18k root beer GMT Master details?

[pdagregado]

Looking to see if the 18k solid gold jubilee root beer GMT Master from my dad have all original watch head parts. He doesn't have the papers anymore and was wearing it pretty much everyday until he suffered a stroke 3 years ago. He's since bequeathed the piece to me but I can't tell the exact model since I can't find anything online that looks exactly like it, so I'm wondering if the parts, such as the dial, were changed. He actually switched to a white dial because he said it's easier to see the hands, but I said the root beer dial looked much better so he switched it back. The triangle-tipped hand was damaged when the the sapphire crystal cracked when the piece was accidentally dropped. The insert is pretty scratched up due to daily use, so also considering looking for replacement parts, if available. TIA!

[TimeLord2]

Cool watch! If you remove the bracelet with a paperclip or a tooth pick you can see the serial number at 6:00 and the model number at 12:00, or vice versa. Looks like at least a later model 16758, although the insert does look a bit odd. Like it's been shaved around the outer edge or something. Beautiful hidden clasp jubilee bracelet. Dial lettering looks odd too as the letters are so close together they are touching. Perhaps repainted? Slight damage on edge of dial between 7:00 and 8:00. Wait for the experts to chime in of which I am not.

[BigBlue1]

I am not an expert so don’t t quote me. The dial isn’t like one Ive seen before, definitely questionable for sure as TL alluded to. Photos of in between the lugs will tell you what model you have. Not sure either. Maybe if you can get the case back open so we can see some pics of the movement and on the backside of the case. The watch looks suspect to me. Could be me, just my option. If it turns out everything is legit, it’s a beautiful watch to own. Sorry about your dad.

[TuRo]

Think it's a repainted dial as the esteemed Time Lord suggests - the ROLEX with a 'kissing L' ( L and E Touching) I've only seen on a 60s Explorer Dial Submariner. Off centre T25 hyphen '-' too.

Could you kindly put a photo of the engravings on the clasp please and yes the engravings between lugs be useful to see too if you can get the bracelet off. Easy job with a back of an earring or paperclip or proper tool.

[TimeToGo]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Think it's a repainted dial as the esteemed Time Lord suggests - the ROLEX with a 'kissing L' ( L and E Touching) I've only seen on a 60s Explorer Dial Submariner. Off centre T25 hyphen '-' too.

Could you kindly put a photo of the engravings on the clasp please and yes the engravings between lugs be useful to see too if you can get the bracelet off. Easy job with a back of an earring or paperclip or proper tool.

Redone dial

[dannyp]

Is it just me, or was that dial perhaps originally from a steel watch, as the hour markers look like WG, not YG? Or is it just the lighting? When I look for images of the 16758, most also show the nipple dial.

Also learned something new today - never knew that the 18k Jubilee 167xx had a hidden clasp bracelet!

[KY..]

I think the watch has seen much better days but it is at least all there and intact for now.
The bracelet is so badly worn and stretched that I would be very carful wearing the watch out of concern it may fall off the wrist.
Maybe the dial was repainted as part of the repair when the crystal got broken, but it can be replaced with an original period correct dial.
I think the bezel insert looks fine even though it is scratched up.
It looks like a well worn 16758 and you could use any one of the original factory 16758 dials for it if you plan to bring it back to its glory.
Cool watch to have the bracelet overhauled and the dial replaced and a complete movement and hand service done to.
I really like this 2nd photo of it for some reason.

[baumare]

Could the insert be from an earlier 1675/8 ?

[JustinK]

I would send this one to Rolex and get the dial+ hands replaced and have the watch polished. I would remove the insert before sending and have them replace that as well.

Great watch just needs to be serviced.

[cajunron]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

I am not an expert so don’t t quote me. The dial isn’t like one Ive seen before, definitely questionable for sure as TL alluded to. Photos of in between the lugs will tell you what model you have. Not sure either. Maybe if you can get the case back open so we can see some pics of the movement and on the backside of the case. The watch looks suspect to me. Could be me, just my option. If it turns out everything is legit, it’s a beautiful watch to own. Sorry about your dad.

I agree. The printing on the dial looks off.

[roadie1]

That’s a cool watch. I love all gold Rootbeers.

[BigBlue1]

Originally Posted by roadie1

That’s a cool watch. I love all gold Rootbeers.

I agree

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by BigBlue1

I agree

Gorgeous!


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[pdagregado]

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Will definitely have it checked out by the official Rolex store.

[BigBlue1]

Originally Posted by pdagregado

Thanks for all the input, everyone. Will definitely have it checked out by the official Rolex store.

I can’t wait to hear the good news

[pdagregado]

Updating my original post to include more photos of the case and insides.

Haven't been able to make time to bring the piece to RSC since we moved much away from the city but, as others have mentioned, the dial has indeed been repainted or, sadly, replaced without my dad realizing it.

I'm torn between leaving the watch as is (since that's how my dad wore it up until his stroke) and replacing the dial for the correct one, plus replacing the hands. Anyone selling the correct dial and hands for a reasonable price or can point me in the right direction?

[KY..]

Personally I like the bones of the watch as it is basically all there.
I highly recommend getting rid of the stainless steel pins that are attaching the bracelet to the watch head.
They should be 18k for a solid 18k watch.
A replacement authentic dial can be found in many locations but please share photos here of any potential dial purchases so the group can help keep you from buying the wrong dial.
And the bracelet really should be overhauled or at least removed for now and replaced with a leather/cloth strap for wearability.
Good luck!

[BigBlue1]

Originally Posted by KY..

Personally I like the bones of the watch as it is basically all there.
I highly recommend getting rid of the stainless steel pins that are attaching the bracelet to the watch head.
They should be 18k for a solid 18k watch.
A replacement authentic dial can be found in many locations but please share photos here of any potential dial purchases so the group can help keep you from buying the wrong dial.
And the bracelet really should be overhauled or at least removed for now and replaced with a leather/cloth strap for wearability.
Good luck!

This

[JustinK]

The correct dial and hands for your watch will easily cost $3000 usd. You can probably find a black nipple dial cheaper but that changes the look of the watch completely. Even if you find a dial and hands you will likely still have to service the watch.

I would just send it to Rolex for a service and have them swap the dial and hands for genuine service parts.
If you have to have a nipple dial I would plan on spending 4K by the time you have the watch serviced and source the correct parts. Rolex will probably be less than half that amount. They will of course give you an estimate before they do any of the work.

[joli160]

I’d keep the dial because I would want it to be the same as my dad used.

Fix the bracelet and springbars, throw in a service at an independent and wear it with pride

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by KY..

Personally I like the bones of the watch as it is basically all there.
I highly recommend getting rid of the stainless steel pins that are attaching the bracelet to the watch head.
They should be 18k for a solid 18k watch.
A replacement authentic dial can be found in many locations but please share photos here of any potential dial purchases so the group can help keep you from buying the wrong dial.
And the bracelet really should be overhauled or at least removed for now and replaced with a leather/cloth strap for wearability.
Good luck!

This is the one I'm considering to buy. Haven't been able to find anyone else who is selling just the dial.

[KY..]

Originally Posted by pdagregado

This is the one I'm considering to buy. Haven't been able to find anyone else who is selling just the dial.

The photo you provided is not really clear enough, but it is the correct dial to fit your watch movement.
I can see the dial where it’s being sold and would like for others who are great at spotting touched up dials to chime in.
Do you have an issue with providing the sales link or someone else providing it?

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by pdagregado

This is the one I'm considering to buy. Haven't been able to find anyone else who is selling just the dial.

Suggest you get a really good quality photo of this dial and then compare it all with all the brown dials - no substitute for forensically checking all the fonts, spacings (especially), coronets, footers etc : below includes 1675/8 16758

https://gmtmaster1675.com/brown-dials/

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Suggest you get a really good quality photo of this dial and then compare it all with all the brown dials - no substitute for forensically checking all the fonts, spacings (especially), coronets, footers etc : below includes 1675/8 16758

Thanks for this reference, TuRo. Checked the seller's photos but couldn't quite match it up according to my watch's SN 70xxx. Based on the descriptions, I believe the correct dial for the 16758 should have the painted vs. the applied crown. Would appreciate your input on this one I'm planning to purchase. TIA

[TuRo]

Ah yes that article doesn't have the painted coronets of the 16758 you are correct.
I'm not an expert on these.

There might be a few dial types.

The ones I have seen most have a line above and under the I in SWISS like this :

https://amsterdamvintagewatches.com/...aster-16758-3/

Though there is one on C24 that is similar to it (though it does have a tiny line under the I whereas yours does not at all) :

Rolex GMT-Master
£32,958
https://chrono24.app/rolex/rolex-gmt...GB&SETCURR=GBP


Other proper brown 758 nipple experts might confirm it is ok/or not hopefully.

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by TuRo

Ah yes that article doesn't have the painted coronets of the 16758 you are correct.
I'm not an expert on these.

There might be a few dial types.

The ones I have seen most have a line above and under the I in SWISS like this :


Though there is one on C24 that is similar to it though:

Rolex GMT-Master
£32,958


Other proper brown 758 nipple experts might confirm it is ok/or not hopefully.

Thanks, I did notice that as well. I did see a couple of painted crowns without the line under the I, but they're in pretty rough condition.

Yes, hope the other 758 nipple experts chime in.

[TimeLord2]

Yes, as you (and TuRo) pointed out it should have the painted, not applied cornet like your example. It does not appear to be repainted to me, although the surface, in general, does seem a little spotty. Could be the angle, resolution, IDK. I will also note, it is quite common to have some darkening of the lume plots. There are also Luminova service dial (SWISS) (https://www.ebay.com/itm/293966358868) versions of this dial that could also be used but Tritium is appropriate for this watch. The Soleil dials are also prone to paint defects with some sellers calling them Lava or Magma dials, the effect usually starts around the applied indices. I think it's more like damage as it's a continuous processes that , far as I know, cannot be stopped. like such https://www.ebay.com/itm/155001590607. There is also an almost gilt dial with lacquer coating that doesn't have the same Soleil effect but is still a color changing dial but more subtle. Here is an interesting link for you http://www.vrfm.io/gold-gmt-masters. That's all I got…

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by dannyp

Is it just me, or was that dial perhaps originally from a steel watch, as the hour markers look like WG, not YG? Or is it just the lighting? When I look for images of the 16758, most also show the nipple dial.

Also learned something new today - never knew that the 18k Jubilee 167xx had a hidden clasp bracelet!

Thanks, yes, should be a nipple dial!

[pdagregado]

What a great reference, thanks so much for that, TimeLord!

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by KY..

The photo you provided is not really clear enough, but it is the correct dial to fit your watch movement.
I can see the dial where it’s being sold and would like for others who are great at spotting touched up dials to chime in.
Do you have an issue with providing the sales link or someone else providing it?

No issue providing the sales link except that I had to have 10 posts before being able to include a URL haha. In the meantime, I replied with the photos the seller provided.

Here is the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/19534550993....c100667.m2042