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Old 9 September 2020, 02:58 AM   #61
roh123
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Originally Posted by joli160 View Post
Yes, you need to know the basics. But with vintage it’ all about the details. That,s where I get lost.

Expecting a vintage piece to be perfect is not realistic but when paying top dollar from a top seller it’s not to much to ask for an accurate description.

Thanks to TRF including your posts I am learning slowly
Is this piece not priced accordingly? Something tells me that pitting comes with a discount.
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Old 9 September 2020, 03:03 AM   #62
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Hey all,

So I've been reading the replys and seeing what the community says since I am not the most experienced at this, and I wanted to get a few different view points before I chimed in again.

I want to start by saying I know HQ has a stellar reputation and honestly, I would have no issue buying a watch from them after doing my homework on it myself. Their selection is pretty much unmatched in terms of vintage Rolex's and I have been a fan of their ability to get sought after pieces for a long time.

So this whole thing started originally because I was helping a co-worker find a birth year submariner. We were both on a work call waiting for others to call in and we started shopping for his sub on the phone together. I told him to go to HQ because of their reputation, selection, and the fact that they list the year right in the name of their listings, which makes it easy for a beginner to date a watch without having to do the serial number searching. He saw this one because it looked interesting to him (not his birth year but he liked the matte dial/patina combo of it) and asked if this was a good one. Thats when I started looking at the listing and found the mis-match of picture/listing.

I know we all are educated on what to look for and to look at any watch, vintage especially, with a careful eye, but he's just getting into it.

$11,000 is something we are used to seeing in watches since we are in the thick of the hobby, but $11,000 is still $11,000. Thats car money.

If I were to list my car for sale and said "Body is in excellent condition", then proceeded to include some pictures of a rusted out door panel, am I being transparent then? I mean the pictures are there right?

Again, I honestly love the detailed pictures that HQ takes of their watches. I RESPECT that they take "unflattering" pictures of the dial, case, bracelet, etc... to have that sort of transparency in their listings. If it were me on the hunt for a watch, I know to look at every picture, ask any and all questions, and email them for more info. My co-worker doesn't.
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Old 9 September 2020, 03:07 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Undefeatable View Post
My co-worker doesn't.
Still; he haven’t bought the watch because the case is described as excellent. :)

How should this piece be marketed? I think honest pictures and a fair price is enough. Kind of hard to sell a watch if you highlight the heavy pitting, recut case, later bracelet, oxidized relumed non-matching hands and a dial which is sub-par with dirty lume. No? They still mention many of the flaws.
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Old 9 September 2020, 03:15 AM   #64
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Description should match the pics.
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Old 9 September 2020, 03:17 AM   #65
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Still; he haven’t bought the watch because the case is described as excellent. :)
Hahaha correct.

BTW unrelated to this thread, your watch collection (checked out the link in your sig) is stellar. Just wanted to shout that out.
Also, just went to Sweden for the first time ever late last year (Gothenburg) and even though it was raining most of the time, I really want to go back, maybe check out Stockholm next time. I was on a 2 week Europe vacation and had 2 days there and one of the bars I visited there had one of the friendliest vibes of the trip. Also taking a walk up a hill (Keillers Park I think?) really was special to see the view from the top.
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Old 9 September 2020, 03:20 AM   #66
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Hahaha correct.

BTW unrelated to this thread, your watch collection (checked out the link in your sig) is stellar. Just wanted to shout that out.
Also, just went to Sweden for the first time ever late last year (Gothenburg) and even though it was raining most of the time, I really want to go back, maybe check out Stockholm next time. I was on a 2 week Europe vacation and had 2 days there and one of the bars I visited there had one of the friendliest vibes of the trip. Also taking a walk up a hill (Keillers Park I think?) really was special to see the view from the top.
Thank you!

Stockholm in the summer is beautiful. Don’t know enough about Gothenburg but happy you enjoyed it despite the weather.
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Old 9 September 2020, 06:52 AM   #67
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Is this piece not priced accordingly? Something tells me that pitting comes with a discount.
Indeed, it's an entry-level 1680 by HQM standards, presumably due to the pitting and some other condition issues, as mentioned.
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Old 9 September 2020, 07:55 AM   #68
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Have fun looking for any used watch that is not “excellent” as per the description these days.....almost impossible unless advertised as new lol
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Old 9 September 2020, 02:43 PM   #69
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HQ Milton is usually very good with its descriptions, and the photos show everything. I think the OP's example is more of an aberration than the norm.

They're not perfect, of course, and I've seen some issues in the past, such as not mentioning service parts or over-stating how "excellent" a watch might be. But in general, HQ is one of the best in the business for the amount of volume it deals with, in my experience anyway.

Also, they have a 5-day, no-questions-asked return policy, so the risk is super low, assuming you do your homework. There are plenty of other dealers out there who deserve to be picked on more.

Yes there are...including ones that do not disclose known damage and post pics that obscure said damage.


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Old 10 September 2020, 07:20 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Undefeatable View Post
I honestly love the detailed pictures that HQ takes of their watches. I RESPECT that they take "unflattering" pictures of the dial, case, bracelet, etc... to have that sort of transparency in their listings.
Yes. Descriptions can be pictorial as well as verbal.
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Old 10 September 2020, 12:24 PM   #71
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This.

It seems like such a description would really undermine their credibility, and I agree that condition should not be conditional upon age or use of the watch, but a pure reference like collector cars. Excellent should mean with only superficial signs of use and very little to differentiate it from a new watch. This one might be excellent for a watch that spent most of it life under water.



Would a case in this condition even be capable of reliable water resistance?


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Description should match the pics.
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Old 10 September 2020, 01:37 PM   #72
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Would a case in this condition even be capable of reliable water resistance?
It's not really possible to say without testing it, but significant pitting like this is likely to compromise the water resistance. Let's put it this way, if I were concerned about water resistance, I wouldn't take a chance on buying this watch. So it's not simply a cosmetic issue.
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Old 11 September 2020, 04:23 AM   #73
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Pitting is serious stuff. It’s the erosion of the stainless steel. In this instance the case. Zero water resistance in my view. It will continue to erode. Easy pass for me.
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Old 11 September 2020, 04:35 AM   #74
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Guys,

The description has to match the photos.
You can not say it is ok to describe it as excellent if the photo shows bad pitting. It is contradictory.

I trust HQ Milton and I would buy from them but I don't agree with this listing. Its misleading for the folks that have little knowledge.
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Old 11 September 2020, 05:03 AM   #75
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Description should match the pics.
What a concept.......
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Old 11 September 2020, 06:23 AM   #76
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Old 11 September 2020, 07:11 AM   #77
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HQ Milton would be doing themselves a big favor in the community if they joined the conversation...I'm sure somebody there reads this board. Surprised they haven't provided any input after 76 comments on their business.
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Old 11 September 2020, 07:27 AM   #78
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HQ Milton would be doing themselves a big favor in the community if they joined the conversation...I'm sure somebody there reads this board. Surprised they haven't provided any input after 76 comments on their business.
Nothing to gain from that. Trust me.
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Old 11 September 2020, 02:37 PM   #79
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I looked recently at a GMT they had and they were not only nice but they also really were up front about condition. Sent me extra pics and a video. I would say the OP's comments perhaps should have been sent to them directly and if not addressed brought here. New people will see this and end up buying watches from who knows who when a good honest company who helped pioneer the vintage game is there to help.
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Old 12 September 2020, 04:23 PM   #80
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this case is a 1680 red line sub feet first, currently for sale with box and papers asking price $78705. people want vintage Rolex just like vintage cars. "excellent" is not a term that has a standardized interpretation. Something for every price range.
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Old 16 September 2020, 01:38 AM   #81
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I too have sometimes seen some incorrect listings


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Old 17 September 2020, 04:41 AM   #82
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HQ Milton isn't the same company since Jacek left. This is my personal opinion. Scott Kaplan isn't very customer service oriented lets just say, which is why Jacek always handled that end of things when they were partners.

I personally would deal with Jacek's new company Tropical Watch any day before I dealt with HQ.. But that again is just my personal preference.
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Old 17 September 2020, 09:25 AM   #83
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HQ Milton isn't the same company since Jacek left. This is my personal opinion. Scott Kaplan isn't very customer service oriented lets just say, which is why Jacek always handled that end of things when they were partners.

I personally would deal with Jacek's new company Tropical Watch any day before I dealt with HQ.. But that again is just my personal preference.
Jacek certainly is good with transactions. He always makes you feel like he's dedicated to you as his only customer. He's got your back.
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Old 17 September 2020, 12:48 PM   #84
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Inaccurate descriptions - HQ Milton

Sometimes partners have different ideas and visions.

As a newbie - Jacek treated me fair, he talked me out of a couple watches at HQ when I was first looking at vintage, cash in hand he told me not to buy this or that. He paid me a very fair price on one, very very fair. I saw what he sold it for...

I think his current inventory reflects how he represented himself when we talked. I never really saw that when He was at HQ. His success deserved, With a good rep/trust comes clients, and good clients bring access to primo trades swaps etc.

His new site is primo - the graphics are unique and every watch is beautiful - I’m not an expert but judging from his inventory and the constant stream of new, killer watches - he will have a lot of success on his own.




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Old 17 September 2020, 01:10 PM   #85
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Hqm

I have had a few transactions with HQM in the past, including a not-so-great experience earlier this year when I tried to trade in a watch that I originally purchased from them.

I too believe that things have changed at HQM since Jacek's departure from the company.

I also agree that the descriptions could be more honest/transparent as the word "excellent" tends to be overused.
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Old 17 September 2020, 01:34 PM   #86
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I have had a few transactions with HQM in the past, including a not-so-great experience earlier this year when I tried to trade in a watch that I originally purchased from them.

I too believe that things have changed at HQM since Jacek's departure from the company.

I also agree that the descriptions could be more honest/transparent as the word "excellent" tends to be overused.
Regarding your comment about "excellent being overused," I would tend to agree. I see many watches being advertised as "excellent" that are far from being excellent by any stretch of one's imagination and are much closer to being in below average condition.

"Excellent" is also a word used in many hobbies that I partake in which identifies a condition that is better than average or above average but not mint condition.

For those involved with other collectibles and hobbies, and based on my experience, the progression for describing the condition of something usually goes like this: below average, average, above average, excellent, near mint, mint (sometimes referred to "like new") and NOS (new old stock).

As mentioned, honest descriptions are always the best policy, whether something is considered excellent, average or mint.
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Old 17 September 2020, 01:45 PM   #87
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Thank you for weighing in Springer. I have revised my opinion based on your experience.

I consider you the gold standard of vintage dealers. If I am ever lucky enough to have the funds to purchase my dream watch, I will be giving you a call.

Stay safe.
Thanks for the positive comment! I appreciate the kind words.

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Old 18 September 2020, 02:58 AM   #88
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HQ Milton isn't the same company since Jacek left. This is my personal opinion. Scott Kaplan isn't very customer service oriented lets just say, which is why Jacek always handled that end of things when they were partners.

I personally would deal with Jacek's new company Tropical Watch any day before I dealt with HQ.. But that again is just my personal preference.
I've had a similar experience. Jacek was very personable dealing with customers, my experience with Scott was that he was lacking with more than just customer service.....

HQ Milton isn't the same, especially when Jacek left...
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Old 20 September 2020, 12:54 AM   #89
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Jacek certainly is good with transactions. He always makes you feel like he's dedicated to you as his only customer. He's got your back.
This. Just bought my first watch from Jacek and I'm more than satisfied. I might be restating the obvious but in any vintage collector field (cars, guitars, watches) building customer relationships is the most critical thing. Especially when it comes to subjective opinions on factors like condition, rarity, pricing, etc.
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Old 20 September 2020, 01:35 AM   #90
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I tend to agree. I've been following Jacek now at Tropical Watch.

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