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Old 24 October 2021, 09:31 AM   #61
joli160
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Well the thing is not everyone has tens of thousands lying around to spend on multiple watches that they don’t want.

Some people actually spend years saving for a watch of their dreams as a present to themselves to mark an occasion
Yes very true, but ask yourself why should any AD give you free cash by selling you a Rolex for MSRP in today’s market.
Certainly you can appreciate that they prioritize buying customers. They would be silly to piss off loyal customers.
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Old 24 October 2021, 10:46 AM   #62
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Incorrect, Arum group own WOS..and Goldsmiths..and Mappin & Webb
Actually, the entity is The Watches of Switzerland Group. They changed their name three years ago.
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Old 24 October 2021, 04:28 PM   #63
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Actually, the entity is The Watches of Switzerland Group. They changed their name three years ago.
This
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Old 24 October 2021, 05:34 PM   #64
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Hello all, I am new to the forum, been lurking for s few months before I joined!

I only got into watches around 2019 and have found it to be such a fascinating hobby.
I have been trying to build a ‘relationship’ with a dealer in the UK (Goldsmiths) and have been popping down to the store to chat to the sales assistants every few weeks, and we’ve been getting on really well.
I have my name down for an Explorer II.

Today the sales assistant took me aside and said:
‘I want to be as honest with you as possible. I am not allowed to sell a professional model to you. You have to buy around £10k worth of jewellery/watches from us to be offered a professional model’

What I don’t really understand is that they don’t want people to flip watches- but they are trying to get me to buy a DJ 28/31 which I have no use for and would sell. It makes no sense to spend £10k to buy a watch that retails at £6.8k! It would be cheaper for me to go gray!
How did you first timers get your foot in the door?

This is how things goes…
Unfortunately you have right better to go grey
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Old 24 October 2021, 05:38 PM   #65
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Yes, avoid goldsmiths…i have purchase history with them (quite a lot extending back to 1998!!! - up until 2020), and recently in the last year have been expressing an interest in a couple of Rolex (both of which i wanted if the opportunity came up even as a joint purchase), said they would try and get me one of the ones i was interested in. Nothing so far. Just been offered ladies watches (I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry) and nil else. In the meantime, independent have been much better. I am clearly not a flipper and actually enjoy showing my collection to SA as its a good conversation starter. WOSG UK haven’t treated me any better than someone who has no purchase history. So my regret is ever buying anything from them..
I have purchase history going back 12 years with Goldsmiths in Leeds , I bought two Omegas and two Rolex in that time all of which I still have.
The Leeds branch doesn't stock Rolex anymore so I went to the Meadowhall branch wearing my black GMT id bought from them years ago and explained that I wanted the Rose gold bi-metal GMT.
She said due to my previous history they would be able to add me to the list although after 4 months I've still not hear anything.

Now I would consider myself a steady customer with them and the fact I still have the watches purchased from them would prove I'm not flipping.
A customer that comes back every 2-3 years to buy another watch should be respected and lets be honest until recently people like me would have been considered a good customer.
I'll wait and see if they get my what I asked for and how long it takes but it wasn't as if I walked in asking for a Daytona and feel they should be able to supply watches like that to customers like me without any issues
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Old 24 October 2021, 06:11 PM   #66
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I recently went into goldsmiths and asked to go on the list for an explorer 36.
Ended up having an ‘interview’ about my work, kids, hobbies etc, as ‘Rolex want to make sure of the types of people they sell to’
Won’t be using Goldsmiths again (even though I have history with them).
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Old 24 October 2021, 06:17 PM   #67
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Go grey, pay the going rate, same as most of us have to if you want the watch now.
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Old 24 October 2021, 06:21 PM   #68
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Well the thing is not everyone has tens of thousands lying around to spend on multiple watches that they don’t want.

Some people actually spend years saving for a watch of their dreams as a present to themselves to mark an occasion
I’m sorry to say, in the current environment, the Rolex AD’s really aren’t interested in those types of customers.

Selling a hawt Rolex to a “one and done” buyer would be considered a waste of precious resources.

They must reserve those references for those who have bought and will show a proclivity to buy more…and more and more.

The SA told you the hard truth of the current market. “Popping in and having a chat” isn’t going to get it done (especially at GS/WOS) along with the vast majority of AD’s. You’re just wasting your time (and the SA).

You may have a shot at a small independent, but Rolex is actively phasing these types of AD out, so be careful if they ask for deposits..etc.
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Old 24 October 2021, 06:28 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ajn1978 View Post
I recently went into goldsmiths and asked to go on the list for an explorer 36.
Ended up having an ‘interview’ about my work, kids, hobbies etc, as ‘Rolex want to make sure of the types of people they sell to’
Won’t be using Goldsmiths again (even though I have history with them).

Are you upset because Rolex has a particular demographic they prefer to sell to, or because you were asked in that particular manner?


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Old 24 October 2021, 06:30 PM   #70
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I went to the Meadowhall branch wearing my black GMT id bought from them years ago and explained that I wanted the Rose gold bi-metal GMT.
She said due to my previous history they would be able to add me to the list although after 4 months I've still not hear anything.
A CHNR should happen but I'd give it 1-2 years. You may get it sooner but don't hold your breath.

More generally - with a big chain it's inadvisable to brand the whole organisation because of one branch, due to the inevitable variability of staff and demographics. My local Godlsmiths are a top team of people. Always have been. They don't sell Rolex any more though.
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Old 24 October 2021, 08:33 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ajn1978 View Post
I recently went into goldsmiths and asked to go on the list for an explorer 36.
Ended up having an ‘interview’ about my work, kids, hobbies etc, as ‘Rolex want to make sure of the types of people they sell to’
Won’t be using Goldsmiths again (even though I have history with them).
Well,,
At least you got to the stage of updating your bio ,,,
That’s the “ rules of engagement “ at the moment,
Quite a few people on here that haven’t even been asked for a bio just a “ flat” sorry,, no previous spends response ,,
If transparency helps get the watches we want then so be it but admittedly it’s does seem rather ridiculous that all this is needed to just buy a watch,,,
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Old 24 October 2021, 09:36 PM   #72
ajn1978
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Are you upset because Rolex has a particular demographic they prefer to sell to, or because you were asked in that particular manner?


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Tbh it was the fact they were asking at all. It was quite personal information, that really they have no right asking about in a retail context
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Old 24 October 2021, 09:37 PM   #73
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Well,,
At least you got to the stage of updating your bio ,,,
That’s the “ rules of engagement “ at the moment,
Quite a few people on here that haven’t even been asked for a bio just a “ flat” sorry,, no previous spends response ,,
If transparency helps get the watches we want then so be it but admittedly it’s does seem rather ridiculous that all this is needed to just buy a watch,,,
Exactly.
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Old 24 October 2021, 09:54 PM   #74
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Tbh it was the fact they were asking at all. It was quite personal information, that really they have no right asking about in a retail context

I work for a prestige motor dealer and we now have to carry out checks on customers to make sure that we're satisfied that they aren't going to sell their new vehicle at a premium within 12 months of purchase. If a vehicle does turn up on the market and the manufacturer is not satisfied that we have carried out our due diligence checks thoroughly then they can impose a fine of upto £20,000 per vehicle. It's a load of b******s IMO but maybe Rolex do something similar.
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Old 24 October 2021, 10:28 PM   #75
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I work for a prestige motor dealer and we now have to carry out checks on customers to make sure that we're satisfied that they aren't going to sell their new vehicle at a premium within 12 months of purchase. If a vehicle does turn up on the market and the manufacturer is not satisfied that we have carried out our due diligence checks thoroughly then they can impose a fine of upto £20,000 per vehicle. It's a load of b******s IMO but maybe Rolex do something similar.
Agree about the b******s bit!
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Old 24 October 2021, 10:28 PM   #76
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Well,,
At least you got to the stage of updating your bio ,,,
That’s the “ rules of engagement “ at the moment,
Quite a few people on here that haven’t even been asked for a bio just a “ flat” sorry,, no previous spends response ,,
If transparency helps get the watches we want then so be it but admittedly it’s does seem rather ridiculous that all this is needed to just buy a watch,,,
I had already bought a few bit from them…so I guess I was already on their ‘list’
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Old 24 October 2021, 10:45 PM   #77
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Another aspect of this that irks me slightly is that every day in my newspaper there is a full-page Watches of Switzerland group advertisement for Rolex, often featuring a GMT Master or Daytona. The mere fact that these advertisements are constantly posted implies to the casual reader that these watches are actually available to buy. The advertising must be expensive, so I can only surmise that some marketing executive reckons its worthwhile, but why stimulate a market that is already overpopulated with buyers?

Stan.
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Old 24 October 2021, 11:05 PM   #78
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Another aspect of this that irks me slightly is that every day in my newspaper there is a full-page Watches of Switzerland group advertisement for Rolex, often featuring a GMT Master or Daytona. The mere fact that these advertisements are constantly posted implies to the casual reader that these watches are actually available to buy. The advertising must be expensive, so I can only surmise that some marketing executive reckons its worthwhile, but why stimulate a market that is already overpopulated with buyers?

Stan.

Rolex is successful because of their consistency in marketing.

Good sales, bad sales the message is the same. A Rolex watch deserves a full page advertisement, regardless of reference.

And they do not put up more subs, Daytona or GMT ads even if that is what you perceive.

It is not just ‘some marketing executive’ at work.


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Old 24 October 2021, 11:34 PM   #79
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Rolex is successful because of their consistency in marketing.

Good sales, bad sales the message is the same. A Rolex watch deserves a full page advertisement, regardless of reference.

And they do not put up more subs, Daytona or GMT ads even if that is what you perceive.

It is not just ‘some marketing executive’ at work.


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I didn't say that I perceive that they feature GMTs or Daytonas more often, but merely that they are often featured in the advertisements as part of the Rolex range. As an analogy, Bentley and Rolls-Royce motors are on very long waiting lists, like certain Rolex watches, and they probably attract a similar clientele, but you don't see them plugging aggressive daily advertising in the same way. I know it's a completely different product, but I can't think of any other luxury brand that aggressively advertises something that they can't deliver for years.

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Old 24 October 2021, 11:57 PM   #80
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But why stimulate a market that is already overpopulated with buyers?
Traffic and demand generation for WOS. They are driving customers to their stores! Watch lovers don’t just buy Rolex Daytonas.

They feature Rolex because co-op marketing programs will reimburse WOS for a portion of the media buy. So, Rolex is reinforcing brand awareness and supporting their retail partners.
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Old 25 October 2021, 12:57 AM   #81
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Traffic and demand generation for WOS. They are driving customers to their stores! Watch lovers don’t just buy Rolex Daytonas.

They feature Rolex because co-op marketing programs will reimburse WOS for a portion of the media buy. So, Rolex is reinforcing brand awareness and supporting their retail partners.
That's a credible explanation - now I get it! Thanks.

Stan.
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Old 25 October 2021, 03:03 AM   #82
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I work for a prestige motor dealer and we now have to carry out checks on customers to make sure that we're satisfied that they aren't going to sell their new vehicle at a premium within 12 months of purchase. If a vehicle does turn up on the market and the manufacturer is not satisfied that we have carried out our due diligence checks thoroughly then they can impose a fine of upto £20,000 per vehicle. It's a load of b******s IMO but maybe Rolex do something similar.
Which brand/dealership is that? PM if you prefer…
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Old 25 October 2021, 07:59 AM   #83
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Tbh it was the fact they were asking at all. It was quite personal information, that really they have no right asking about in a retail context
Maybe a grey dealer is a better option, they won’t ask questions but you’ll pay for the privilege
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Old 25 October 2021, 09:08 AM   #84
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AThe advertising must be expensive, so I can only surmise that some marketing executive reckons its worthwhile, but why stimulate a market that is already overpopulated with buyers?

Stan.
Possibly because a marketing executive reckons its worthwhile? Or more likely a director of marketing.

Companies who are good at marketing don't throw stuff to see what sticks. They know cost/benefit ratios, return on investment numbers and have a scientific approach to the whole area. Rolex is a company which is good at marketing. They are one of those companies who are so good at it, there is a danger of onlookers thinking it is easy.
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Old 25 October 2021, 10:16 AM   #85
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If you go the AD route - DJ41 is the one to go for if you wanna build your purchase history, you may still have to wait for this but you probably would lose hardly anything when you sell it

If you go down the gray dealer route - I'd just monitor the prices as there are many models that are going up & up. There are some models which are overpriced as to what they may be worth in a few months time but chances are if you buy the watch you want, keep it in good condition you may make a profit if you do sell it in a few years. And obviously avoid the game that the AD is playing
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Old 25 October 2021, 10:12 PM   #86
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Tbh it was the fact they were asking at all. It was quite personal information, that really they have no right asking about in a retail context
They are playing fast and loose with the UK data protection rules - there is no real reason why that information is required, and you are perfectly within your rights to refuse to give it (although they are transparent about how they use it, it's in their privacy notice). I wouldn't fancy your chances of getting on the list for anything after that though.

I'm on the list at Goldsmiths and an independent AD at the moment. Goldsmiths were pretty dismissive TBH, and I have bought a Speedy from the independent so more chance there I think, although I was fairly hard on the price with them.
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Old 25 October 2021, 10:22 PM   #87
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They are playing fast and loose with the UK data protection rules
Not really. Only if they fail to keep it secure, sell it or give it to someone else. Everything else is within the law. Nobody is obliged to answer questions that they feel are obtrusive, inappropriate, etc. It is not against data protection law to ask, nor is it in support of any data protection law to refuse to answer them.

There is a difference between being offended and being on the receiving end of an illegal practice. Sometimes they coincide. Not this time.
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Old 25 October 2021, 10:48 PM   #88
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Not really. Only if they fail to keep it secure, sell it or give it to someone else. Everything else is within the law. Nobody is obliged to answer questions that they feel are obtrusive, inappropriate, etc. It is not against data protection law to ask, nor is it in support of any data protection law to refuse to answer them.

There is a difference between being offended and being on the receiving end of an illegal practice. Sometimes they coincide. Not this time.

I agree that people don't have to give their information, I said so above. Goldsmiths etc are using legitimate interests as their reason for processing the data, not consent. That requires a balancing test of the rights of the data subject against the rights of the company. They also need to make sure that their use of data is adequate, relevant and limited to only what is necessary.

I'm not at all sure, if pushed, they could satisfy the above, especially if, as said above, they are asking for details of people's families. At best they are pushing the limits. Notice I never said they were directly in breach though.
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Old 25 October 2021, 10:52 PM   #89
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The daft thing is despite this selection process I would say that the recent sales of Rolex to greys has accelerated considerably here in th UK. I quickly counted 19 unworn Sept/Oct 2021 LV Subs for sale today with little effort.
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Old 26 October 2021, 12:22 AM   #90
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Notice I never said they were directly in breach though.
No you didn't. Point taken.

They are being bloody cheeky and I wouldn't put up with that kind of interrogation. It kind of tracks the noise coming from the opposite direction if you think about it. How so? Well, I'll try to explain it as I see it:

Post after post on here along the lines of "how do I build a relationship?" A silly question, since these things evolve naturally and are unique to each of us. But the YouTwitFacesphere want's everything now and believes everything is transactional. Is this how people now form relationships with other people? You fall in love when you get a peer approved value of something in return?

Now Goldsmiths, or perhaps certain branches of Goldsmits are mining in the opposite direction. Never mind about gradually getting to know a repeat visitor, their likes and dislikes, their family, their job, their income, their significant anniversaries. Just tell me everything about you now. Infantile. The online community needs to be more like the real world. The opposite is happening.
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