I’ve learned my lesson buying non-Rolex

[mgsooner]

*shakes head and scurries back to the Seiko forum*

[ajw45]

You post in the non-rolex forum about how it's silly to buy anything other than Rolex and then you're shocked at the negative responses? Srsly? Did you want a cookie? A thank you for saving us all from ourselves? No worries though, now that I know you have a $100k in watches it's all good.

I like the non-Rolex forum as a place to actually enjoy talking about other brands and watches. There are about a million value threads in the main rolex forum, I bet you'll get the response you're looking for there.

Originally Posted by Sub*Man

I’m pretty shocked at the comments. I was sharing an opinion, and I appreciate contrary ones, but the level of judgement and condescension here has taken me by surprise. The suggestions that I’m new to this game, not successful enough to afford the loss, etc, are wild. And humorous.

I don’t view watches as investments, but if I can focus my interest to a watch that won’t lose money, then I’ll try that.

I don’t post often but my background is in financial services. I’m passionate about timepieces but I try not be emotional. Also:

1. I’ve been collecting luxury timepieces for 20 years.
2. I run a $100m business that specializes in financial services consulting.
3. My watch collection hovers around $100k
4. I hate losses. Whether it’s a Tahoe, a Porsche, Leica, a custom Baker dining set or a watch. I’ve lost on things aforementioned. Ironically enough I have never lost on a boat...

My post was just to reflect the hate of a loss and my experience of never losing on a Rolex.

Thanks for listening.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Sub*Man

I think you should take your arrogance, and that heinous JLC, and go vigorously pleasure yourself....

$100k in watches and classy too!

[rootbeer7]

sums up the average Rolex wearer. Sad, very sad.

[xrole]

Originally Posted by ajw45

$100k in watches and classy too!

Money has never bought class.

[vman]

Originally Posted by Sub*Man

I’m pretty shocked at the comments. I was sharing an opinion, and I appreciate contrary ones, but the level of judgement and condescension here has taken me by surprise. The suggestions that I’m new to this game, not successful enough to afford the loss, etc, are wild. And humorous.

I don’t view watches as investments, but if I can focus my interest to a watch that won’t lose money, then I’ll try that.

I don’t post often but my background is in financial services. I’m passionate about timepieces but I try not be emotional. Also:

1. I’ve been collecting luxury timepieces for 20 years.
2. I run a $100m business that specializes in financial services consulting.
3. My watch collection hovers around $100k
4. I hate losses. Whether it’s a Tahoe, a Porsche, Leica, a custom Baker dining set or a watch. I’ve lost on things aforementioned. Ironically enough I have never lost on a boat...

My post was just to reflect the hate of a loss and my experience of never losing on a Rolex.

Thanks for listening.

Okay, this thread seriously delivered. Thank you for the laugh. And please tell us more about your financial status, collection size, and so on. All of us are impressed and are eager to learn.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Shit they waive bond in front of you how could you pass! He makes such a good bond as well I’m glad he did take it. Hell we had this argument several times before on here already

Well Daniel could have gone the Oscar route but instead his wife now has the bragging rights as he's just an action movie star like Jason Statham, bet that's his nickname at home.

[GB-man]

That’s not fair he’s far better than the bald guy who drives cars lol


Maybe when the bond wears off he will take on some more serious artsy stuff.

Screw the oscars I’d rather be James Bond

[improviz]

Originally Posted by ajw45

You post in the non-rolex forum about how it's silly to buy anything other than Rolex and then you're shocked at the negative responses? Srsly? Did you want a cookie? A thank you for saving us all from ourselves? No worries though, now that I know you have a $100k in watches it's all good.

I like the non-Rolex forum as a place to actually enjoy talking about other brands and watches. There are about a million value threads in the main rolex forum, I bet you'll get the response you're looking for there.

Just search for Fleetlord

[slcbbrown]

Interesting. After wearing and enjoying Rolex for 40 years (GMT, DJ, t- bird, 14060), I gave all mine to my kids and now wear non-Rolex, almost exclusively. I did keep my father's 1959 Thunderbird.

I try to buy watches that I will like and wear from various brands, and I'm rarely disappointed.

[Peterandwatches]

Good thing that JLC is a diver and can hold up to rigorous activities.

[Marchy]

Originally Posted by Peterandwatches

Good thing that JLC is a diver and can hold up to rigorous activities.

also better done in the morning so the watch gets wound enough to last the whole day. This is why I love divers watches

[the_natural]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

*shakes head and scurries back to the Seiko forum*

This made me laugh.

OP sorry, but especially in this current climate, talking about value retention, while bashing all non-Rolex in one breath (and in the non-Rolex forum to boot) is the last thing you want to do. 100% noob move (and I can say that because I've made all the noob moves by now).

Still, enjoy your Rolex!

[Rolextellstime]

What you look at like a bath I would look at like paying rent to wear the watch for that time, if you enjoyed them for a long time it's still a good deal :)

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by Sub*Man

I think you should take your arrogance, and that heinous JLC, and go vigorously pleasure yourself....

[Doctock]

So this thread seems to have taken a weird angry turn with lots of invective being thrown around.

I'd actually like to return to the OP's original point - unless one happens to buy a very SPECIFIC watch, the loss experienced is quite astonishing at this point.
Until the inevitable correction (and it's coming, sooner than folks realize - hint, the PP stratosphere seems to be popping) what are folks to do?
It used to be a fun "hobby" of sorts - you could buy a watch, wear it for a while, and then change it to another without taking a 50%+ hit, even from a non-negotiated MSRP.
Tastes change, styles change - I personally went through a phase where I obtained, loved, wore, bought new straps, etc for several watches, then changed the direction of what I wanted horologically. I was able, with a little loss, a little gain swap out what I had for other watches.
That was the good "old" days of pre 2017.
Now, that's almost impossible without a crystal ball. Even within currently popular brands.

I guess I interpret from @Sub*Man original post a fatigue with the overpriced to start but even worse situation when bought "well" pre-owned, then TANKING and making it VERY difficult to continue "playing with watches" without accepting multiple 4 and 5 figure losses IF you ever want to change things up.

[ajw45]

OP's original point was "only purchase Rolex."

Post "only purchase Rolex" in the non-Rolex forum and you'll get a negative response, that's to be expected. What would be weird is to be surprised at the response.

This is a hobby. These are luxury trinkets. You can see them as investments if you like but not everyone else does and it's not for anyone to tell anyone else how they spend their money or pass judgement on how they choose to enjoy their hobby.

Never have I ever seen a Ferrari 458 and thought the owner was an idiot for not buying a Toyota. The idea that people are entitled to enjoy luxury stuff and not have to PAY for it is not typical - Rolexes and Birkens have been the exception not the rule. Of course, feel free to think that Ferrari owner is an idiot but if you post on Fchat "only buy Toyota" it wouldn't be weird if you got banned for trolling.

Originally Posted by Doctock

So this thread seems to have taken a weird angry turn with lots of invective being thrown around.

I'd actually like to return to the OP's original point - unless one happens to buy a very SPECIFIC watch, the loss experienced is quite astonishing at this point.
Until the inevitable correction (and it's coming, sooner than folks realize - hint, the PP stratosphere seems to be popping) what are folks to do?
It used to be a fun "hobby" of sorts - you could buy a watch, wear it for a while, and then change it to another without taking a 50%+ hit, even from a non-negotiated MSRP.
Tastes change, styles change - I personally went through a phase where I obtained, loved, wore, bought new straps, etc for several watches, then changed the direction of what I wanted horologically. I was able, with a little loss, a little gain swap out what I had for other watches.
That was the good "old" days of pre 2017.
Now, that's almost impossible without a crystal ball. Even within currently popular brands.

I guess I interpret from @Sub*Man original post a fatigue with the overpriced to start but even worse situation when bought "well" pre-owned, then TANKING and making it VERY difficult to continue "playing with watches" without accepting multiple 4 and 5 figure losses IF you ever want to change things up.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Doctock

So this thread seems to have taken a weird angry turn with lots of invective being thrown around.

I'd actually like to return to the OP's original point - unless one happens to buy a very SPECIFIC watch, the loss experienced is quite astonishing at this point.
Until the inevitable correction (and it's coming, sooner than folks realize - hint, the PP stratosphere seems to be popping) what are folks to do?
It used to be a fun "hobby" of sorts - you could buy a watch, wear it for a while, and then change it to another without taking a 50%+ hit, even from a non-negotiated MSRP.
Tastes change, styles change - I personally went through a phase where I obtained, loved, wore, bought new straps, etc for several watches, then changed the direction of what I wanted horologically. I was able, with a little loss, a little gain swap out what I had for other watches.
That was the good "old" days of pre 2017.
Now, that's almost impossible without a crystal ball. Even within currently popular brands.

I guess I interpret from @Sub*Man original post a fatigue with the overpriced to start but even worse situation when bought "well" pre-owned, then TANKING and making it VERY difficult to continue "playing with watches" without accepting multiple 4 and 5 figure losses IF you ever want to change things up.

Let me ask you a question. What other hobby allows you to return items for new ones without taking a significant financial loss on your initial investment?

If you're into cars, the second you drive off the lot your car is worth much less. Modding cars? Car parts are worthless the second you use them. If you are into tech, all those high-end devices are worth much less after a few months. Fashion...same thing. Travel...obviously not.

[Doctock]

It would be nice if people paid a bit of attention to the words that are carefully chosen.
As your elementary school teacher probably said: Improve your reading comprehension!

Originally Posted by ajw45

You can see them as investments if you like but not everyone else does and it's not for anyone to tell anyone else how they spend their money or pass judgement on how they choose to enjoy their hobby.
Never have I ever seen a Ferrari 458 and thought the owner was an idiot for not buying a Toyota. The idea that people are entitled to enjoy luxury stuff and not have to PAY for it is not typical - Rolexes and Birkens have been the exception not the rule. Of course, feel free to think that Ferrari owner is an idiot but if you post on Fchat "only buy Toyota" it wouldn't be weird if you got banned for trolling.

I appreciate your point regarding what the ORIGINAL POSTER said. But why did you quote me and then make comments that are NOT what I was saying nor talking about?

Originally Posted by _speedmaster_

Let me ask you a question. What other hobby allows you to return items for new ones without taking a significant financial loss on your initial investment?
If you're into cars, the second you drive off the lot your car is worth much less. Modding cars? Car parts are worthless the second you use them. If you are into tech, all those high-end devices are worth much less after a few months. Fashion...same thing. Travel...obviously not.

My counterpoint to this, and again what I was trying to interpret from the OP's commentary has to do with a change I perceive over the past 30 years.
Watches these days lose SO much $ with every trade that the "fun" of "trying something new" or maybe a different brand has become impossible.

In NO way am I talking about using watches as INVESTMENTS!

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Doctock

It would be nice if people paid a bit of attention to the words that are carefully chosen.
As your elementary school teacher probably said: Improve your reading comprehension!
I appreciate your point regarding what the ORIGINAL POSTER said. But why did you quote me and then make comments that are NOT what I was saying nor talking about?

Let's talk reading comp:

You stated: "So this thread seems to have taken a weird angry turn..."

To which I responded: "Post "only purchase Rolex" in the non-Rolex forum and you'll get a negative response, that's to be expected. What would be weird is to be surprised at the response."

Cliffs: I disagree that the way this thread has turned out is weird, I don't think it's weird at all. Based on the OP's original post, which I quoted, I think the been as expected. What would be weird would be if everyone in the non-rolex forum was like, oh crap, OP is right, all our non-rolexes are garbage, thank goodness he showed us the light.


You stated: "I'd actually like to return to the OP's original point - unless one happens to buy a very SPECIFIC watch, the loss experienced is quite astonishing at this point."

To which I responded: "The idea that people are entitled to enjoy luxury stuff and not have to PAY for it is not typical - Rolexes and Birkens have been the exception not the rule."

Cliffs: I disagree with you, there is nothing astonishing at all about the loss of value. IMO, the opposite is true, 99% of the time luxury goods lose value the second you take them home and that is the norm, like losing $100k the second you drive a Mclaren off the lot. Of course, that's nothing compared to high end furniture, that stuff basically goes to zero the second the return period expires. What is astonishing has been the Rolex/PP bubble.


You stated: "I guess I interpret from @Sub*Man original post a fatigue with the overpriced to start but even worse situation when bought "well" pre-owned, then TANKING and making it VERY difficult to continue "playing with watches" without accepting multiple 4 and 5 figure losses IF you ever want to change things up."

To be fair, I was not specific in my use of "you", I meant that as a reference to OP: "This is a hobby. These are luxury trinkets. You can see them as investments if you like but not everyone else does and it's not for anyone to tell anyone else how they spend their money or pass judgement on how they choose to enjoy their hobby."

Cliffs: I interpret OP's original post differently than you - not a fatigue with pricing but a fundamental difference of perspective which prioritizes $ value retention as the only factor in choosing which watch to buy. Totally valid and that's his personal opinion, I think it was just ignorant to state that in absolute terms on this forum.

[Doctock]

My read of the original posting: Sub*Man said (very paraphrasing) - Wow, bought a non Rolex and found out the amount of $ I spent turned into a lot less. I Sub*Man conclude that nothing but Rolex holds its value.

The thread started talking about this topic and veered into discussion of watches as investments with lots of wise heads nodding in unison "Bad investment these watches" then some inter-thread battles with groin punching and other nonsense (the "weirdness") started coming into the thread.

I made MY interpretation of the comments and said: "Hey. I agree in part to the original posting, especially noticing that recently it feels as a private party that it has gotten MUCH harder to change one's watches without significant loss of money. This is different than my experience prior to ~2017."
That is all.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by Doctock

My read of the original posting: Sub*Man said (very paraphrasing) - Wow, bought a non Rolex and found out the amount of $ I spent turned into a lot less. I Sub*Man conclude that nothing but Rolex holds its value.

The thread started talking about this topic and veered into discussion of watches as investments with lots of wise heads nodding in unison "Bad investment these watches" then some inter-thread battles with groin punching and other nonsense (the "weirdness") started coming into the thread.

I made MY interpretation of the comments and said: "Hey. I agree in part to the original posting, especially noticing that recently it feels as a private party that it has gotten MUCH harder to change one's watches without significant loss of money. This is different than my experience prior to ~2017."
That is all.

Maybe it is you who needs a bit of reading comprehension. My counter to you was stating a loss of your original investment (i.e. your original purchase price) does not and should not dictate how much fun a hobby is. Despite the word "investment" appearing in my reply, it was not meant to lecture you about watches not being an investment (I gathered you knew this obvious fact already).

Anecdotally, I can't discount your experience of being able to buy and sell watches with less financial impact 30 years ago compared to present day (I don't have near that level of experience). What I can say contributes to this, atleast partly, is pricing of luxury watches are being priced more aggressively than inflation and wages. Compared with 30 years ago, a Rolex, for example, is less attainable by your present-day average working American. It therefor stands to reason the losses would be comparatively worse, as the price to entry has increased.

This might make it less fun. But, look at it with a glass half full. If you know losses on resale are prohibitive, then take your time on buying something special that will last in your collection. Enjoy the thrill of the hunt rather than the fleeting thrill of a purchase.