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12 October 2018, 10:49 PM | #31 | |
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I took losses on two of the pieces I sold. The money has been re-purposed and I am happier with fewer watches that I enjoy more. Once money is spent on luxury consumer items especially jewelry there is no expectation on my part that I will be able to get back what I spent. Those who cannot stomach the loss are deluding themselves.
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12 October 2018, 11:15 PM | #32 | |
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Not sure the last sentence makes sense though. Unless in the most extreme end of the spectrum. Most, myself included, just like the idea that they are not losing their entire purchase price. Or if the item appreciates, even better. I don’t mind a loss so much. It’s a hobby. Hobbies cost money. But I’m thrilled to know that I can get something out of the sale. It sounds like you didn’t even try to get the max out of what you sold. Truly, you are living the dream to not have to even think about this stuff. I look forward to some day getting to that point.
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12 October 2018, 11:21 PM | #33 | |
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I know people who own things that are worth less than they debt they have on them but they justify keeping them because of what "they" "paid" for it. They cannot accept that someone else will not pay just as much. Life is too short.
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12 October 2018, 11:29 PM | #34 | |
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But it’s tough to live it completely. Like I said above, I too am less enamored with watches than in the past. I think I just burnt myself out. And I’ll soon be reducing my collection to pay for expenses related to a newly purchased home. I will potentially even sell gray to avoid the hassle. Which is what Ive mostly done in the past. So I do agree with your mindset. But if I go gray or sell on my own, I’ll definitely still try and get the most I can. To a certain degree. Life is too short. And this is not our living. I too would prefer to spend my time and energy elsewhere.
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13 October 2018, 01:18 AM | #35 | |
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And yet it's still [insert your word here - mine is "annoying"] losing tens of thousands of dollars overnight on a watch. No one likes being a "fool" - be that buying a watch, a new GTC4 Lusso, or your Yacht. Maybe I'm just not rich enough to think to like you. (and I mean that seriously). OR Maybe this is valid concern to even the wealthiest purchasers of any good. |
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13 October 2018, 02:55 AM | #36 | |
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Not wanting to lose 50% isnt the same thing as expecting to make 50% and value retention has now morphed into a completely different area. People now consider a watch a "fallure" if you can break even on a used watch 2 years later. Weird.
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13 October 2018, 03:20 AM | #37 |
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I agree with what others have said.
I made my first few patek purchases without a strong knowledge about value retention. I just liked them. I have no plans to sell, but knowing they would be worth more than I paid gives me some satisfaction. Which is obviously a strange paradox. |
13 October 2018, 03:30 AM | #38 | |
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Once you move up the horological ladder value retention is important, imho anyway. It reminds me of the saying a fool and his money are easily parted. No one who is spending serious money likes to take a bath. Be it watches or anything else, it just isn’t smart. Btw if you ever want to sell your 5711 how does £500 sound? Not at all wanting to be confrontational but there are 2 sides to this and you seem very blinkered in your view. But each to their own |
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13 October 2018, 06:01 AM | #39 |
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Haha...I think the OP of this version of 5711 has one priced at £500...
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=633524 |
13 October 2018, 07:45 AM | #40 |
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Ironically certain blue chip watches might be considered to be more stable stores of wealth than stocks perhaps? Given the recent volatility in the market I find myself less likely to sell a good watch, not more likely.
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13 October 2018, 11:53 AM | #41 | |
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If you want a stable store of wealth buy income properties.
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13 October 2018, 12:22 PM | #42 |
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....right. ... (snarky comment eludes me at the moment) ....ahem, well then
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13 October 2018, 12:39 PM | #43 |
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That was not an attempt at humor and I didn’t mean to be rude. Apologies if it came off that way
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13 October 2018, 11:09 PM | #44 | |
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Btw,.. developed market equities and income properties over time have similar returns assuming 2-3% CPI Inflation :). People forget to factor in leverage ;) Recent rise in houses actually have a higher return 5% pirce x 4-5x leverage (mortgage/loan)or more = 20-25% Return. Stock mkt aint giving u that G man. |
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14 October 2018, 02:36 AM | #45 | |
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14 October 2018, 02:52 AM | #46 |
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Reasons why I love watches particularly Pateks and Rolexes:
1) enjoy art/beauty and retain value 2) meet great people - i’ve met some amazing people - Patek collector’s are a different breed though 3) because I can 4) asset diversification |
18 October 2018, 09:06 AM | #47 |
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You are trying to see if current prices will fall at the next crisis? Of course they will, usually it’s the watches and cars which are sold first and after that the second home or investment properties, not sure we will see Nautiluses and Aquanauts go under retail, but fall from the crazy prices that they are at now? Of course. The actual prices remind me of the bitcoin around last December, or real estate where I live before the crisis, two things which were doing so well that too many people who didn’t know very well, thiught that it would never burst, but guess what, it bursted, same will happen here, it’s inevitable, but we’ll probably see that only at the next crisis, but I garantee that they will gp down at the next one, totally sure about it, I mean honestly is a 5711 worth 50k??? Of course not, the people who are willing to out that kind of money are for a good part people who think like bitcoin investors in December or real estate buyers here, and I can tell you that many got wiped out, that the good times will continue, guess what they don’t, same thing will happen with the actual prices, when it goes up to fast and strong it’s bound to come crashing down one day...
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18 October 2018, 12:04 PM | #48 |
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I'm a lot more concerned about my portfolio than my watches. I think there's somewhat of a happy medium between resale value and owning watches that one likes. I only buy what I like and have no intention of selling, even though that's not always the case, but it's still nice to know that the watches one buys will retain most of what one paid. Rolex and Patek are great for this but so are other brands if bought right. I've never lost money on a watch, not including inflation or opportunity cost.
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18 October 2018, 12:34 PM | #49 | |
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19 October 2018, 07:53 AM | #50 |
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Not sure if others saw,...but Swiss watch exports down 7% this month.. i guess this is what happens when stocks decline. . maybe im going to be able to get my 5711r soon.
Separately tried on a 5711r at a grey dealer in diamond district.... its so pretty. The 5980/1ar definitely thicker noticably. |
19 October 2018, 08:04 AM | #51 |
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19 October 2018, 12:33 PM | #52 |
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19 October 2018, 02:28 PM | #53 |
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@fat_ninja
PM increased in units by 2.3 % but decreased by 14.3 % in revenue. TT increased the most by 19 % and increased by 13.2 % in revenue Steel decreased by 4.3 % in units and decreased by 9.3 % in revenue. Revenue from Singapore decreased by 49.4 % while revenue from China increased by 17.3 % The exports for watches above 3,000 CHF only decreased by 0.6 % in units, but decreased by 7.8 % in revenue. This means that < 3,000 CHF is affected the most, but everything > 3,000 CHF is pretty stable. |
19 October 2018, 09:31 PM | #54 |
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OP - yes, prices in the secondary / grey market will fall. Demand will fall across the board for new and used, and like 08/09 supply for used will increase because these are discretionary purchases and will be the first items to be sold by many.
FWIW, everyone thinks about value at some point. For one person that may be $10k in, for anothe that may be $100k. Some may not have reached thst point yet but there is a point at which it matters. Saying otherwise is really just nonsense. |
19 October 2018, 11:38 PM | #55 | |
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Thanks for clarifying that...My collegue was mentioning the stats to me. But said this is actually a decelleration. But he caveated and said singapore was a tough comp last year and this year had one day less. |
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20 October 2018, 01:21 AM | #56 | |
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You can believe me if I say I don't care about the value performance after I bought the watch. I treat a watch the same as vacation: I only use money I don't need and write it off instantly. This compared to my low image desire in open public gives me the chance to actually enjoy and live this enthusiasm. I don't need to care about Rolex, Patek (only interested in GCs which I can't afford) and AP as I can fully enjoy and actually wear better or equal watches from BP, VC, FPJ, GS, GP, ALS, GO, Breguet, etc pp. |
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