Half Roman, half Arabic dial?

[El Cascarrabias]

Go to 33:30 in this VIDEO.

Never seen or even heard of one like this.

Legit?

[Andad]

Interesting dial.

Did he tap the case for the crown or was he trying to drill it out?

Is he really a watchmaker?

[El Cascarrabias]

Originally Posted by Andad

Interesting dial.

Did he tap the case for the crown or was he trying to drill it out?

Is he really a watchmaker?

Heck, if I know!

[CTech]

These half Roman and half Arabic dials are now known as California dials. The original designs were fitted to bubbleback Rolex watches, probably in the mid to late 1940s.

There was a resurgence of this design of dial in the 1980s when there was a fashion for refurbished/modified/improved bubblebacks and many repainted or replica dials were fitted to genuine watches, usually with more modern replacement hands as well.

There are always a few of these repainted dials for a variety of different movements for sale on various sites, but almost certainly every one you'll come across now (unless it is on an original bubbleback) is not a genuine Rolex factory dial.

Search on California dial and you'll find a lot of information about the people behind the 1980s dials and why they are called California dials

[El Cascarrabias]

Thanks!

[R.W.T.]

The dial is a re-finished dial.

He kind of just screwed the pooch on originality because the case tube and crown he installed are not correct for the case. We do what we have to do.

The 7 3/4 size tube is VERY rare and the crown even rarer. It looks the same and probably no one would ever notice.

I have strong doubts about that crystal creating a water tight seal. I'd love to know if he tested it because it's a nice correct profile crystal it seems.

[77T]

Once the original tube snapped in half during removal (probably due corrosion) the drill came out. Then he had to re-tap to the threading for his generic tube and crown. Now the midcase couldn’t be fitted with authentic OEM part even if one could be sourced. So from that viewpoint, not original nor authentic.

Same for the crystal and mainspring - catalog choices to be sourced. Had he been able to source NOS, the parts would have cost more than the watch would be worth.

That brings one to the dial. Nice look but again not authentic. He chose it due to “right diameter and the feet were in the right place”. The California dial is a desirable one in a bubbleback but hope this watch goes into circulation with the attendant disclosures.

As the market goes up and down for bubblebacks, this one would better fit the resto-mod genre vs. true restoration. As the narrator states, this is a polarizing matter in the vintage community.

Personally, the industry would be better served if the caseback was stamped by resto-mod watchmakers to denote such work. Use the s/n’s of both movement & case + a standardized “RM” mark for ID purposes. Just my


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[athom]

here is some in the same vein : https://perezcope.com/2019/10/05/vin...at-sothebys-2/

[powerfunk]

I love California dials. In addition to Bubblebacks there are some legit original California dials on Speedkings. Wish I still had this one:

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by 77T

Once the original tube snapped in half during removal (probably due corrosion) the drill came out. Then he had to re-tap to the threading for his generic tube and crown. Now the midcase couldn’t be fitted with authentic OEM part even if one could be sourced. So from that viewpoint, not original nor authentic.

Same for the crystal and mainspring - catalog choices to be sourced. Had he been able to source NOS, the parts would have cost more than the watch would be worth.

That brings one to the dial. Nice look but again not authentic. He chose it due to “right diameter and the feet were in the right place”. The California dial is a desirable one in a bubbleback but hope this watch goes into circulation with the attendant disclosures.

As the market goes up and down for bubblebacks, this one would better fit the resto-mod genre vs. true restoration. As the narrator states, this is a polarizing matter in the vintage community.

Personally, the industry would be better served if the caseback was stamped by resto-mod watchmakers to denote such work. Use the s/n’s of both movement & case + a standardized “RM” mark for ID purposes. Just my


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I work on these watches. I was trained by a Certified Rolex Watchmaker who worked on them new. He didn't drill anything. The tubes GO IN with a broach and come OUT with reverse broach. There are no "keys".

If the tube broke off you take the remains out with a broach. If it doesn't come out clean you clean it with a tap of the correct size.

He didn't have the correct tube because...he probably doesn't have the literature to know what tube it is and probably wouldn't be able to source one anyway. The 7 3/4 tube is VERY hard to find. VERY.

Next... ... Tell me how he magically fit the original crown on a tube that it doesn't fit...because there ARE NO generic tubes that fit those crowns even the next size up.

It's NOT a 530. Those are bubbleback crowns...and as far as I know...good luck finding any...tubes. There are some 8 3/4 and 9 3/4 tubes on ebay but mostly people don't know what they are and just say "bubbleback" tube...well that's a can of worms.

That watch uses one crown and one tube. Many other references use...several different sizes...so you kind of have to know what you have before you start to try and find what to put back on.

Honestly I'm more surprised he didn't crack the case. That era has very strange metallurgical properties..and they are VERY brittle. I would be REALLY paranoid about going up a size on that case with a tap.

[77T]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

I work on these watches. I was trained by a Certified Rolex Watchmaker who worked on them new. He didn't drill anything.

See the drill at 12:25 mark.



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[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by 77T

See the drill at 12:25 mark.



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Okay. I didn't watch the whole thing..it was pretty boring. I only saw him using the tap.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by 77T

See the drill at 12:25 mark.



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He actually DIDN'T drill it out...he was merely making the remains thinner so that he could pull it out of the threads piece by piece.

At that point he could've cleaned up the threads slightly witht he correct tap and reinstalled a NEW 7 3/4 tube. But he didn't have one. I have NO idea what tube he's usiing...but there are no GENERIC tubes that fit those crowns...so I question how well that actually screws down onto the tube...or whether the new tube just recut the threads ithe crown.

[Andad]

How do I drill out or ‘thin out’ the remains without touching the original thread while shaking like a leaf?