Hodinkee 1016

[Juhuatai]

Folks, look at this:

https://shop.hodinkee.com/products/e...39698652758091

Sold for 39,500

Hands are service no? They claim the case is unpolished, what do you guys think?

They really can get some incredible prices...

[newkidonblock4]

lots of 1966s have curved hands, but yeah that price is kinda crazy

[swish77]

I'm not an Explorer guy, but those hands look short to me. Don't the seconds and minute hands usually reach into the minute markers?

Here's another 1966 Explorer on the left, with the Hodinkee example on the right. Length of hands is definitely different. If I were the potential buyer, that's my first question about this watch. That's a ton of money for an Explorer. You'd want to make sure it was all original and correct.

[newkidonblock4]

Originally Posted by swish77

I'm not an Explorer guy, but those hands look short to me. Don't the seconds and minute hands usually reach into the minute markers?

I think so too

[MrChamfers]

Tropical watch has one for about half that Why the premium on the hodinkee one?

[Tom1675]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

Tropical watch has one for about half that Why the premium on the hodinkee one?

Their whole site is overpriced. They're putting a sizeable premium on the goodwill and knowledge they've built up with all of their articles/interviews etc...

Also they market to a buyer/client that gets a warm fuzzy buying from them, a "trusted, knowlegable, seller." This person likely doesn't share the passion, which leads to the love of the hunt, that we do here...

Personally, I don't mind their videos and articles but would never buy from them.

[Juhuatai]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

Their whole site is overpriced. They're putting a sizeable premium on the goodwill and knowledge they've built up with all of their articles/interviews etc...

Also they market to a buyer/client that gets a warm fuzzy buying from them, a "trusted, knowlegable, seller." This person likely doesn't share the passion, which leads to the love of the hunt, that we do here...

Personally, I don't mind their videos and articles but would never buy from them.

I totally agree but the number shocked me. You could easily do better from a well known dealer.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

Tropical watch has one for about half that Why the premium on the hodinkee one?

My favorite is when someone tries to sell the watch they bought from Hodinkee, and they ask the same price they bought it for using the justification that they bought it from Hodinkee. They will even link the old Hodinkee listing.

[1watch]

Hands are not original. Should reach the minute hash and lume is different tone.


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[Kingface66]

Someone want to tell them the hands are wrong? (Second pic is from a 1966 Rolex catalogue)







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[springer]

But...but..the hands look brand new.

Move along kid...move along... and button it up...

[Tom1675]

Originally Posted by springer

But...but..the hands look brand new.

Move along kid...move along... and button it up...

That's an upgrade! You want the hands to glow, the dial doesn't need to!

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

That's an upgrade! You want the hands to glow, the dial doesn't need to!

You jest, but if Hodinkee sold that concept, you'd be shocked at all the sheep who would buy into it, and suddenly there would be a premium on all the watches with service hands. I'm waiting for the day that they try to market the idea of collecting redialed watches.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by Dan S

You jest, but if Hodinkee sold that concept, you'd be shocked at all the sheep who would buy into it, and suddenly there would be a premium on all the watches with service hands. I'm waiting for the day that they try to market the idea of collecting redialed watches.

I don’t think that day will come.


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[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by 1watch

I don’t think that day will come.


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Eventually all cherished vintage watches will have their lume disintegrate, so relumed will be the norm. That isn't the same as "redialed" but most collectors today think relumed dials have no value. They will change their tune on that I guess.

[Lol-x]

I hope the purchaser is happy and wish him/her all the best.
That is a lot of green for a 1016...
I like the look of the watch, irrespective of the hands, the main thing is the buyer likes the watch.
Price is irrelevant, if you like it, pay for it, its your business and no one elses.

[Toronto Soup King]

Another member here knows how much I thought worth spending on getting correct hands for my 1016, I can hardly believe Hodinkee got 40K for a Sub-handed example and I bet dollars to donuts the buyer will eventually source and install the proper hands himself. At some cost.

On the bright side if the buyer does what I did and has his Sub hands put on an old 1018 he'll have a handy watch to wear when he wants to wear vintage but not risk big money!

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

Eventually all cherished vintage watches will have their lume disintegrate

True. Sometimes the whole vintage thing feels like a game of musical chairs or similar - you lose if you're left owning the watch when the lume crumbles.

It's happened to me more than once on vintage pieces...

Might just get a modern DateJust and call it a day.

[1665fan]

There’s a sucker born everyday……whoever bought it will try to sell in a month or a year, probably only see half that……..played by hodinkee lol

[swish77]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

Eventually all cherished vintage watches will have their lume disintegrate, so relumed will be the norm. That isn't the same as "redialed" but most collectors today think relumed dials have no value. They will change their tune on that I guess.

Not sure I totally agree with this, unless you're talking about many, many decades in the future. Sure, everything will eventually break or disintegrate or fall apart, or whatever, even modern Rolexes.

If a vintage piece has been and is well taken care of, serviced properly with seals, and babied a bit, there's no reason that the lume definitely will crumble in the foreseeable future. Maybe yes, but maybe not. There are plenty of 60-70-year-old watches that still have fully intact lume.

I've actually never had any lume crumble or fall from a dial/hands in 30 years of collecting, except one, and it was the tritium on the minute hand of a late '80s DJ. Seemed totally random.

[Kingface66]

It’s interesting that they’re up front about the hands being color corrected at some point in its past, but are sticking to their guns that the hands themselves are correct. Albeit, without actually and technically confirming it “ The hands on this example are what collectors have dubbed short and curved. We've seen multiple examples from this era with these hands.”

At best they leave it open that they might not be original, and at worst, are purposely misleading.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by swish77

Not sure I totally agree with this, unless you're talking about many, many decades in the future. Sure, everything will eventually break or disintegrate or fall apart, or whatever, even modern Rolexes.

If a vintage piece has been and is well taken care of, serviced properly with seals, and babied a bit, there's no reason that the lume definitely will crumble in the foreseeable future. Maybe yes, but maybe not. There are plenty of 60-70-year-old watches that still have fully intact lume.

I've actually never had any lume crumble or fall from a dial/hands in 30 years of collecting, except one, and it was the tritium on the minute hand of a late '80s DJ. Seemed totally random.

It seems to me that many watches over 50 years old already have been relumed or have signs of damaged lume. Aside from the rare ones that have been babied for decades I don't see why the rest of them will be immune to this. Over the next few years and of course beyond, as they are worn regularly.
There will always be museum pieces I suppose.

[Juhuatai]

I think we can agree the hands are service, I was actually more curious as to people's thoughts as to whether the case was unpolished or not. IMO, the case is not unpolished.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Dan S

My favorite is when someone tries to sell the watch they bought from Hodinkee, and they ask the same price they bought it for using the justification that they bought it from Hodinkee. They will even link the old Hodinkee listing.

I don't see the issue?

All watches are going up in price every x weeks. So he/she should ask less? Or is it because you think Hodinkee is overpriced?

[TuRo]

If you are the type who likes the publicity and warm fuzzy glow of canapes and champagne of buying from Philips, Bonham's or one of a dozen hyper-inflated priced places.....you certainly get brought down to earth pretty quickly when you try to sell it on in 12-15 months and realise you are still 40% over what it's worth - this watch will take 3 years to 'wipe it's face' to use a UK expression. There are so many chumps out there it beggers belief !!

[swish77]

Hodinkee needs to be called out on their BS. From the listing:

"The hands on this example are what collectors have dubbed short and curved. We've seen multiple examples from this era with these hands."

Really? I was curious, so I spent 10 minutes combing through archives of some top dealers, along with scouring photos online. I couldn't find another 1016 example with hands like the one in the listing. Are they out there? Perhaps. But the listing makes it sounds as if it's fairly common, instead of the more likely explanation: The hands were replaced.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

It seems to me that many watches over 50 years old already have been relumed or have signs of damaged lume. Aside from the rare ones that have been babied for decades I don't see why the rest of them will be immune to this. Over the next few years and of course beyond, as they are worn regularly.
There will always be museum pieces I suppose.

Gilt dials are definitely more apt to show signs of obvious damage compared to matte. The texture and lack of gloss on a matte dial is better able to hide minimal marks under close scrutiny by comparison. This is one of the reasons gilt watches have such a wide range in values, since great, well preserved gilt are difficult to find. The dials with damaged lume plots are usually the victims of mishandling during a service or from moisture entering the case. I don't see why the plots would disintegrate absent mishandling or an unfortunate jolt to the case, such as a watch dropping on the floor. Lume on hands is more fragile, given it's just suspended between metal hand borders. The case on the OP example does exhibit signs of being possibly unpolished.

[uhren917]

Here is seemingly another example of a Rolex 1016 with original seconds and minute hand that matches the hands on the Hodinkee listing.

[Tom1675]

Originally Posted by uhren917

Here is seemingly another example of a Rolex 1016 with original seconds and minute hand that matches the hands on the Hodinkee listing.

Do you know this one to be original? Is it yours? Those hands appear replaced imho...

[uhren917]

Originally Posted by Tom1675

Do you know this one to be original? Is it yours? Those hands appear replaced imho...

The watch is listed on Ebay. It states that it was serviced in 1982 by RSC. It is seemingly as original if RSC themselves would have altered the configuration w/shorter hands for the watch if they were serviced/replaced it at all.

This watch seems to call into question the claim that the Hodinkee watch hands are not original or these hands were not seen on another watch.