Visit to Geneva Patek Salon - A Horological Journey

[texex91]

Originally Posted by HauteHorlogerie

Awesome that black dial 5204P is perfect.

Both black and white are amazing, but the black is jaw dropping IMHO.

[nick c]

Wow amazing watches

[toomuchtalk]

Great thread...

[chonlei]

The black 5204p is so cool. Does it wear very thick? Do you think it is practical to wear it on a daily basis?

I wear my 5270G (first series) on a daily basis when going to work. Tempted to trade to the black 5204p!

[benlee]

Originally Posted by iazrollie

Best thread ever. I still don't understand the rationale for the "dip." Why couldnt the font of the tachymeter be in the same style as the original minute numbers on the older version???

I think the previous version 5970 was designed with the tachymeter so the movement fits perfectly whereas the 5270 series wasn't. That's why in order to fit the 6 o'clock sub-dial and the tachymeter, the "dip" becomes a necessary compromise.

Originally Posted by lipjin

I like the dip:) awaiting more write ups! Been a great thread thus far. Did u get a chance to try the minute repeaters?

Yes, coming up next!

Originally Posted by orangedial

This thread is EPIC
Thanks buddy

Thanks Buddy. It's time for your first PP!

Originally Posted by HL65

Great write up Ben and love that 5204P!!!! Soooo nice! I am actually headed to my AD today to pick up my book. Thanks for sharing...Cheers,

Very Cool. You will love that book!

Originally Posted by chonlei

The black 5204p is so cool. Does it wear very thick? Do you think it is practical to wear it on a daily basis?

I wear my 5270G (first series) on a daily basis when going to work. Tempted to trade to the black 5204p!

Not thick at all. The proportions like the 5270G are spot-on. The slightly smaller case diameter might make the watch looks a tad thicker. Welcome to TRF!

[mikkemus23]

Love this thread, thanks for sharing

[slowhand]

Fantastic thread Ben! Thanks for all your efforts.

[benlee]

Patek 5216P Retrograde flyback Perpetual Calendar Tourbillon Minute Repeater Grand Complication

Hope you guys are enjoying this so far!

Now, we are moving on to the truely grail pieces, the highly desirable Patek Grand Complication application pieces that are so rare and exquisite, one can almost never see them in an AD for sale, except maybe during special exhibition by Patek. I now present to you the triple complication Patek 5216P-001 Retrograde Perpetual Calendar Tourbillon Minute Repeater.




I do not need by now to say how beautiful this piece is or how finely it is crafted etc… etc in case I bored you further. What’s interesting is the triple complication movement in this piece. Release first in 2013, the watch features the Caliber RTO-27PS QR ( why does Patek use such difficult to remember alphabets and numbers for their Caliber names? ) which incorporates within the 39.5mm case a retrograde perpetual calendar with day, month and lead year indicators in apertures and a retrograde date dial at the top centre of the watch. Retrograde is a very cool complication. How it works is that on reaching the last day of the month, ie 31st or 30th ( or 28th / 29th for Feburary ), the date hands swings back to 1st in one swift motion. This might sounds easy, but the mechanical ingenuity required to program such a complication is not easy as the calendar movement must determine what date the month will ends and accordingly store just sufficient energy to perform the feat.




The watch houses a tourbillon escapement as well. Typical of Patek’s design philosophy, Patek wants all watches to have a clean uncluttered dial and displaying the tourbillon in the front, while fanciful, ultimately distract from legibility. However, the Tourbillon is available for the owner’s viewing pleasure when flipped over in the Sapphire case back. The movement of the tourbillon is a sight to behold. Unique also to the higher grand complications is the Calatrava emblem at the 12 o’clock position which I think is where the balance-spring is. Goes without saying the movement is so exquisitely crafted that it’s just breath-taking to see, especially under a loupe.




Now the Minute Repeater complication. According to horological history, minute repeaters was invented for clocks and pocket watches back in those days where electrical lighting isn’t common and people need to tell the time in the dark. Of course, nowadays it’s just a fancy complication to have but the skills and technical expertise to incorporate a minute repeater mechanism into the wrist watch is by no means easy and few brands know how to do them well and make it sound good. Fortunately, Patek is one of few that can and upon activating the slide on the right hand side, the watch chimes the current time in hours, quarter hours and minutes with two gones of high and low pitch. Here’s a video of the minute repeater mechanism in action…. ( I hope it works... )




And yes, it is true. Mr Stearns personally listen to every single minute repeater himself. The watch only gets to be approved for release to the final customer if he is completely satisfied with the quality of the sound. If he isn’t, the watch will be sent back to the workshop for fine-tuning. Occasionally, Mr Stearns does not approve of the sound even after re-tuning and then the watch is then dis-assembled and re-build again from scratch. Just like music, listening to minute repeaters can be subjective and one may prefer one sound over another but while every minute repeater sounds can sound a little different, even within the same model, the richness, warmth and consistency of the chime is the defining characteristic of what all good minute repeaters share.





The Patek 5126P wears comfortably on the wrist and at first glance it has a rather elegant understated appearance and bears resemblance to some of the retrograde perpetual calendars in their product line. As an application high complication piece, it sadly commands a price that I doubt I will ever be able to afford anytime soon. Still I value the experience very much to be able to handle such a magnificent watch.


About Patek Application Pieces.

A note about so called Application Pieces from Patek that I learned during my visit. These are timepieces that are so exclusive and rare that usually they are made to order to a selected number of clienteles that wish to own it. The 5216P is one of them. When a potential customer wishes to own such a piece, it can applied for this piece ( hence the term “application pieces" ) through either the Salon directly ( if they are a Patek Salon customer ) or through their Patek authorized distributor.

Madam Marielle explained the process of acquiring an application piece to clear up some misconception. Usually, the customer has to work that thru their Point-Of-Sale ( ie POS ), which must be a Patek Salon or Patek Authorized dealer. It will be helpful if the potential customer currently owns several or many pieces of Patek watches but it is not a must. The AD has a big say on this so it certainly helps if a customer stays with a single POS consistently for their acquisition. Once the application is approved, it goes to a wait-list that can stretch for a few years on end depending on how complicated the piece is and the availability of watch makers for that particular application model.

Another key criteria is that Patek wishes all potential customers to treasure and keep the watch they bought. Patek do not like to sell their exclusive application pieces to individuals that are likely to resell the watch in a short time either for a quick profit or because they got bored with it easily ( Sorry Flippers! ). If this happened, and there isn’t a good reason to do so, the customer can be subsequently “black-listed” from being able to acquire future application pieces. Apparently this has happened on a regular basis from time to time from what I was told.

Next up, an even more grander Grand Complication and my #1 favourite of all the watches I previewed so far! So stay tuned!

To Be Continued!

[dwell]

Nice, Nice, Nice.

[conkers]

A beautiful piece indeed! I must confess that there's a huge amount of disinformation about the application process out there, much of it coming from the ADs themselves!

[FlyinM3]

I'm just drooling

[Vipes]

Wow is all I can say! Can't wait for the next piece!

[JorgeCCW]

I always liked the 5496P but this big brother is amazing !

[nyc2la]

Wonderful thread - thanks! And that 5216p is just incredible.

[FlatlineEF9]

This is my new favorite thread on this forum...and on the internet lol

[RussW]

Fantastic write up. It would be great if this could be reformatted as a single post once finished as I'm sure there are many of us who will be coming back to read this several times. Looking forward to the next instalment!!

[conkers]

Originally Posted by JorgeCCW

I always liked the 5496P but this big brother is amazing !

Me too! Can anyone explain why the 5496P is so unloved? The discounts are huge.........

is it that it is just too expensive for a PC?

[lipjin]

Originally Posted by russw

fantastic write up. It would be great if this could be reformatted as a single post once finished as i'm sure there are many of us who will be coming back to read this several times. Looking forward to the next instalment!!

+1

[gregvisser]

This is turning into a definitive Patek reference material. I can't stop coming back. Nice job!


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[HauteHorlogerie]

Originally Posted by conkers

I must confess that there's a huge amount of disinformation about the application process out there, much of it coming from the ADs themselves!

Amen brother. Lots of disinformation indeed. Same goes with Ferrari allocations....dealers are to blame for most of it. Same with the stainless daytona..

[HL65]

OMG amazing!!!!

[CWIN]

Great write up so far Ben! Looking forward to the rest

[texex91]

Just fantastic...next installment is highly anticipated!

[benlee]

Patek 5074R Minute Repeater Perpetual Calendar

Finally! Here comes my favorite of all PP timepieces I have previewed so far! A watch so breath-takingly beautiful that when I first laid my eyes on it, it’s instant love-at-first-sight for me and becomes now the grail watch in my dreams. I present to you, the Patek 5074R Minute Repeater Perpetual Calendar Grand Complication.




Housed in an impeccably crafted and polished 42mm case, the 5074R is, size wise, the big brother of Patek Grand Complication watches. The round case is staggered in two layers, an outer ring and a inner platform ring to play and reflect surrounding light. The lugs were beautifully designed and I think is the inspiration for the modern Calatrava like the 5127 and 5227. I also love how that distinctive moon-phase stands out from the dial. Despite displaying a lot of information, the dial is to me uncluttered and very well balance.








The watch houses the Caliber R27Q movement which is a self winding movement with a micro-rotor. The movement intertwins the perpetual calendar movement and the minute repeater functionality into one. All the indicators for the day, date, month, leap year are with hands and subdials. Due to the larger size, the watch is very easy to read compared to say other perpetual calendars from Patek’s range that has much smaller dial size and still using subdials.

The movement is viewable from the sapphire case back in all it’s glory. Again prominently displayed is the Calatrava emblem at 6 o'clock. Also notice the fine details on the micro-rotor. Goes without saying it is perfectly finished in every way.





The minute repeater is also special as it has “cathedral gongs”, to duplicate the sound of the church bells. For me, the sound is definitely richer and nicer to the already nice sounding 5216P. To achieve such a feat, Patek tried many combination of gong size and case design to achieve the desired sound that resulted in the 5074 design. Designing a minute repeater with the exact desirable sound quality especially one such as the 5074 is not an exact science and calls for the a certain level of experience and skills that only the best watchmaker poccessed. I can forsee that the rejection rate for such a watch might actually be high, which factor into the cost.

Here’s a video of the minute repeater in action ( sorry for the poor quality.. )





The Patek 5074 was first launched way back in 2002 and had remained in production since, testifying I supposed to it’s enduring “timeless-ness”. I was told this is a rather “popular” grand complication even though very limited number of pieces were made by Patek every year due to the sophistication of the minute repeater mechanism and the limited number of watchmakers that have the skills to do it. While I do not have an exact number, it’s probably not more than 10 or even less. Kind of put into perspective what other brands would openly tout as “limited special edition” when their numbers run into hundreds and thousands. The waitlist for this model is 2 to 3 years for those that are keen and have half a million quid to spare.








Putting this on the wrist, as expected, this timepiece commands phenomenal wrist presence and certainly draws attention. There is also a black dial version which I did not have the chance to see but I am quite sure it is just as beautiful. Despite the slightly larger 42mm size, the watch sits very well on the wrist and doesn’t feel thick at all and maintain it’s dressy-watch proportions and elegant looks.





I am so in love with this piece that I spend more time with it then any other watches I previewed during my time at the Salon. And I literally mourned when I had to hand the watch back upon my departure. It is without doubt the most beautiful watch I have ever laid my eyes on and handled in real life. For a moment, I entertained the thought of selling my entire collection to get this piece. Then reality struck and I realized even if I sell my entire collection, it is still not enough, ….sigh… I suppose this is the true meaning of a grail watch, it’s unattainable. For now..

For more about Patek minute repeaters, I highly recommend you to view this youtube video. Both the 5216 and 5074 I have featured is also in the video.





Coming Up Next! The 2nd most complicated PP wrist watch. The 1st most complicated PP wrist watch and it will be my final chapter/write-up for this thread. Stayed tuned and have a lovely weekend!



To be Continued!

[Nephro]

Thanks again for sharing! Phenomenal piece!

[hdrazor251]

Fantastic Ben.

The 5074R is absolutely amazing..

[gregvisser]

Loving the 5074. I was just killing some time in town today and my AD had one of these just sitting there in the case looking all lonely. Before I read this, I didn't actually know what I was looking at! LOL

He also had a 5726 which made my mouth water....

Greg

[el1125]

Originally Posted by gregvisser

Loving the 5074. I was just killing some time in town today and my AD had one of these just sitting there in the case looking all lonely. Before I read this, I didn't actually know what I was looking at! LOL

He also had a 5726 which made my mouth water....

Greg

It is highly doubtful your AD had a 5074 in the case just sitting there. You may be mistaken.

[JorgeCCW]

5074 is stunning ! Only minute repeater from Patek to boast cathedral gongs.


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[HL65]

Amazing again Ben!!!!! Love this thread...Cheers,