Buying a used PP without box or papers?

[MathewC]

Hello all,

I have an opportunity to buy a 5712 1a without box or papers. Any advice on the following things:

How much should this effect the price?
Can I check with Patek about the serial number?
Will any boutique or service center be able to verify it's authenticity?

Thanks!
-Mathew

[Liger187]

You can get the archive papers from Patek after the watch is 5 years old.
The discount should be significant. I would not buy it unless you don't plan to sell it later and get a big discount compared to the price of a complete set.

[MathewC]

Is there any way to determine how old the watch is? I don't want to pay Patek ~$100 just to find out the watch isn't old enough to get archive papers. Once you've paid for the archive info, how long is the turn around?

Thanks again,
-Mathew

[slashd0t]

Who doesn't keep the papers on a 5712? I would somehow get the serial checked out in advanced if you don't know/trust the seller.

[rolex_addict]

Originally Posted by slashd0t

Who doesn't keep the papers on a 5712? I would somehow get the serial checked out in advanced if you don't know/trust the seller.

excellent point! i hope its not a stolen piece

[PatekCollector]

You can get the box easily from ebay. getting archive papers is not a big issue too.

Just make sure the watch is authentic and the price is attractive. Good luck.

Btw, selling the watch (in future) with archive papers is a bit difficult unless you reduce the price.

[Passionata]

Check the movement if you find Geneva Seal instead of PP seal it could help determine the age.What s the price ?i wouldn t buy it except they have a price you can t refuse.

[Racerdj]

This would be a deal breaker for me. I would rather not have any secondary thoughts about the history of it in the future. If you can live with the current situation, the price difference should be significant.

[polarinda]

At least 40% off retail.

[Hamish]

I would pass

[THC]

Run Forest Run

[GoingPlaces]

No box and no paper means no deal for me.

[Locke88]

Given that 5712's aren't particularly rare, I'd pass. Resale (if you wanna sell in future) will be tough and you'd spend all your time wondering if the watch was stolen.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Racerdj

This would be a deal breaker for me. I would rather not have any secondary thoughts about the history of it in the future. If you can live with the current situation, the price difference should be significant.

Agree, altho this is not easily faked tho it could be stolen, I think a Patek should be bought with box and papers and the whole shebang.

[theflywrist]

No box or papers on a vintage Rolex for example I can accept.
No box and papers on a modern 5712 I really cannot accept. That is just me though.

[1William]

No box, No Papers on a PP would mean no deal for me.

[Abdullasaif]

Originally Posted by PatekCollector

You can get the box easily from ebay. getting archive papers is not a big issue too.

Just make sure the watch is authentic and the price is attractive. Good luck.

Btw, selling the watch (in future) with archive papers is a bit difficult unless you reduce the price.

this

[MathewC]

Visiting an AD is a condition of the sale. One would hope that PP would have instant access to a database to check and see if a watch was reported stolen. Anyone know? I've read conflicting reports on this.

Anyway, if I decide the watch is not for me, I don't mind taking a hit on it, but...

Originally Posted by polarinda

At least 40% off retail.

is already quite a hit.

I'm kindof floored/impressed. Does no-one in the PP community ever misplace a box? I've been looking at private sales on the forums and I can't find a single example of a 5712/1a for sale without papers as a reference.

This would be my first PP and as such I don't really belong in this forum, so I'd like your honest opinion about what you think an acceptable price for a non-stolen but missing papers 5712/1a should be.

Thanks again gents.

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by MathewC

Visiting an AD is a condition of the sale. One would hope that PP would have instant access to a database to check and see if a watch was reported stolen. Anyone know? I've read conflicting reports on this.

Anyway, if I decide the watch is not for me, I don't mind taking a hit on it, but...



is already quite a hit.

I'm kindof floored/impressed. Does no-one in the PP community ever misplace a box? I've been looking at private sales on the forums and I can't find a single example of a 5712/1a for sale without papers as a reference.

This would be my first PP and as such I don't really belong in this forum, so I'd like your honest opinion about what you think an acceptable price for a non-stolen but missing papers 5712/1a should be.

Thanks again gents.

if you take care to give 30 grand for an SS watch you will taking care the paperwork too

[clintfca]

As others have mentioned, this is a modern Patek model and misplacing box and papers for such a relatively expensive watch raises flags.


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[AK797]

Originally Posted by MathewC

Visiting an AD is a condition of the sale. One would hope that PP would have instant access to a database to check and see if a watch was reported stolen. Anyone know? I've read conflicting reports on this.

Anyway, if I decide the watch is not for me, I don't mind taking a hit on it, but...



is already quite a hit.

I'm kindof floored/impressed. Does no-one in the PP community ever misplace a box? I've been looking at private sales on the forums and I can't find a single example of a 5712/1a for sale without papers as a reference.

This would be my first PP and as such I don't really belong in this forum, so I'd like your honest opinion about what you think an acceptable price for a non-stolen but missing papers 5712/1a should be.

Thanks again gents.

Well most of us are watch enthusiasts so we would keep the box and papers, as would most non watchmen if they knew the value of the watch unless they are of the careless super rich or it is stolen.

As to price, fair would be £14-5K if in great condition.

[Tony64]

Verifying authenticity should be easy. As others have said be more worried about it being stolen.

[MathewC]

Seller inherited the watch (so he says) and had no issues sending me pictures specifically of the serial number so I could check on it. So that means... Something I guess ;-)

[TheBluePrince]

If you can prove it isn't stolen and it's a good price then go for it. How often do you look at or do anything with box and papers? Never, they just just take up space in a cupboard somewhere.

[Solicitor]

If it's less 50% from SRP that'll be fine for me otherwise its a deal breaker. 5712s in the secondary market is not uncommon and if I'm buying used I'll get one complete simply because they're plenty in the market.

[mrhelios]

Originally Posted by AK797

Well most of us are watch enthusiasts so we would keep the box and papers, as would most non watchmen if they knew the value of the watch unless they are of the careless super rich or it is stolen.

As to price, fair would be £14-5K if in great condition.

Does everyone else in this thread agree with this valuation?
Looking at a 5712 in the exact same situation and am wondering what I should pay.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by mrhelios

Does everyone else in this thread agree with this valuation?
Looking at a 5712 in the exact same situation and am wondering what I should pay.

Price with box papers is £17K+ so without is a couple of grand less.

[bayerische]

I have no problem buying a Rolex without papers, but an AP or Patek? Not anymore! I've done it twice and never again. If you decide to sell it, You'll be at a disadvantage too great IMHO. It gets tiring at somepoint... Is too much weight placed on the papers/boxes? Probably, but that's just the way it is.

[mrhelios]

Originally Posted by bayerische

I have no problem buying a Rolex without papers, but an AP or Patek? Not anymore! I've done it twice and never again. If you decide to sell it, You'll be at a disadvantage too great IMHO. It gets tiring at somepoint... Is too much weight placed on the papers/boxes? Probably, but that's just the way it is.

good to know, thank you.
I'd be interested in flipping it so the hassle doesn't seem worth it.

[topcat30093]

Originally Posted by GoingPlaces

No box and no paper means no deal for me.

Goes for me