An unbelievable story

[Bocktagon]

Since I have been a member here, I have done a lot of reading and learned a lot. Not just about Rolex in general, but other brands as well.

Unfortunately earlier this year before I joined the forum, I seem to have purchased a fake Breitling Navitimer 01. At the time, I thought I took the proper percautions by having the watch verified by an AD in Beverly Hills that amazingly enough serviced the watch and actually has a warranty on it. I was guaranteed by the certified watchmaker at the AD that it was 100% authentic and I had nothing to worry about because he serviced the watch himself. It wasn't until I put the watch up for sale on eBay that I was notified by a member that it wasn't authentic. I didn't believe it at first and I was directed to the Breitling source forum for further discussion. Even at that point I didn't believe them.

I then took the watch to the AD and had the watchmaker reverify the watch again. He opened the case and confirmed that it was the watch that he completed serviced less than a couple of months ago. I then mentioned the things that people on the forum had mentioned and he suggested that I send the watch to Breitling USA to have it verified. Once the watch returned to the store, Breitling said it was indeed a fake.

I then contacted Breitling and the owner of the AD and expressed my concerns on the mistakes they made. Breitling, nor the owner of the AD want to do anything for me. The AD says that the watchmaker just simply made a mistake and didn't realize be serviced a replica. That I still don't understand at all. I wrote an email to Breitling Switzerland with no response and Breitling USA says that AD's operate independently and there is nothing they can do. They weren't even willing to contact the AD to find out what happened.

I have no idea what to do at this point really.

Here is the thread of the full story if you're interested in reading it.

http://breitlingsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=58813

[lavaman]

Msg me privately if you like. I am a licensed attorney in TX but I may have a few ideas for you. ( no charge of course :-)

[PJ S]

Two things spring to mind, aside from being sorry to hear you’ve been duped in the first place.
1) It is not illegal to own a fake/replica watch, only if selling is it illegal.
2) Breitling (and every other manufacturer) has NO powers of confiscation, never mind to destroy a person’s private property.
Let DreamWatcher and the other ignorant (as in unknowledgeable) members know that, and to stop spouting hysterical nonsense!

At this point, you’re chasing your tail, as no-one wants to admit anything and are covering their arses.
Get on to each party’s FB/Twitter account and make some noise – more so the AD’s since they’re the one who happily charged you the service cost of a genuine watch and validated its authenticity (hopefully in writing). If they didn’t, then you’re going to need to record the conversation where they admit to the watchmaker making a mistake.
Either way, it does not absolve them of having done so, and therefore assuring you that the purchase was safe to proceed with – you did what anyone would as far as reasonable due diligence is concerned.
So, you need to now seriously consider legal action, and if the cost/time/hassle is worth what you might only get back – servicing cost rather than it and the cost of the watch purchase.
You really need to be able to prove negligence on their part, which caused you to go ahead with purchasing the watch.

Of course, if you write the whole thing off as a bitter life lesson, then no-one will blame you for blacklisting Breitling products from future considerations.

You might want to speak with/write to Theirry Prissert (CEO BUSA) and/or Jean-Paul Girardin (CEO BSwitzerland) and express your disgust at a supposed certified watchmaker not knowing his arse from his elbow!

[The Joker]

I have read the other thread, but not sure I got all the details.

Unfortunately there are incompetent people everywhere, and it seems the watchmaker who serviced it is one of them. But where did you get this watch? Did you pay the going/market price (several thousand)? Or a too-good-to-be true price?

Not an expert myself, but don't all Breitling B01 have an in-house movement with clear case back? Why didn't you do more research before buying it-checking out loads of pics on the internet. Asking questions on Breitling source before buying?

I don't know why you are going after Breitling or even the AD. You made the mistake buying it in the first place. The only thing I'd want back is maybe the price you paid for the service, was it $600??

[Bocktagon]

Originally Posted by The Joker

I have read the other thread, but not sure I got all the details.

Unfortunately there are incompetent people everywhere, and it seems the watchmaker who serviced it is one of them. But where did you get this watch? Did you pay the going/market price (several thousand)? Or a too-good-to-be true price?

Not an expert myself, but don't all Breitling B01 have an in-house movement with clear case back? Why didn't you do more research before buying it-checking out loads of pics on the internet. Asking questions on Breitling source before buying?

I don't know why you are going after Breitling or even the AD. You made the mistake buying it in the first place. The only thing I'd want back is maybe the price you paid for the service, was it $600??

Thank you very much for the response to my post. I did do an extensive amount of research before I bought the watch. And no the Navitimer 01 does not have a clear case back as seen on the Breitling website. At the time, I figured that taking it to an AD with a certified watchmaker was the best way to ensure that the watch was authentic especially considering they serviced it. I purchased the watch from the individual that had it serviced there and I paid market value, over 4K for the watch.

[Bocktagon]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Two things spring to mind, aside from being sorry to hear you’ve been duped in the first place.
1) It is not illegal to own a fake/replica watch, only if selling is it illegal.
2) Breitling (and every other manufacturer) has NO powers of confiscation, never mind to destroy a person’s private property.
Let DreamWatcher and the other ignorant (as in unknowledgeable) members know that, and to stop spouting hysterical nonsense!

At this point, you’re chasing your tail, as no-one wants to admit anything and are covering their arses.
Get on to each party’s FB/Twitter account and make some noise – more so the AD’s since they’re the one who happily charged you the service cost of a genuine watch and validated its authenticity (hopefully in writing). If they didn’t, then you’re going to need to record the conversation where they admit to the watchmaker making a mistake.
Either way, it does not absolve them of having done so, and therefore assuring you that the purchase was safe to proceed with – you did what anyone would as far as reasonable due diligence is concerned.
So, you need to now seriously consider legal action, and if the cost/time/hassle is worth what you might only get back – servicing cost rather than it and the cost of the watch purchase.
You really need to be able to prove negligence on their part, which caused you to go ahead with purchasing the watch.

Of course, if you write the whole thing off as a bitter life lesson, then no-one will blame you for blacklisting Breitling products from future considerations.

You might want to speak with/write to Theirry Prissert (CEO BUSA) and/or Jean-Paul Girardin (CEO BSwitzerland) and express your disgust at a supposed certified watchmaker not knowing his arse from his elbow!

This is all great advice PJ, thank you very much. I don't have Facebook nor Twitter but I suppose I will have to get them especially in this case. I think you're right about legal action being the only real option at this point unfortunately.

I don't really want to shun any great watch company, however I am extremely disappointed in their lack of concern for this situation.

As far as I know, there isn't any contact information for the ceo so the only way to get in touch with him is by a hand written letter addressed to him I would imagine right?

I can't just take this as a loss. It's just inane to think that a certified watchmaker has no responsibility to know if he is working on a replica watch. It just doesn't seem possible to me under any circumstances. Do things like this happen often in the watch industry?

[AK797]

I would be tempted to stand outside their stores with a sign saying they can't tell fakes from real watches, pure amateurs.

[VICI]

No reason why you can't write a review of the business on public sites.

Truth is that they are not good at their business and cannot be trusted.

Sorry that your are going through this.

[Bocktagon]

Originally Posted by VICI

No reason why you can't write a review of the business on public sites.

Truth is that they are not good at their business and cannot be trusted.

Sorry that your are going through this.

Thank you very much for the kind words. Believe me I hate it terribly. To date, this is the first problem I've had in the watchworld and hopefully the last. I will do the reviews eventually, I am just debating if a good time would be before or after everything is settled one way or the other.

[sco]

Sorry this happened, There is a lot to be said for "buying the seller"

[Highland Ranger]

Originally Posted by Bocktagon

I purchased the watch from the individual that had it serviced there and I paid market value, over 4K for the watch.

Possible the watchmaker and seller in cahoots?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[GolfPunk]

Really sorry for you

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Bocktagon

I was guaranteed by the certified watchmaker at the AD that it was 100% authentic and I had nothing to worry about because he serviced the watch himself.

Out of curiosity, what did the watchmaker give you as a guarantee? Did they guarantee to serivice it for a specific duration in time? Did they guarantee that the watch was authentic? Did you get any of this in writing?

My guess is that the watchmaker simply guaranteed the service of the watch and thus is only liable for just that. You have a contractual right to bring it to him for service for a specified duration in time but nothing more... I'm very sorry to hear of this situation but I don't think that the AD nor the watchmaker have anything to do with you receiving your money back. Had they sold you the watch... that would be a totally different story.

[Lordofrolex]

i would put the blame on the watchmaker that serviced it.

They should not do authenticity services if they don't know what they are doing.

[Jamsie]

Bocktagon I read the whole story earlier as I just received my first Breitling this weekend. I really feel bad about what happened, I too had looked at Breitling watches on eBay and elsewhere, and a friend of mine who was a Breitling aficionado had pointed out that almost everyone I looked at was fake. Lesson here I would have to say, is do not buy a Tag Heuer and on up the luxury scale unless it came new from an AD or in my case went to Breitling for a clean up before I purchased it. This is a case were 'fakes matter' where they do hurt people.

[Wahlberg]

Where or who did you buy it from?

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by Lordofrolex

i would put the blame on the watchmaker that serviced it.

They should not do authenticity services if they don't know what they are doing.

Please don't get me wrong... I feel for the OP and I absolutely abhor that the watch maker was not competent enough to discover that the watch was a fake.

However, does this make him legally liable to pay the OP back the funds that he is out because the watch ended up being a fake? Absolutely not, unless the watchmaker provided a guarantee in writing that in the event he is wrong he will pay for the full cost of the watch. Clearly, he did not, nor would any watchmaker, competent, or not.

The same goes for appraisals. If I brought a watch in for an appraisal at a jewelry store, the appraiser would give me a value and state that it is his expert opinion that the watch is worth XXX dollars. However, if you read the fine print of almost any appraisal you will see language like:

“In making this appraisal we do not agree to purchase or replace the articles. The foregoing appraisal is made with the understanding that the appraiser assumes no liability with respect to any action that may be taken on the basis of the appraisal.”

I believe the OP would be entitled for whatever cost he is out for his authentication, because that part of the service was not properly provided. If watchmakers were held to the standard of being legally bound to pay for a fake watch, that they authenticated wrong, I think it would be hard to expect any watchmaker or AD to provide this service and it would be 100% up to the manufacturer to provide authentication of watches.
I think truly the only person responsible here is the seller. If you sold the watch… you are responsible for its authenticity!

[Highland Ranger]

Maybe the lesson is authenticate with the manufacturer. Or perhaps that the discount buying grey can be expensive.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[AK797]

Originally Posted by jrs146

Please don't get me wrong... I feel for the OP and I absolutely abhor that the watch maker was not competent enough to discover that the watch was a fake.

However, does this make him legally liable to pay the OP back the funds that he is out because the watch ended up being a fake? Absolutely not, unless the watchmaker provided a guarantee in writing that in the event he is wrong he will pay for the full cost of the watch. Clearly, he did not, nor would any watchmaker, competent, or not.

The same goes for appraisals. If I brought a watch in for an appraisal at a jewelry store, the appraiser would give me a value and state that it is his expert opinion that the watch is worth XXX dollars. However, if you read the fine print of almost any appraisal you will see language like:

“In making this appraisal we do not agree to purchase or replace the articles. The foregoing appraisal is made with the understanding that the appraiser assumes no liability with respect to any action that may be taken on the basis of the appraisal.”

I believe the OP would be entitled for whatever cost he is out for his authentication, because that part of the service was not properly provided. If watchmakers were held to the standard of being legally bound to pay for a fake watch, that they authenticated wrong, I think it would be hard to expect any watchmaker or AD to provide this service and it would be 100% up to the manufacturer to provide authentication of watches.
I think truly the only person responsible here is the seller. If you sold the watch… you are responsible for its authenticity!

Yes the watchmaker should refund authentication costs, but not the sum paid for the watch, that has to be done from the seller.

[rtalwar]

I may be wrong but when I took my watch to the AD in my town they refused to touch it (I needed to get the bezel tightened) and told me they do not repair or service Breitling watches and everything has to go back to the Breitling service centers.
The watchmaker and AD I don't think are allowed to service the watch in house. As I said I may be wrong but in my town they won't.
I would def try to contact the AD owner and or the Breitling rep in charge of your area. Good luck and keep us posted

[Saoirse32]

Very sorry this happened. Just curious, did the watch come with box and papers?

[56scooter]

What has the original seller of the watch have to say about this episode? My beef would be with him if he sold it as authentic!

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by sco

Sorry this happened, There is a lot to be said for "buying the seller"

?!
the OP went to the AD for verification it s the most a single person can do .

[sco]

Originally Posted by Passionata

?!
the OP went to the AD for verification it s the most a single person can do .

Yes, you are right that should be enough. It is an unfortunate and strange circumstance.

Where did OP get this watch from initially?

[Bocktagon]

Originally Posted by Passionata

?!

the OP went to the AD for verification it s the most a single person can do .

Thank you very much for saying that. It' confusing to me how others could see it any other way really. If I bought a BMW and wanted to have it inspected/verified I would take it to a BMW dealership. Especially if said dealership's certified technician completely rebuild the engine. If they said it was authentic and all parts are original I would go with that. If at a later date I find out that the car is not an authentic BMW and the engine was not authentic, how would they not be responsible for the damages I suffered through their expert opinion. Is it okay for them to just say sorry we made a mistake and it happens, no big deal?

[Bocktagon]

Originally Posted by sco

Yes, you are right that should be enough. It is an unfortunate and strange circumstance.

Where did OP get this watch from initially?

I purchased the watch from the gentle a that had it serviced at the AD about two weeks before I bought it from him. That's why I got it was a safe bet. He obviously thought it was authentic considering he paid 600+ to have it serviced. If it hadn't been taken apart by an authorized watchmaker just weeks before, I would have never purchased it. At the time, I figured there would be no way a watchmaker could completely disassemble it without realizing it isn't authentic.

[incontrol]

Just my opinion, but it seems to me the watchmaker and the person you bought the watch from are in this together. It really seems like a scam to me.

[Passionata]

Originally Posted by Bocktagon

I suffered through their expert opinion. Is it okay for them to just say sorry we made a mistake and it happens, no big deal?

Legally maybe yes-lawyers must be involved-morally surely not.

I know a big vintage dealer in Europe brought a Rolex watch to an AD they ve serviced charged high $ and years later the watch was verified as fake.

[sco]

Originally Posted by Bocktagon

I purchased the watch from the gentle a that had it serviced at the AD about two weeks before I bought it from him. That's why I got it was a safe bet. He obviously thought it was authentic considering he paid 600+ to have it serviced. If it hadn't been taken apart by an authorized watchmaker just weeks before, I would have never purchased it. At the time, I figured there would be no way a watchmaker could completely disassemble it without realizing it isn't authentic.

Sorry to hear all this, I read through the thread on Breitling Source as well. I find this whole thing totally crazy and don't understand how their "watchmaker" didn't realize it wasn't the in house B01 movement

How long have you owned the watch? It seems like the seller should be giving you a refund and dealing with the mess at the AD himself.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Bocktagon

I purchased the watch from the gentle a that had it serviced at the AD about two weeks before I bought it from him. That's why I got it was a safe bet. He obviously thought it was authentic considering he paid 600+ to have it serviced. If it hadn't been taken apart by an authorized watchmaker just weeks before, I would have never purchased it. At the time, I figured there would be no way a watchmaker could completely disassemble it without realizing it isn't authentic.

i think the guy who sold it to you scammed you. contact him and get your money back.