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Old 17 January 2019, 12:45 PM   #31
andromeda160
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FP Journe has brilliant movements and design and is still competitively priced amongst mass produced watches by Patek,VC,Rolex and AP. People lined up and are buying platinum Daytona’s and justify it because no one ever thought it would happen. Consumers drive the market and if someone wants something from a certain brand to fit their niche thinking on what would be the ultimate watch from the maker, the bigger companies can price how they want. They’re not selling watches to the masses. Your average joe might be able to get into a SS Rolex, which to me are astronomically priced to begin with, then add a bit of gold or some diamonds from the factory and boom, you’re talking $20k+. I’m a millennial watch collector, and am into horology more than most anyone I know, and when everyone decides to dump these watches, or when they pass and their kids inherit them, whose going to be there to buy them. This isn’t the 50s and 60s where production for Rolex was low, there’s a million of them entering the market annually. Breitlings hold their value as well as a BMW, VC isn’t even discussed by most, APs are hideous in their own right and I find them to be just as much a fashion statement as Hublot. RMs I have never been able to comprehend. There is hardly any value for the $$$ in todays market. It’s unsustainable the way things have been going. When I was 18, vintage sports models were within reach for me financially, with prices now, I’d rather put a down payment on a house. They can’t go up in price forever and the market is due for a correction. Even with rare vintages, beat up 6542s without original inserts are fetching near $40,000, who the hell is going to buy these crappy looking watches in 20 years. When I got into watches I liked vintage because of the process to make the watch, it’s much more admirable thinking someone designed the movements without aid of a computer, machined the parts manually, and hand assembled a mathematical masterpiece. With CNC machining and Cad drafting, it’s hardly a mechanical feat. But we shall see, I think the watch market is going to create its own demise once people realize how many of them are actually out there and spending $20-30k on something that’s hardly special doesn’t differentiate themselves from the millions of others who have done the same.
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Old 17 January 2019, 12:59 PM   #32
Starwalker
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Originally Posted by andromeda160 View Post
FP Journe has brilliant movements and design and is still competitively prices amongst mass produced watches by Patek,VC,Rolex and AP. People lined up and are buying platinum Daytona’s and justify it because no one ever thought it would happen. Consumers drive the market and if someone wants something from a certain brand to fit their niche thinking on what would be the ultimate watch from the maker, the bigger companies can price how they want. They’re not selling watches to the masses. Your average joe might be able to get into a SS Rolex, which to me are astronomically priced to begin with, then add a bit of gold or some diamonds from the factory and boom, you’re talking $20k+. I’m a millennial watch collector, and am into horological more than most anyone I know, and when everyone decides to dump these watches, or when they pass and their kids inherit them, whose going to be there to buy them. This isn’t the 50s and 60s where production for Rolex was low, there’s a million of them entering the market annually. Brett longs hold their value as well as a BMW, VC isn’t even discussed by most, APs are hideous in their own right and I find them to be just as much a fashion statement as Hublot. RMs I have never been able to comprehend. There is hardly any value for the $$$ in todays market. It’s unsustainable the way things have been going. When I was 18, vintage sports models were within reach for me financially, with prices now, I’d rather put a down payment on a house. They can’t go up in price forever and the market is due for a correction. Even with rare vintages, a beat up 6542 without original inserts are fetching near $40,000, who the hell is going to buy these crappy looking watches in 20 years. When I got into watches I liked vintage because of the process to make the watch, it’s much more admirable thinking someone designed the movements without aid of a computer, machines the parts manually, and hand assembled a mathematical masterpiece. With CNC machining and Cad drafting, it’s hardly a mechanical feat. But we shall see, I think the watch market is going to create its own demise once people realize how many of them are actually out there and spending $20-30k on something that’s hardly special doesn’t differentiate themselves from the millions of others who have done the same.
Couldn’t have been better said! Lots of food for thought!
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:21 PM   #33
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Please let me correct that for you, the main reason to be concerned is if central banks stop flooding markets with Easy Money. Once trillions and trillions of dollars Euro Yen etc stop flooding the markets, then cheap money won't be chasing Goods frivolously.


That’s one potential reason that falls under my blanket statement of “for whatever reason” ;)
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:27 PM   #34
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Idk what they do but 26k for a code 11 59 3 hander is absurd. I dont care how long it took AP to make the curved glass or new design.

Good luck selling anyone that watch at msrp lest they are simply buying the brand. An ap diver can be had for under 13k used. This watch is double....


Exclusivity is the name of the game in this case. The diver and the 1159 aren’t in the same product class. The Jumbo is a two-hander that trades in the 30k range, and yes I know it has decades of heritage behind it, but it’s still just a two-hand steel watch.

Regarding selling the watch at 26k, I’ll need to see one in hand before deciding if it’s worth it to me.
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Old 17 January 2019, 01:36 PM   #35
Justinmg
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Originally Posted by andromeda160 View Post
FP Journe has brilliant movements and design and is still competitively priced amongst mass produced watches by Patek,VC,Rolex and AP. People lined up and are buying platinum Daytona’s and justify it because no one ever thought it would happen. Consumers drive the market and if someone wants something from a certain brand to fit their niche thinking on what would be the ultimate watch from the maker, the bigger companies can price how they want. They’re not selling watches to the masses. Your average joe might be able to get into a SS Rolex, which to me are astronomically priced to begin with, then add a bit of gold or some diamonds from the factory and boom, you’re talking $20k+. I’m a millennial watch collector, and am into horology more than most anyone I know, and when everyone decides to dump these watches, or when they pass and their kids inherit them, whose going to be there to buy them. This isn’t the 50s and 60s where production for Rolex was low, there’s a million of them entering the market annually. Breitlings hold their value as well as a BMW, VC isn’t even discussed by most, APs are hideous in their own right and I find them to be just as much a fashion statement as Hublot. RMs I have never been able to comprehend. There is hardly any value for the $$$ in todays market. It’s unsustainable the way things have been going. When I was 18, vintage sports models were within reach for me financially, with prices now, I’d rather put a down payment on a house. They can’t go up in price forever and the market is due for a correction. Even with rare vintages, beat up 6542s without original inserts are fetching near $40,000, who the hell is going to buy these crappy looking watches in 20 years. When I got into watches I liked vintage because of the process to make the watch, it’s much more admirable thinking someone designed the movements without aid of a computer, machined the parts manually, and hand assembled a mathematical masterpiece. With CNC machining and Cad drafting, it’s hardly a mechanical feat. But we shall see, I think the watch market is going to create its own demise once people realize how many of them are actually out there and spending $20-30k on something that’s hardly special doesn’t differentiate themselves from the millions of others who have done the same.
Agree
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Old 17 January 2019, 10:40 PM   #36
enjoythemusic
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That’s one potential reason that falls under my blanket statement of “for whatever reason” ;)




Quote:
Originally Posted by andromeda160 View Post
When I got into watches I liked vintage because of the process to make the watch, it’s much more admirable thinking someone designed the movements without aid of a computer, machined the parts manually, and hand assembled a mathematical masterpiece.
As a looongtime admirer and collector of mechanical timepieces, very much enjoyed your entire post and agree with much of it. Like you, vintage holds a special place because it took TRUE science, math, and of course creative and talented artist(s) to produce. Am surprised that today modern Patek, for example, is so highly regarded nowadays as they're really not that much special about most of them as compared to others. Especially for the price, which i believe you touched upon in your original post.

FPJ gets my vote if you're going modern 'mainstream'. Of course there are many great independent mechanical watch creators who make a mere small handful of pieces per year. Hopefully people who desire true craft shy away from mainstream brands and seek something truly CREATED by a human.

JMHO
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