Signature 1

[Ichiran]

Saw this beautiful rose gold Signature 1 at an AD, tried it on and was impressed. The only problem for me is the U$210k price tag - do I like it so much to buy this watch over 2 Vingt-8, 2 Romain Gauthier Insight Micro-Rotor, 2 Sylvain Pinaud Origine, 3 Chronomètre Artisans or 1.5 RRCCII? Anyone has thoughts or feedback on this watch and the pricing?

IMG_20230529_205800_(800_x_1080_pixel).jpg

The hand-finishing on the big balance wheel is beautiful though. At 41mm, it is one of the only 2 GF I can wear on my wrist.

[llngoc]

Looks gorgeous on your wrist. And this is also the only GF which interests me for the reason due to the case size.

And only you can answer if it is worth 2x of a KV or RG. :-) But you are in that territory that 1% improvement may cost 2x the price so logic does not apply anymore. (After all, there is no logic in our hobby. )

One note though. GF resale is usually not good compares to other brands so maybe some price negotiation is possible. A friend of mine got a Balancier S2 last year and was able to get some deal from the AD.

[WatchEater666]

I definitely would not buy a GF brand new. Like llngdoc said, they will drop in value. Just set up an alert and grab one used when it pops up. You'll probably save quite a bit.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by llngoc

And only you can answer if it is worth 2x of a KV or RG. :-) But you are in that territory that 1% improvement may cost 2x the price so logic does not apply anymore. (After all, there is no logic in our hobby. )

The issue is I can't see the 1% improvement where finishing is concerned, or am I missing something? I will definitely be a buyer at half the price.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

I definitely would not buy a GF brand new. Like llngdoc said, they will drop in value. Just set up an alert and grab one used when it pops up. You'll probably save quite a bit.

I saw 1 listing from HK and Watchbox respectively. They are in different metals and they are indeed priced lower than retail price. I do like the rose gold though.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The issue is I can't see the 1% improvement where finishing is concerned, or am I missing something? I will definitely be a buyer at half the price.

I think you answered yourself then.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The issue is I can't see the 1% improvement where finishing is concerned, or am I missing something? I will definitely be a buyer at half the price.

Horomariobro on IG has some good detailed shots/explanations.

For me personally, the incremental 5% is not worth 2x the price. Not huge on GF design either, like you guys, their regular pieces are too big for my wrists. With that said, if I was a billionaire I'd probably own an S2 lol.

Like you, I'd prefer to have a Logical 1 and a Voutillainen for the same money.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Horomariobro on IG has some good detailed shots/explanations.

For me personally, the incremental 5% is not worth 2x the price. Not huge on GF design either, like you guys, their regular pieces are too big for my wrists. With that said, if I was a billionaire I'd probably own an S2 lol.

Like you, I'd prefer to have a Logical 1 and a Voutillainen for the same money.

I think you are onto something. For the same money, a Logical Two plus a Voutilainen Inverse will be the same money and definitely 2x enjoyment with the same design language.

The only problem is when you can get those.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I saw 1 listing from HK and Watchbox respectively. They are in different metals and they are indeed priced lower than retail price. I do like the rose gold though.

The ones I’ve seen on WB have all been well over list 🤔

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Russell996

The ones I’ve seen on WB have all been well over list 🤔

All 3 are below list (U$210k). The WG one is listed by WB at U$194k and the SS is U$183k. Another HK SS grey dial also U$183k. They are listed in C24 and WB website.

Which ones did you see well over list?

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by llngoc

The only problem is when you can get those.

That's a great point - all Kari now come with a 5-year wait. The Signature 1 is available for purchase right now.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Horomariobro on IG has some good detailed shots/explanations.

Yes indeed I love his macro shots and I follow him too. He recently got the Insight Micro-Rotor in the exact WG configuration I ordered and I'm happy to see those sharp angles from RG in his IG. His salmon Vingt-8 is what brings me into independent watches.

I wish I have more funds for these watches. It's a great feeling to walk out of a store with a new Signature 1 on wrist.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

That's a great point - all Kari now come with a 5-year wait. The Signature 1 is available for purchase right now.

Inverse is probably 2028/2029 and Logical Two has to be 2025+

SS Signatures One sounds like a good one

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

All 3 are below list (U$210k). The WG one is listed by WB at U$194k and the SS is U$183k. Another HK SS grey dial also U$183k. They are listed in C24 and WB website.

Which ones did you see well over list?

Well when I was looking at a SS they were asking $185k against a list of $170k. Looking now the price for SS is just under $165k. Still seems pretty close to list?

I really want to love these pieces due to the level of workmanship but I have to say I struggle with their eclectic dial layouts and of course on most the size is not for me.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Inverse is probably 2028/2029 and Logical Two has to be 2025+

SS Signatures One sounds like a good one

Yes inverse is 2028. I just ordered one a few weeks ago.

Originally Posted by Russell996

Well when I was looking at a SS they were asking $185k against a list of $170k. Looking now the price for SS is just under $165k. Still seems pretty close to list?

I really want to love these pieces due to the level of workmanship but I have to say I struggle with their eclectic dial layouts and of course on most the size is not for me.

Yeah the size is really tough on their normal models. They are quite thick too in most cases. REALLY cool to look at though.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Yes inverse is 2028. I just ordered one a few weeks ago.



Yeah the size is really tough on their normal models. They are quite thick too in most cases. REALLY cool to look at though.

The workmanship is definitely top notch. Even the box and the loupe are impressive. Only problem is indeed that the watch is also plus size like the box.

My AD is actually dissuading me from Voutilainen now since the wait is too long and also delay is expected. I was inquiring to add a 28 SC and he told me I should be good with my incomings and avoided my interest to add.

[ajw45]

I'm a fan, do it! A stainless steel GF S1 has been my daily driver ever since I started going back to the office last year. No one will mistake it for any popular sports watch and try to rob me for it on the subway, it is thin and slips under any sleeve, and wound every day it is super accurate. The winding sound is super satisfying, the watch is loud for not being a tourbillon, the balance wheel is so perfectly finished it creates a rainbow like reflection in certain lights. I never intended for the S1 to be a daily driver, more a special occasion watch, but I've enjoyed the daily winding ritual, the depth, the finish, the size, everything so much I'm okay with the extra scratches.

Is it worth it? I think that gets real subjective real fast as the price climbs and there is absolutely a point of diminishing returns and this is way out there so it has to make sense for you. Is a 911 worth 2 BMW M2s? Is an 812 worth 2 911s? Are 2 dry aged tomahawks worth 1 A5 wagyu strip? I think the it's less a question of volume and more a question of what do you get from the S1 different from any other watch and is that difference worth it?

I like a good deal and as crazy as it sounds, I think the S1 is actually a great value. I know it sounds nuts. Not saying x is better than y, I'm a few years into my KV wait and I think his watches are great value too, but when you really look at some of the other watches mentioned I think the S1 as a package merits it's price. Gold chatons for every jewel, every wheel spoke is angled and polished, anglage is more than twice as thick as the last Ferdinand Berthoud I saw, black polish is truly mirror like, no orange peel, jewel like screw heads, etc etc. The quality of execution is up there with some of the best, ever, and considering the prices we've seen for Dufour, RR, etc. heck, even Journe which honestly doesn't even play in this league, the S1 is a bargain.

That said, I would still try to pay under msrp

[WatchEater666]

Sick watch but is that Microsoft teams in the background? I would trade 5 signature ones to never use MS Teams ��

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Sick watch but is that Microsoft teams in the background? I would trade 5 signature ones to never use MS Teams ��

Lol, the S1 helps with the pain. For real.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by ajw45

I like a good deal and as crazy as it sounds, I think the S1 is actually a great value. I know it sounds nuts. Not saying x is better than y, I'm a few years into my KV wait and I think his watches are great value too, but when you really look at some of the other watches mentioned I think the S1 as a package merits it's price. Gold chatons for every jewel, every wheel spoke is angled and polished, anglage is more than twice as thick as the last Ferdinand Berthoud I saw, black polish is truly mirror like, no orange peel, jewel like screw heads, etc etc. The quality of execution is up there with some of the best, ever, and considering the prices we've seen for Dufour, RR, etc. heck, even Journe which honestly doesn't even play in this league, the S1 is a bargain.

It's post like this one that makes TRF such an informative and enjoyable forum. Thanks for posting your beautiful S1 and sharing the details of the finishing. I truly appreciate you taking the time to write about your watch from the perspective of an owner. The gold chatons are lovely. Now it just makes the decision harder

[llngoc]

This is gorgeous and you got me thinking now. A steel S1 seems to be a perfect entry into GF.

Originally Posted by ajw45

I'm a fan, do it! A stainless steel GF S1 has been my daily driver ever since I started going back to the office last year. No one will mistake it for any popular sports watch and try to rob me for it on the subway, it is thin and slips under any sleeve, and wound every day it is super accurate. The winding sound is super satisfying, the watch is loud for not being a tourbillon, the balance wheel is so perfectly finished it creates a rainbow like reflection in certain lights. I never intended for the S1 to be a daily driver, more a special occasion watch, but I've enjoyed the daily winding ritual, the depth, the finish, the size, everything so much I'm okay with the extra scratches.

Is it worth it? I think that gets real subjective real fast as the price climbs and there is absolutely a point of diminishing returns and this is way out there so it has to make sense for you. Is a 911 worth 2 BMW M2s? Is an 812 worth 2 911s? Are 2 dry aged tomahawks worth 1 A5 wagyu strip? I think the it's less a question of volume and more a question of what do you get from the S1 different from any other watch and is that difference worth it?

I like a good deal and as crazy as it sounds, I think the S1 is actually a great value. I know it sounds nuts. Not saying x is better than y, I'm a few years into my KV wait and I think his watches are great value too, but when you really look at some of the other watches mentioned I think the S1 as a package merits it's price. Gold chatons for every jewel, every wheel spoke is angled and polished, anglage is more than twice as thick as the last Ferdinand Berthoud I saw, black polish is truly mirror like, no orange peel, jewel like screw heads, etc etc. The quality of execution is up there with some of the best, ever, and considering the prices we've seen for Dufour, RR, etc. heck, even Journe which honestly doesn't even play in this league, the S1 is a bargain.

That said, I would still try to pay under msrp

[GB-man]

Beautiful watch. Not my first choice but as part of a collection the appeal is there. I would personally prefer a balancier s2.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

It's post like this one that makes TRF such an informative and enjoyable forum. Thanks for posting your beautiful S1 and sharing the details of the finishing. I truly appreciate you taking the time to write about your watch from the perspective of an owner. The gold chatons are lovely. Now it just makes the decision harder

Absolutely! I could nerd out all day on the little details about the S1:

- S1 is the only GF with Geneva stripes. Didier worked for Dufour prior to going to GF and plans for the striped bridge were seen at Dufour's workshop. The stripes were done by hand by Didier in the Dufour method which yields those soft almost cloud like stripes where it's almost impossible to see the transition from stripe to stripe at the edge of the bridge. Also note in the plans even the underside of the bridge which no one can see has been specced with pearlage.

- This was the first non-tourbillon from GF. GF is not precious about making everything in house and does get components like balances from suppliers for their complex multi-axis tourbillons. The S1 was new ground for GF to go down to the basics and make their own balance wheels in house, bend their own overcoils, etc. They actually said it was hard to make a watch this cheap which sounds totally obnoxious out of context but I think Stephen meant it with sincerity.

- Supposedly only 66 S1s in total making it rarer than a Simplicity. Something I really like about pre-Calce GF is that the watches received proper numbers, not this 1 of XX baloney on the current GF sports models.

- While there was a team behind the S1, Didier did a lot of the work himself. He cut and finished all the wheels, striped all the bridges, etc. so there really was an individuality to the S1 even within the GF.

- The dial markers are actually engraved, then enamel filled, then fired. The the most simple thing that anyone else would have just pad printed GF took to the absolute extreme.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by llngoc

This is gorgeous and you got me thinking now. A steel S1 seems to be a perfect entry into GF.

Do it do it do it!!!!!! Another way to look at it is these were MSRP prices in 2017! If you are getting 2017 MSRP in 2023 that's still a deal

[llngoc]

You should be the spokesperson for S1.

Originally Posted by ajw45

Absolutely! I could nerd out all day on the little details about the S1:

- S1 is the only GF with Geneva stripes. Didier worked for Dufour prior to going to GF and plans for the striped bridge were seen at Dufour's workshop. The stripes were done by hand by Didier in the Dufour method which yields those soft almost cloud like stripes where it's almost impossible to see the transition from stripe to stripe at the edge of the bridge. Also note in the plans even the underside of the bridge which no one can see has been specced with pearlage.

- This was the first non-tourbillon from GF. GF is not precious about making everything in house and does get components like balances from suppliers for their complex multi-axis tourbillons. The S1 was new ground for GF to go down to the basics and make their own balance wheels in house, bend their own overcoils, etc. They actually said it was hard to make a watch this cheap which sounds totally obnoxious out of context but I think Stephen meant it with sincerity.

- Supposedly only 66 S1s in total making it rarer than a Simplicity. Something I really like about pre-Calce GF is that the watches received proper numbers, not this 1 of XX baloney on the current GF sports models.

- While there was a team behind the S1, Didier did a lot of the work himself. He cut and finished all the wheels, striped all the bridges, etc. so there really was an individuality to the S1 even within the GF.

- The dial markers are actually engraved, then enamel filled, then fired. The the most simple thing that anyone else would have just pad printed GF took to the absolute extreme.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by llngoc

You should be the spokesperson for S1.

Indeed. I'm absolutely a GF fan but I learned more in the past few minutes thant in the previous ten years.

[cascavel]

But, don't you already have all the other watches you mentioned?

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by cascavel

But, don't you already have all the other watches you mentioned?

I have placed deposits for some of them and they will come in between 2024 to 2028.

I'm drawn to hand-finished watches and looking to add them to my collection. The S1 fits my wrist and I quite like the long balance bridge that is mounted diagonally. I have seen several WB videos presented by Tim and when I saw it at the AD, I stared at it and tried it on for a long time. This is a cool watch.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I have placed deposits for some of them and they will come in between 2024 to 2028.

I'm drawn to hand-finished watches and looking to add them to my collection. The S1 fits my wrist and I quite like the long balance bridge that is mounted diagonally. I have seen several WB videos presented by Tim and when I saw it at the AD, I stared at it and tried it on for a long time. This is a cool watch.

So you also use the Tim’s test to gauge if the watch fits.

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by ajw45

- The dial markers are actually engraved, then enamel filled, then fired. The the most simple thing that anyone else would have just pad printed GF took to the absolute extreme.

Does this only apply to the mail dial or also to the subdial with the seconds?

Thanks for sharing, very interesting discussion!