Validating a Yachtmaster

[allegedly]

Hi guys, hope everyones well.
Question for a relative of mine who's asked my opinion of a nice looking Yachtmaster. Applies mainly to UK based guys.
She was given the watch as a gift and the 'giver' was sure it's genuine.
At the risk of 'looking a gift horse in the mouth' so to speak, she took it to a couple of local jewelers while in town one Saturday morning. They both said it was not real. However, neither noticed the crown was not screwed in properly.
In fact one said it didn't and so it was clearly a fake.
So, I've just screwed it in for her.
I've done some basic research and it looks pretty good to me. The sweep is no different to my SeaDweller. There's a tiny etched crown at six o'clock, the finish isn't too bad, but clearly not new. There's some condensation inside the crystal, (caused by the crown being out all the time and she works in a local swimming pool), so getting a clear view of the face isn't possible yet, but what I can see looks neat and precise.
I've not had the opportunity yet to get the strap off and check numbers but there's good details on the strap. Would it be correct to have the same ident' numbers on the strap as a Submariner?
I've told her the best way to check is to take it to a Rolex watchmaker/repair specialist but she's worried that if it is a fake, they'll not return it to her for legal reasons.
Could this happen? And, secondly, could anyone recommend a good repair guy in the Doncaster area of England?
She is not the sort of person who would normally buy a Rolex or in all fairness, be able to afford one so, and I know this will piss off the purists, I've told her that if you like it, regardless of the outcome, wear it because you like it!
Cheers Rob
P.S. Still not had mine serviced/cleaned but I will this year and I'll post before and after pics. Anyone who's seen my pics will know it could do with it but hey, this is a working watch!

[Tony-GB]

Is it on a strap or bracelet? You say strap so it's on a leather or rubber?

Dealers didn't mention the crown possibly because it is fake & crown out has no consequence?

Pics please but not blurry ones from a camera phone if you don't want to waste the forum members time.

For someone to give a "genuine" Rolex as a gift means they are damn good friends- if not more- so who was the giver? Or did your relative find it?

Ta

[Tools]

The first thing to always ask, "Is a friend going to gift a $10,000 dollar watch to you"

No, a YM would not have the same markings as a Sub unless the bracelet was replaced with one from a Sub.

The crown unscrewed would NOT let water in to the watch on a relatively sound YM unless the inner seals were compromised.

Two sources have already told her that it was not authentic.. Why are you reluctant to believe them ???

On an authentic watch the etched crown is extremely small and not likely to be easily seen without a loupe...

If she chooses to keep it, it does need to be looked at if there was water inside.. No reason why the movement would not be reliable for several years.. An independent watchmaker would not confiscate it, nor would a Rolex watchmaker and neither has the right to keep it..

Rolex (not an independent) does have the legal right though to remove any trademark infraction so it may be legally defaced before returning it..

[allegedly]

Hello Tony,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I've just taken some pics and I'm processing them as we speak.
It's on a stainless steel braclet, marked on the back of the clasp:
D12
STEELINOX
62523H18
and on the link closest to the watch, at both ends, opposite sides:
116610.
The links are solid looking, not folded or hollow. Nicely engineered.

The watch itself, between the lugs, has:
ORIG ROLEX DESIGN
116622
and
STAINLESS STEEL
X41900
All the lettering of the engraving is neat, uniform and of good quality.
I've never examined a Yachtmaster close-to so to me the raised numbers on the bezel look a bit 'un-subtle', heavy handed but looking at pics on here and other sites I think that of the genuine ones too!!
The face has very neat markings and the 'blobs' of luminescent material of the twelve 'numbers' are neat and surrounded neatly by a raised metal ring.
On the back of the watch, opposite the eleven o'clock position is a stamped letter 'R'. No other markings on the back and the green holographic sticker is a genuine holograph, not just a repeated print.
By the way, I gave one of my daughters a vintage mans Rolex and my wife an even more expensive watch she liked so while I can understand your comment, if I say she was given it, it's not my place, or yours quite frankly, to ask her why nor to imply she might be lying.
Incidentally, I'm not one to hide behind an avatar. My names Rob Carswell and I live in Fort William, Scotland.
Like I said guys, advice on both my current posts welcome.

[Tools]

Sorry..

Those markings would indicate a fake watch..........

[Tony-GB]

Originally Posted by allegedly

Hello Tony,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I've just taken some pics and I'm processing them as we speak.
It's on a stainless steel braclet, marked on the back of the clasp:
D12
STEELINOX
62523H18
and on the link closest to the watch, at both ends, opposite sides:
116610.
The links are solid looking, not folded or hollow. Nicely engineered.

The watch itself, between the lugs, has:
ORIG ROLEX DESIGN
116622
and
STAINLESS STEEL
X41900
All the lettering of the engraving is neat, uniform and of good quality.
I've never examined a Yachtmaster close-to so to me the raised numbers on the bezel look a bit 'un-subtle', heavy handed but looking at pics on here and other sites I think that of the genuine ones too!!
The face has very neat markings and the 'blobs' of luminescent material of the twelve 'numbers' are neat and surrounded neatly by a raised metal ring.
On the back of the watch, opposite the eleven o'clock position is a stamped letter 'R'. No other markings on the back and the green holographic sticker is a genuine holograph, not just a repeated print.
By the way, I gave one of my daughters a vintage mans Rolex and my wife an even more expensive watch she liked so while I can understand your comment, if I say she was given it, it's not my place, or yours quite frankly, to ask her why nor to imply she might be lying.
Incidentally, I'm not one to hide behind an avatar. My names Rob Carswell and I live in Fort William, Scotland.
Like I said guys, advice on both my current posts welcome.

I didn't imply she was lying. I merely asked some questions to try & clarify a few issues on your post. There are fakes out there that fool dealers. Your name, location & avatar has no relevance to me. You asked some questions on a global forum. I, as a member, responded.

I hope you find all the answers for you & your relative & for the watch in question.

I'm off to get some popcorn.

[allegedly]

Thanks Tools,
As I said, I don't know enough to be a judge personally, hence posting on here.
The etched crown is only really visible under a magnifying glass, (don't own a loupe) and as I said to her and at the risk of annoying purists, even if it's not real, it's a nice looking watch and she should enjoy wearing it.
As for the moisture ingress, she swam with the crown undone, several weeks ago and apart from the condensation inside the crystal, it runs fine. I've looked to see if there's any visible 'O' rings on the stem but none I can see.
I've seen lots of fakes on my travels worldwide and this is not a bad, obvious one, which led me to question it.
Now, had he SOLD it to her, I'd be going round with a couple of biker mates for a chat.
Incidentally, what was it about the marking that made you so sure? My relation is not here at the moment and I warned her it may not be the news she was hoping for and I'd like to be able to be specific, if you don't mind passing on the info.
I'll still post the pics even if only for confirmation or as an example for anyone researching a possible purchase.
Regards Rob

[allegedly]

I understand your logic Tony and by way of an explanation I put my name and location as personal evidence that should this have turned out to be 'hooky' or whatever I and my relative are genuine as is the enquiry.
Regards
Rob

[Mickyfin]

From everything you have explained with regards your observations of this watch, I would have to say it sounds like a replica. Not a cheap $30 fake, but one of the higher end replicas around the $250 area. It may have a Swiss ETA movement in it though, and if so, that is worth saving/servicing.

[versatile1]

Real or not it needs a service. As soon as the back is removed you will have your answer

[allegedly]

Hi Micky, thanks for the input. I tend to agree and that's more or less what I told her to expect.
In fact, as I don't have a second watch I may offer to buy it off her to wear when I finally get around to sending my old SD off for it's service and polish, which I've been threatening to do for over 10 years!
I've downloaded the pics and they're not good so I'm going to do some more. The condensation is obscuring the detail of the face so I'm trying to temporarily clear the worst of it.
Regards
Rob

[allegedly]

My but isn't X41900 a busy little number?!!
After my initial post I took the bracelet of and checked the numbers online.
Just typing in the above brought up a raft of sites with the word Replica in the title.
I explained this outcome to my relative and as I'd already prepared her for the worst, it didn't go too badly. To be fair to her, her first reaction was to feel sorry for the person who gifted it to her. Whether she 'tells' is up to her.
A sobering lesson learnt which means someone, somewhere may have spent a lot of money due to mis-placed trust.
Having seen so many bloody convincing 'replicas' on line while researching this, I'm not going to bother posting the pics. Suffice to say, there are some out there that'd fool all but an individual with the right knowledge and tools.
Thanks for the assistance and input guys even if it was not the happiest ending for the lass.
Regards
Rob

[chicfarmer1]

Originally Posted by Tools

The first thing to always ask, "Is a friend going to gift a $10,000 dollar watch to you"

If only common sense were deployed right away, and you know damn well that is not the kind of life that fits the person, most people who are honestly in the dark about these things (vs. testing waters for other reasons) would just stop and wake up.

[mmmk604]

Why would anyone give someone a fake Rolex?!
The person who receives it will eventually find out it's a fake...

[mmmk604]

Originally Posted by Mickyfin

From everything you have explained with regards your observations of this watch, I would have to say it sounds like a replica. Not a cheap $30 fake, but one of the higher end replicas around the $250 area. It may have a Swiss ETA movement in it though, and if so, that is worth saving/servicing.

I doubt it has a Swiss ETA movement inside, probably some cheap Chinese/Japanese movement. This watch has condensation inside, cheap seals or no seals were used.
It's worthless and not worth the money to get it serviced.

A good fake will at least have a correct number of digits in the serial number

[Johnny H]

Come on, let's see some pics :/