Minute hand alignment

[Daniel23456]

Folks,
I want to bring up something. I hack the movement at exactly 12 o'clock, set the time at the exact time, everything's perfect... And then a hour later I check the time and see that the minute hand doesn't align on the minute when the second hand reaching 12 o'clock.
Does anyone else experiencing this kind of problem?
Thanks!

[novocainekarma]

Yeah. It's a jump back of the minute hand when the crown is pushed back in. Pretty normal on newer movements but I can't say I've experienced it on vintage.
I compensate it by setting the minute just a shade past the marker, say where it would be at 5-10 past ish. That should set it to pretty much bang on the minute once it's running. Do it often enough and you learn the perfect spot to get the alignment.

[GMT Aviator]

When you fine set the minute hand, make sure the last movement to it you make before pushing in the crown is in the clockwise direction.
There is always backlash in the movement, all be it slight, and by only advancing the hand clockwise carefully before you start the watch off again by pressing in the crown, you are keeping the gears nicely meshed together.

[JKolmo]

I do a combination of the two above recommendations. Works like a charm.

[HKS724]

Not to hijack this post but I own a 16600 and something similarly annoying is happening. I have painstakingly set the watch to the center of the minute, hacking it at 12'o clock, so many times!

However, it's as though the right half of the minutes (0-30) hit/align right on the marker, but eventually after advancing to 40 minutes and beyond its starts to be misaligned again. I wonder if it's a 'gravity' problem. I know it sounds nuts, it's driving me crazy, I'll take a time lapse when I have time.

[watchwatcher]

Yeah...pretty normal on the 3-series movements. The newer movements found in the new DJ's/DD's and SD43 are a lot more user friendly to set, IMO. As well as the Daytona movement.

[HKS724]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

Yeah...pretty normal on the 3-series movements. The newer movements found in the new DJ's/DD's and SD43 are a lot more user friendly to set, IMO. As well as the Daytona movement.

Thank you. It's just frustrating when the name of the game--to me anyway--is mechanical precision. But when the minute hand can't even divide by 60 properly, it kind of pisses me off.

However the 3035 movement in my 1984 Datejust 16014 is just PERFECT. Keeping amazing time and the minute hand align with the markers perfectly with very little effort in setting. So it leads me to believe its QC thing. The 16600 was recently serviced.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by HKS724

Thank you. It's just frustrating when the name of the game--to me anyway--is mechanical precision. But when the minute hand can't even divide by 60 properly, it kind of pisses me off.

. . .

You are trying to correlate painted marks on a reference dial to a series of cut gears and a complex gear train that is moving at 28,800 tiny increments in an hour.

The minute hand will always "set" into one of the cut gear slots, it is not infinitely adjustable. Likewise, because of lash and tolerance, any mechanical gear-train will drift at some rate depending on it's exact, not theoretical diameter/cut as well as the accuracy of the paint on the dial.

You cannot use a digital, infinitely variable, mind-set with a mechanical/physical interface.

[HKS724]

Originally Posted by Tools

You are trying to correlate painted marks on a reference dial to a series of cut gears and a complex gear train that is moving at 28,800 tiny increments in an hour.

The minute hand will always "set" into one of the cut gear slots, it is not infinitely adjustable. Likewise, because of lash and tolerance, any mechanical gear-train will drift at some rate depending on it's exact, not theoretical diameter/cut as well as the accuracy of the paint on the dial.

You cannot use a digital, infinitely variable, mind-set with a mechanical/physical interface.

Truly appreciate the knowledge!

Elaborating on my experience below

The painted markers - Admittedly, I have not measured or took a caliper to each marker spacing. But just from eye sight and continuous monitoring for a one hour cycle, the deviation is quite blatant, even to the naked eye. Namely:
1) The minute hand will hit right on the minute marker every 60 seconds on the right half of the dial (0-30 minutes). And given it's a pointed Mercedes style hand, this is very easy to see.
2) As it advances to the left side of the dial (40-60 minutes), the minute hand does not hit, but it behind the markers.
This is what concerns me – the dichotomy, depending on where the minute hand is.
In my case, I don’t think it’s the dial. But if it is? Like, WTF?! To think it’s a “Swiss-Made” COSC certified luxury watch and they couldn’t accurately paint?! I still need to take that time lapse I was harping about, but can’t seem to get my camera to focus without seeing a bad reflection and achieving a dead on POV.

Assuming:
1) These cut gear slots are precise and fixed
2) The markers are accurately painted and the dial is properly aligned to said gear slots
3) I set the minute hand at 12, got rid of “slack” and employed the above advice from other members
4) The watch is running properly

Everything should be good right?


I actually have a very physical and finite mindset when it comes to watches, as I am sort of a "dinosaur" (haha). This is why I don't understand the deviation, given the fixed gear slots (I did notice this, in some other watches, that it sort of “auto-corrects” and falls back right to hitting the minute markers after some time).

Also, I believe that with luxury/well-made consumer products, a higher level of critiquing is warranted and is healthy. The quality should be maintained. I want to experience and know I am in possession of a well-made, well-finished, precise mechanical watch, and this is not just what the brand and cohorts purport. I would feel so betrayed if it were the latter! But maybe it just needs some tweaking.

[nursejm]

Same here, my 114060 minute hand its not perfectly centered in relation to minute markings on the dial when the second hands completed a revolution, i have another mechanical watch Tag Carrera is not perfectly centered as well even if i hacked it perfectly at 12.

It is not unusual for a new luxury watch owner to scrutinize their watch to extremes and stress over any perceptible inconsistency they can find. Buyers go to the level of observing details that are below the threshold of reasonable expectation of perfection in a consumer wristwatch.

Certain moving or movable parts of a watch, particularly the second hand and the rotating calibrated bezels on sports models, have their exact stopping positions controlled by mechanical components (springs, gears, and rachets). So the exact precision of the stopping points for these elements can change slightly over time as the new mechanisms settle in and gradually wear over time from use.

The unaided human eye can perceive detail down to about 1/100th of an inch (0.25 millimeters), so it is possible to barely see these normal alignment differences of 1 or 2 hundredths of an inch. The few places where these might be noticed are:

-The markings on a rotating bezel compared to the corresponding marks on the dial.
-The second hand of a quartz watch, where it stops every second.
-The second hand of any watch when the watch is stopped.

These are not defects or imperfections. They are minor differences within normal tolerances of precision and wear for such mechanisms. In some cases, the watch manufacturer may intentionally set components a small fraction of an inch off to compensate for how the mechanism is expected to settle in from use.

[HKS724]

Originally Posted by nursejm

It is not unusual for a new luxury watch owner to scrutinize their watch to extremes and stress over any perceptible inconsistency they can find. Buyers go to the level of observing details that are below the threshold of reasonable expectation of perfection in a consumer wristwatch...

Definitely, the scrutiny is real!!

However, my concern revolves around the specific situation of my 16600 (right half of the dial vs left half of the dial). It is this inconsistency, in every hour revolution, that has got me confused! If it were all around misaligned (0-60 minutes) or vice versa, I think I wouldn't of even noticed to be quite honest.

[geebob]

Originally Posted by HKS724

Not to hijack this post but I own a 16600 and something similarly annoying is happening. I have painstakingly set the watch to the center of the minute, hacking it at 12'o clock, so many times!

However, it's as though the right half of the minutes (0-30) hit/align right on the marker, but eventually after advancing to 40 minutes and beyond its starts to be misaligned again. I wonder if it's a 'gravity' problem. I know it sounds nuts, it's driving me crazy, I'll take a time lapse when I have time.

You make me check mine My Explorer 1 doesn't behave like that.
I'm curious, how is your watch's time keeping? I mean, if mine behaved like that but it's still within spec (like -2/+2) than I wouldn't worry about it. It may annoys me, but frankly I don't look at my watch that close. I don't think I will ever looking for it (or even noticed it if my watch behaved like yours) if I didn't read your post.

[HKS724]

Originally Posted by geebob

You make me check mine My Explorer 1 doesn't behave like that.
I'm curious, how is your watch's time keeping? I mean, if mine behaved like that but it's still within spec (like -2/+2) than I wouldn't worry about it. It may annoys me, but frankly I don't look at my watch that close. I don't think I will ever looking for it (or even noticed it if my watch behaved like yours) if I didn't read your post.

HAHA exactly! I can get a bit OCD. I love aesthetics and looking at the dials of my watch.

It keeps time great. But the minute hand thing really throws it off visually. It can be off by almost the entire space (~75%) from the actual marker on the left side of the dial. And if I attempt to reset and advance it just a tiny bit from the marker to start, it passes it after one revolution, can't win.