alone and everyone in the know will immediately identify it as a GS.

[njlam]

Thanks. That is the type of info I am looking for.

What about the movement? It seems like the Spring Drive is what they are known for? Self wind or automatic?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by njlam

Thanks. That is the type of info I am looking for.

What about the movement? It seems like the Spring Drive is what they are known for? Self wind or automatic?

I have a couple of 9F quartz GS and my next one would probably be the same movement, purely because it's so convenient. One of mine is coming up due for a battery change soon, after just over three years. In that time it has gained about six seconds. Case polishing and finishing and dial quality is exactly the same across all movement types, so you're getting a watch of incredible quality and the 9F movement itself is also a thing of beauty, and hand finished. Also, they'll go decades without a service. (I've also owned over a hundred auto and manual-wind vintage GS at some point, but that's another story altogether).

A bit more about my 9F here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=906326

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by njlam

Thanks. That is the type of info I am looking for.

What about the movement? It seems like the Spring Drive is what they are known for? Self wind or automatic?

An automatic Hi-Beat also very much worth considering. GS is a fine watch.

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I have a couple of 9F quartz GS and my next one would probably be the same movement, purely because it's so convenient. One of mine is coming up due for a battery change soon, after just over three years. In that time it has gained about six seconds. Case polishing and finishing and dial quality is exactly the same across all movement types, so you're getting a watch of incredible quality and the 9F movement itself is also a thing of beauty, and hand finished. Also, they'll go decades without a service. (I've also owned over a hundred auto and manual-wind vintage GS at some point, but that's another story altogether).

A bit more about my 9F here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=906326

Ah yes, big fan of the 9F series. Accuracy and durability at it's finest. I'm also a fan of the spring drive. GS is a superb watch.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

I have a couple of 9F quartz GS and my next one would probably be the same movement, purely because it's so convenient. One of mine is coming up due for a battery change soon, after just over three years. In that time it has gained about six seconds. Case polishing and finishing and dial quality is exactly the same across all movement types, so you're getting a watch of incredible quality and the 9F movement itself is also a thing of beauty, and hand finished. Also, they'll go decades without a service. (I've also owned over a hundred auto and manual-wind vintage GS at some point, but that's another story altogether).

A bit more about my 9F here: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=906326

I think a complete GS collection would be a 9F quartz, a high-beat (i.e. SLGHxxxx), and a spring drive (i.e. SLGAxxxx or the old snowflake).