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ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
31 May 2009, 10:58 AM
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#31 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
Also Orchi thinks...1968 is too late for GILT Dials... as Rolex started making Non-Gilt Matte Dial... on their mainstream Rolex watches from as early as 1967... It's rare to find 7016 with ETA 2461(25 Jewels)...the rest have ETA 2483(25 Jewels)... The early Tudor Sub cases..were more or less the same with the early Rolex 5512/5513 of the 60s...either they had pointy crown guards...or they did not... There is no such thing as "Semi Pointed Guards) The Auto-Winding Rotor assembly is interchangeable between ETA 2483 marked 25 Jewels... n ETA 2484(marked 17 Jewels)... that's probably why some ETA 2483 are seen to have been marked with 17 Jewels... Mismatched Auto Winding Rotor assembly.(like in this case) Small Rose in White Print with Gilt Minute Indexes Dial... was meant for its predecessor 7928(later case series)... Due possibly to similar Dial feet positions...the Rose Dial can possibly fit ETA 2483...(Orchi is still checking this) Last but not least...Orchi believes Rose Dial on Tudor Subs... should belong to Tudor 7922/7924/7928...NOT on Tudor 7016. Oh btw buddy Steve...just because some of those so called... Tudor 7016 with "Rose GILT Dial" were being sold...does NOT guarantee them to be 100% correct...in Europe or elsewhere. As Orchi could recall...some were thinking the early Tudor Sub comes with "SWISS-T<25" marking at 6 o'clock position... Those are FAKE. There are plenty of FAKES around...so buyers beware. |
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31 May 2009, 12:10 PM
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#32 |
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philippines
Posts: 71
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dial for 7928 cannot fit 7016 because they use different movement. 7928 tudor uses cal 390, while the 7016 uses cal 2483. dial feet for both model are not the same. so you cannot interchange the dial. mostly cal 2483 that are use in tudor are 17 jewels. ( take note 17 jewels not 25).
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31 May 2009, 12:54 PM
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#33 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: blaine
Location: memphis
Watch: my next find
Posts: 1,060
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movement 1. 2483 w/ wrong rotor
movement 2. wrong rotor w/ a rolex import code on a eta movement? movement 3. i'm ALL IN!!!!!!! that movement is correct. for a 7021 or 7016 don't know if it is A 2483 OR 2484 you can see we agree on something! but after being asked to do more research and finding the same discussion at another place i will continue to believe that those rotors ARE NOT CORRECT, RIGHT, GENIUNE, AUTHENTIC O.E.M. or N.O.S. i have asked kindly, and once again i ask, please show me another place to view some other examples like picture 1 and 2. every 7016/7021 sub i have found (DOZENSSS) have the same look as picture 3 respectfully, |
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31 May 2009, 01:20 PM
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#34 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
Orchi was told...ETA 2483/2461 may have similar dial feet positions as FEF390... found in Tudor 7928/7924/7922...(Orchi is still checking). Nos. of Jewels for ETA 2483 is 25 Jewels...as catalogued in many references... You need to doublecheck that...too. Apart from the Date Wheel assembly...ETA 2483(no date) n ETA 2484(date)... are quite similar movements...with the exception. ETA 2483 has 25 Jewels...marked on the Auto-Winding Rotor assembly. ETA 2484 has 17 Jewels...marked on the Auto-Winding Rotor assembly. Both share similar Auto-Winding Rotor assembly...BUT marked differently. On the so called "Tudor 7016 with small Rose GILT minute indexes Dial"... Orchi also read that by MID 1960s...Rolex changed ALL Rose logo Dials to Tudor Shield logo Dial... So by 1968...it would also be too late for Tudor 7016 to have any Rose GILT Dial... UNLESS not intentionally n originally done so by...ROLEX/Tudor....that is. Mismatched features possibly from somebody's figment of imagination early on... would be more logical thoughts for Orchi... |
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31 May 2009, 01:50 PM
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#35 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: La belle Province
Posts: 6
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Buddy Orchi, the 7016 with rose gilt dial is 100% correct
And the movement with montres tudor and 17 jewels is also A-ok.
Here is my gilt 7016 with semi pointed crown guards, a 17 jewel Montres Tudor rotor and 7528 stamped on the caseback....  I also have other tudors, non sports models, which also have the same movement stamping with 17 jewels which were purchased by very respectable dealers who post here very regularly. The key to spotting the fake movements is in the quality of the circular polishing, or ebauche (?)...if it's a consistent small circular pattern, vs a combination of a both the small and also a larger evenly spread pattern (compare the base plate polish pattern, vs the rotor plate polish pattern of the movements in this post) then chances are it's not real. Regarding the 17j vs 25j, my understanding is that both are correct for the 2483 caliber, it just depends on where the watch was intended to be sold. The story i remember reading ( and someone please correct me if i am wrong) is that in the late 60's there was a US restriction on the importation of either the jewels that were being used in high jeweled movements, or of the actual movements with more than 17 jewels in them, in an attempt to protect the US based watch jewel manufacturers. So tudor / eta decided to offer the tudor line with less jewels for north America, avoiding extra tariffs on there lower priced watch collection which would have raised prices higher than they had aimed for in the market. Either way, i respectufully disagree with the general direction of this post, and actually believe that a beautiful 7016/0 was sold for a lower price than it was worth...possibly because of this chain of post s.... But hey, look at it this way... Someone got a sweet deal for a rare 17 jeweled gilt dialed, semi pointed crown guard transitional 7016 ;-) regards John |
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31 May 2009, 02:03 PM
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#36 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: La belle Province
Posts: 6
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Oh, and 7016 and 7928 dial feet are not even close to interchangeable..
7016 / ETA 2483 feet are at 2:00 and 8:00
7928 / FEF 390 feet are at (approx) 11:00 and 5:00 There is also a major difference in the construction odf the mailplate of a 2483 and a 2484...the dial feet of ta 2484 is te same as a modern eta movement like a 2824 and the position of the screws for the 24XX date movements is totally unique to all other eta date movement as the screws used to hold the dial are not screwed straight into the movement from the side, as on a 2483, Notice the small screw coming staight out of the side of the movement At the 4:00 position below the stem)  Instead they are screwed in on an angle from the side. (The image is not a tudor movement but is in fact a 2452 but you can see the notches in the side of the movement beside the holes for the dial feet. This is where the screws are located)  While i believe the rotors are interchangeable, the rest is not... respectfully JB |
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31 May 2009, 02:17 PM
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#37 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
Glad you could contribute...in this thread. Orchi read this...possibly posted by you in the VRF in June 2008... where it was mentioned... 2483, 0r a 2461, which both use a similar dial feet position to the 390, but it is ever so slightly different http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...onal+7016+dial Also Orchi mentioned earlier... many references of ETA 2483 catalogued it to have 25 Jewels... Is the Auto-Winding Rotor assembly interchangeable between ETA 2483(25J) n ETA 2484(17J)...? |
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31 May 2009, 02:53 PM
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#38 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
On the matter of the Auto-Winding Rotor assembly being interchangeable... as agreeable with you...would it then be mixed up... that the legible markings on Rotor blade.... n the legible markings on the frame of the Rotor wheels assembly be...different...? 
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31 May 2009, 02:55 PM
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#39 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: blaine
Location: memphis
Watch: my next find
Posts: 1,060
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that there is the reason why i have asked, please post photo of the other side of the movements, since the dials are off.
looking for the tudor mark on the watch movement plate. Johnnyb- I LOVE THAT MOVEMENT!!!!!! number visible (very veRY VERY)COMMON ON 2483/2484) never a seen, saw or heard of a rotor listed in this post. respectfully |
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31 May 2009, 03:07 PM
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#40 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: STAN
Location: KY-USA
Watch: Rolex Prez
Posts: 12,584
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...okay, here is one of my 7016 with...
...a 2483, 25 Rubies mvmt.
...notice the front of the mvmt. ...notice the 25 Rubies stamping. ...notice the rotor. ...and, notice the dial. ...notice the 7mm TWINLOCK crown. ...to avoid further confusion about the dial and rotor questions, I am sending mine to Springer and he is taking it to RSC Dallas for a servic, IF they will take the vintage piece. If not, there are two experts there that will at lest examine the watch. ...I BELIEVE that the hands, dial, and rotor on my watch are GENUINE and may have been switched out during an earlier svc. ...,once I have the watch back and ANY info from Springer, NO MATTER what the verdict, it will be posted in this thread. Stan. Picture 016.jpg Picture 015.jpg Picture 017.jpg Picture 004.jpg Picture 005.jpg Picture 008.jpg Picture 010.jpg Picture 012.jpg |
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31 May 2009, 04:26 PM
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#41 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: La belle Province
Posts: 6
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Rotor wheel assembly markings...
Quote:
25 Jewels thick stamp 17 jewels thick stamp 17 jewels thin stamp My camera is broken, or I would be able to take all three shots as I have all three movements. I theorize different dates of production = different rotor configurations. And why wouldn't Tudor/Rolex use the Montres tudor rotors on both the 2483 and 2484 movements.. I always understood rolex was always "good to the last part" when it came to using what parts they had available. Something that i think would especially ring true for their lower priced brand where profit margins were everything... All the best JB |
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31 May 2009, 04:43 PM
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#42 | |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: La belle Province
Posts: 6
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Tudor 7016 dial variants...
Quote:
Buddy Orchi, With all due respect to buddy Larry and his PDF... I beleive there are 4 variants on the 7016 dials 1) Rose with gilt markers as above and below(semi gloss black finish)   2) Rose with white markers (flat black finish)  3) Tudor shield with rolex marker layout (maxi dial???)  4) Tudor shield with Snowflake markers in Blue or Black   regards JB |
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31 May 2009, 06:04 PM
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#43 |
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Philippines
Posts: 71
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you are right buddy John... the beautiful tudor 7016/0 was sold for a lower price than it was worth... actually nothing is wrong with the watch posted in this thread. everything is original... i don't know why some people are trying to discredit the watch, this is not good for the watch forum since it will not only affect the seller but also the buyer. thanks john for your valuable contribution to this thread... really appreciate it very much.
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31 May 2009, 10:53 PM
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#44 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,934
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Quote:
since the Auto-Winding Rotor assembly is interchangeable... then the Auto-Winding Rotor assembly of the watch in eBay...could be a later replacement... which would then explain why it is marked on the Rotor assembly as having... 17 Jewels instead of 25 Jewels originally by Rolex/Tudor... which has been catalogued by many references to be so... Orchi can also agree with you...in the case where you mentioned...Rolex would use the remaining available parts in stock on their production of watches...SAFE always in Orchi's beliefs... that there was NO mixed up of the relevant markings... as intended by them...technically when the watches left the factory. Any mixed up such as in this case to the watch posted in eBay...could have been a later incident(s)...not intended by Rolex/Tudor to begin with. Nevertheless...until any further provenance can be obtained later on... on the issue of the possibility that the Dial feet positions on the movements... could be similar or NOT...it then still leaves a doubt in Orchi's mind that... the Dial that was fitted to the watch posted in eBay... could be originally meant for Tudor 7928...n possibly NOT for the Tudor 7016... Last but not least to Buddy VTime... IF the relevant party(s) here had pre-concluded unfairly... that the concerned Tudor 7016 watch was possibly FAKE... it would have been reported to eBay...to begin with. As much as Orchi is concerned... despite some party(s) disputing the authenticity or originality of the movement initially... the fact remains that NOBODY reported it to eBay for any possible violation of listing rules for the matter...in the very beginning... That did NOT happen... To Orchi it would probably mean that everyone here... may have been raising the relevant issues about the watch... in attempts to learn more about the concerned Tudor 7016 watch... A couple of new forumers even joined in... to offer their individual knowledge n experiences... in attempts to shed some light on the relevant issues raised... Besides raising the relevant issues n questions about the Tudor 7016 watch... Orchi for one doesn't recall anyone condemning it as FAKE...yet. n until now...Orchi doesn't see any need for you to be defensive... or possibly be offended by it... |
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1 June 2009, 03:56 AM
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#45 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: blaine
Location: memphis
Watch: my next find
Posts: 1,060
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hello- on post 36 showing the picture of a 2483 marked movement, i know why i said;
"I LOVE THAT MOVEMENT" because it belongs to a 7016 M.N. 74 (marine nationale 1974) are you the owner? i am all in for a trade/cash or cash. would you also happen to have that card/ticket still? please pm |
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1 June 2009, 04:38 AM
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#46 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: La belle Province
Posts: 6
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The MN's not mine, sorry... Just using the scan for a reference..
...because you can see the dial screw
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1 June 2009, 04:44 AM
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#47 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: blaine
Location: memphis
Watch: my next find
Posts: 1,060
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maybe, it was a shot
 i have been huntin' for that dog!!!! that's the way I LIKE THEM  
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12 June 2009, 05:26 AM
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#48 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: israel
Posts: 16
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It's a calsic frankenstein watch
but this half of our life as well |
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12 June 2009, 01:02 PM
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#49 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: blaine
Location: memphis
Watch: my next find
Posts: 1,060
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greeting from wwt nawcc show in grand rapids mi. usa. the show is kicking! i have bought 3 tudor subs with square hands the sad part is someone else liked them better!
94010/7021/7021 sort of wished i'd kept the 94010, it was great! i just thought i'd reply in to this post. the ploprof will be my treasure i am taking home!! cheers |
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15 June 2009, 01:01 AM
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#50 |
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"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: blaine
Location: memphis
Watch: my next find
Posts: 1,060
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while at the show (WWT,NAWCC) i sought out the same mark on the winding weight. found one on a 7928 tudor it was easy, the case back DID NOT need a loupe. poor guy he wanted 1k (working the greed factor) anyways while the show was slow i took the movement to some people that also know!!
by the way none are members of TRF, i told them what i was doing (IT WAS SLOW during lunch time) we laughed! so with this i will say, we will have to agree to disargee. depending on the players in the market and the knowledge and experience they hold the people that i respect say that part never came from the factory P.S. there are also many here (TRF) that i respect, but haven't had the honor to meet! double P.S. THE PLOPROF 600M is MINE!!!!!!! a worthy trophy to bring home!
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