Omega Watches Will Be “Officially Certified” By New Swiss METAS Certification

[Maxy]

Omega Watches Will Be “Officially Certified” By New Swiss METAS Certification, COSC Abandoned

Today, Omega has announced some very exciting news in regard to how it will certify the performance and accuracy of their timepieces with in-house produced movements. In short, Swiss Omega watches will abandon COSC Chronometer certification in favor of a new and more comprehensive certification by the Swiss government controlled METAS agency.

One major reason for this is that moving forward more and more Omega watches will contain the company's Master Co-Axial technology which includes both a unique type of escapement as well as anti-magnetic properties

Full Article - http://www.ablogtowatch.com/omega-me...certification/

[Rashid.bk]

hmmm, honestly from reading through all the gibberish, this sounds wishy washy. sounds like they're just testing their own watches.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

hmmm, honestly from reading through all the gibberish, this sounds wishy washy. sounds like they're just testing their own watches.

[tegee26]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

hmmm, honestly from reading through all the gibberish, this sounds wishy washy. sounds like they're just testing their own watches.

Agreed......definitely a positive. BUT seems more like a marketing ploy than improved quality control IMHO.

[Wesley Crusher]

Despite this certification being open to everybody, the truth is that it is totally geared toward Omega. Making a watch to be antimagnetic to over 15,000 gauss is not the industry standard, nor will it be for many years (if ever).

What I am more interested in is how the accuracy will be tested (movement alone and within the watch). This is definitely more impressive than the COSC certification. I think COSC was a good idea back in the day, but watches are now made with such precision that even a cheap Chinese movement can pass the COSC certification. It is about time things got more serious.

[Cuts33]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Despite this certification being open to everybody, the truth is that it is totally geared toward Omega. Making a watch to be antimagnetic to over 15,000 gauss is not the industry standard, nor will it be for many years (if ever).

I listened to the interviews with Hayek and Urquhart from after the announcement. They indicated METAS will certify whatever standards a particular company sets.

So if Tissot has a line that it claims runs -2 / + 5 and is 300m water resistant, METAS will certify the watch meets those claims.

They are simply being used as a checks and balances that the watch does whatever company X says it does.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I listened to the interviews with Hayek and Urquhart from after the announcement. They indicated METAS will certify whatever standards a particular company sets.

So if Tissot has a line that it claims runs -2 / + 5 and is 300m water resistant, METAS will certify the watch meets those claims.

They are simply being used as a checks and balances that the watch does whatever company X says it does.

Thanks for clearing that up. Hodinkee has an article about this and their wording is slightly confusing.

Watches will be tested according to the following quantitative metrics:

the function of each movement when exposed to magnetic fields greater than 15,000 gauss
the function of each watch when exposed to magnetic fields greater than 15,000 gauss
average daily precision (different positions and temperatures) between 0 and +5 sec / day before and after exposure to magnetic fields greater than 15,000 gauss
autonomy (power reserve) determined in house by the watch model
water resistance.

So those are the standards that Omega set. Other companies are free to use those standards (won't happen) or set their own, correct?

I don't know if I like that idea. There should be an industry standard that all participating companies meet.

[watchstudent]

I think it is just something they can have their salesmen and women say to Joe Public. "Omega have this certification, far superior and thorough than the COSC that Rolex uses sir"

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I listened to the interviews with Hayek and Urquhart from after the announcement. They indicated METAS will certify whatever standards a particular company sets.

So if Tissot has a line that it claims runs -2 / + 5 and is 300m water resistant, METAS will certify the watch meets those claims.

They are simply being used as a checks and balances that the watch does whatever company X says it does.

This makes no sense. Must be misunderstood. That would be lowering the standard then. A METAS cert would only mean that what....they agree with the manufacturer?!! How is that a better standard then.

That certification is baloney if thats the case. It's like saying this "new" Harvard School of Law is the new standard and will now graduate every student based on each student deciding whether they themselves are ready to practice law, we will just assess them on their individual criteria that they provide us.

There has to be a minimum standard which of course should be high, or else it doesn't mean anything. A Navy SeAL is who he is because he met the standard set by those responsible for his training and development. Not because he said what he could do and someone evaluated that.


This is just a:
- cost cutting step
- further increase Omega's control in the industry
- marketing move

[soundserious]

Beautiful watch, regardless of the marketing nonsense.

[asadtiger]

I think we should look at it this way: Omega is making a product with attributes higher than the COSC certificate. They have designated standards which are higher than normal industry practice, and a third party is attesting that their product meets those higher standards..isn't this a good thing?

[RollieVerde]

Originally Posted by asadtiger

I think we should look at it this way: Omega is making a product with attributes higher than the COSC certificate. They have designated standards which are higher than normal industry practice, and a third party is attesting that their product meets those higher standards..isn't this a good thing?

My question is, are these really higher standards? The big thing to me w/COSC cert is not the actual -4/+6 requirement but the time/temperature nature of the testing (fifteen days, in five positions, at three different temperatures). It takes time and money to do every single movement, especially since it's done (I believe) off site. The ability for a movement to stay stable over a range of temps, positions and such is more important to me than extraordinary antimagnetic qualities

[VICI]

+/- a few seconds, end of the day it's not that big a deal.

[MitchSteel]

Oh Omeeega, Omeeega........another gimmicky ploy I smells

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

hmmm, honestly from reading through all the gibberish, this sounds wishy washy. sounds like they're just testing their own watches.

yeah, just like those wishy washy brands like Patek/AP/JLC....

Originally Posted by tegee26

Agreed......definitely a positive. BUT seems more like a marketing ploy than improved quality control IMHO.

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Despite this certification being open to everybody, the truth is that it is totally geared toward Omega. Making a watch to be antimagnetic to over 15,000 gauss is not the industry standard, nor will it be for many years (if ever).

What I am more interested in is how the accuracy will be tested (movement alone and within the watch). This is definitely more impressive than the COSC certification. I think COSC was a good idea back in the day, but watches are now made with such precision that even a cheap Chinese movement can pass the COSC certification. It is about time things got more serious.

Originally Posted by Cuts33

I listened to the interviews with Hayek and Urquhart from after the announcement. They indicated METAS will certify whatever standards a particular company sets.

So if Tissot has a line that it claims runs -2 / + 5 and is 300m water resistant, METAS will certify the watch meets those claims.

They are simply being used as a checks and balances that the watch does whatever company X says it does.

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

This makes no sense. Must be misunderstood. That would be lowering the standard then. A METAS cert would only mean that what....they agree with the manufacturer?!! How is that a better standard then.

That certification is baloney if thats the case. It's like saying this "new" Harvard School of Law is the new standard and will now graduate every student based on each student deciding whether they themselves are ready to practice law, we will just assess them on their individual criteria that they provide us.

There has to be a minimum standard which of course should be high, or else it doesn't mean anything. A Navy SeAL is who he is because he met the standard set by those responsible for his training and development. Not because he said what he could do and someone evaluated that.


This is just a:
- cost cutting step
- further increase Omega's control in the industry
- marketing move

Originally Posted by MitchSteel

Oh Omeeega, Omeeega........another gimmicky ploy I smells

I don't think that you guys really understand this...
it is NOT Omega testing Omega Watches....METAS is a Government agency, not a division of OMEGA.

the Testing procedure seems more rigorous, and will involve testing the whole watch, rather than just the movement.

What I am not clear about is what a METAS standard would be...
certainly the antimagnetism can not be a standard requirement of METAS certification, otherwise few watch brands would acquire METAS certification...even most Omegas right now..

I think that there would be a minimum standard of timekeeping precision, and then further testing on each superlative from there (waterproofing of the finished watch/anti-magnetism/enhanced sensation of self-worth inducing, etc etc)

I think that Omega is throwing the gauntlet down...is anyone else up for letting this independent federal institution test their watches?


like was mentioned, COSC doesn't mean that much anymore...

I think that with METAS testing the entire finished product, you get a better sense of durability as well...

It could be a marketing ploy, or it could be just another sign/message that OMEGA has evolved further, and now has 'Out-grown' COSC...

[asadtiger]

I agree with R.J. aka Superdoc, that Omega has higher standard product than COSC certification, so they have defined a HIGHER standard than COSC testing and asked another third party to certify that they are living up to that higher standard...all COSC tests will be conducted for accuracy and isochronism and MORE, so I really thing this is a positive step for the overall better quality of the product.

[D111s]

I think this could well be a good thing, potentially for the industry.

Omega's Co-Axial movements have been well documented as being highly accurate typically better than COSC standards!

Thorough testing of all aspects not just the time keeping by a regulated third party would surely keep the quality control tight? Which means the customer gets a better watch?

[RollieVerde]

"I don't think that you guys really understand this...
it is NOT Omega testing Omega Watches....METAS is a Government agency, not a division of OMEGA."

Read it again. Omega will be testing the watches, not METAS. Omega will have to use METAS certified equipment, but they will be testing they own watches in-house. That's why it's supposed to be cheaper.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

yeah, just like those wishy washy brands like Patek/AP/JLC....



I don't think that you guys really understand this...
it is NOT Omega testing Omega Watches....METAS is a Government agency, not a division of OMEGA.

Yes it is.....read below.

---"the testing will actually take place under Omega's roof in the interest of efficiency (and because at least as of now we don't believe METAS has a facility to test watches - unlike the COSC in Geneva). METAS will however be certifying the equipment used to do all the certifying.

"In-house certification" using third-party certified machines and procedures theoretically causes a rift in trust because the point of third-party certification is to be... well, third-party. Omega now has the duty to prove that even though though it will control certification internally, that it will adhere to the strict policies and requirements set forth by METAS"---

And by far Omega is not no where near the level of Patek and it's seal. So I still believe that yes, this sounds wishy washy, particularly because 1 there isn't even a 100% clear standard yet 2 METAS isn't a company particularly vested in testing watches, there movements and particularly accuracy in a range of environments(this as per the article itself..... METAS' involvement goes from "legal metrology" related to weighing instruments, electricity, and a number of other sciences through chemistry and optics, all the way to frequency and time)...

All this sounds like clear publicity and marketing as the primary reason for this is solely the amagnetic properties of the new Omega movements. Is magnetism the most important aspect of timekeeping all of a sudden....Omega seems to think so, and a $100 says there new ad campaign will specifically point out this new cert and amagnetic testing requirements. I do like the more stringent accuracy limits though.

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Yes it is.....read below.

---"the testing will actually take place under Omega's roof in the interest of efficiency (and because at least as of now we don't believe METAS has a facility to test watches - unlike the COSC in Geneva). METAS will however be certifying the equipment used to do all the certifying.

"In-house certification" using third-party certified machines and procedures theoretically causes a rift in trust because the point of third-party certification is to be... well, third-party. Omega now has the duty to prove that even though though it will control certification internally, that it will adhere to the strict policies and requirements set forth by METAS"---

And by far Omega is not no where near the level of Patek and it's seal. So I still believe that yes, this sounds wishy washy, particularly because 1 there isn't even a 100% clear standard yet 2 METAS isn't a company particularly vested in testing watches, there movements and particularly accuracy in a range of environments(this as per the article itself..... METAS' involvement goes from "legal metrology" related to weighing instruments, electricity, and a number of other sciences through chemistry and optics, all the way to frequency and time)...

All this sounds like clear publicity and marketing as the primary reason for this is solely the amagnetic properties of the new Omega movements. Is magnetism the most important aspect of timekeeping all of a sudden....Omega seems to think so, and a $100 says there new ad campaign will specifically point out this new cert and amagnetic testing requirements. I do like the more stringent accuracy limits though.

I have to say first how much I respect your posts and opinion.
You have consistently contributed well thought out and constructive posts to the forum.
So I really hope that the exchange remains civil and constructive.

But I respectfully think that you fail to really recognize what this means..
Of course it may help the marketing department, and of course this helps sales, but this is not a brand known for insignificant and wishy-washy accomplishments... Do you really think that they would risk the legacy of the brand with a marketing ploy?

You have to realize that METAS is a FEDERAL agency...not for hire...
There is still many details to be ironed out... Even if it is in omega's house,
Does a government official need to be on site?
Do they stamp it retrospectively?
These are questions not yet answered...
But be assured that nothing about this is 'wishy-washy'...

Secondly, I don't think anyone truly understands the impact of electromagnetic fields... To talk about 15000 gauss makes it seem like a force that few of us will ever encounter, but the fact is that the human body itself can conduct electromagnetic energy ...have you ever gone into a hospital? I Do every day...
If there is an MRI scanner in that building... There's a charge that you're going to absorb....
You can talk all you want about 'oils in the gaskets ' and balance wheel friction, and debate the virtues of winders, but the Truth is that most movement failure results from magnetism... Something for which most brands have no answer...

I Think that the reason Omega is trying to scream this from the rooftops, is that it is incredibly significant... And they hope for the masses to recognize it....

At some point, someone has to look at Rolex and say , "the Emporer has no clothes!!!"

[Wesley Crusher]

I am not bothered by Omega doing the testing in-house. I know they would never think about any sort of funny business. Too much is on the line.

The only thing that bothers me about the whole METAS certification, if true, is that METAS itself does not have a standard that all watches must meet like COSC. The standards that Omega has set for its own watches are impressive, no doubt, but if a lesser brand sets their own standards as, for example, -10/+10 seconds a day (and nothing else), it can also be METAS certified. On one hand, you have Omega that does all sorts of tests (accuracy, magnetic resistance, water resistance, etc...). On the other hand, you have some other brand that has BS standards that any watch can meet. Both would be METAS certified. To me, that sort of cheapens the whole thing.

I realize that METAS is not the same as COSC, but I really wish that the Swatch Group and METAS set some universal standards. For example, there could be various levels of certification, each level being more intense than the next. The higher-end watch brands would try to get the highest level of certification and the mid-end and low-end brands would go for the lower certification levels. Just a thought...

[Rashid.bk]

Thanks for your response RJ. You make valid points and I agree with your statements completely. With that in mind I believe there is some light at the end of the tunnel in this direction. However I remain a bit skeptical at this point because exactly what Wesley points out in his above post. Perhaps as this develops and takes shape we'll have a clear universal higher standard than COSC.
I do wish the testing was not done by Omega, perhaps at a later time when METAS is more prepared equipment wise, they can take over testing like COSC.

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

I am not bothered by Omega doing the testing in-house. I know they would never think about any sort of funny business. Too much is on the line.

The only thing that bothers me about the whole METAS certification, if true, is that METAS itself does not have a standard that all watches must meet like COSC. The standards that Omega has set for its own watches are impressive, no doubt, but if a lesser brand sets their own standards as, for example, -10/+10 seconds a day (and nothing else), it can also be METAS certified. On one hand, you have Omega that does all sorts of tests (accuracy, magnetic resistance, water resistance, etc...). On the other hand, you have some other brand that has BS standards that any watch can meet. Both would be METAS certified. To me, that sort of cheapens the whole thing.

I realize that METAS is not the same as COSC, but I really wish that the Swatch Group and METAS set some universal standards. For example, there could be various levels of certification, each level being more intense than the next. The higher-end watch brands would try to get the highest level of certification and the mid-end and low-end brands would go for the lower certification levels. Just a thought...

Yes, this is something I still have yet to grasp...
METAS is an institution whose interest is in the measuring itself...
as long as there is an accurate measurement - they are satisfied...

the problem, is that you can accurately measure how long it takes me to take a dump... it doesn't make it an accomplishment for me (most of the time)...

I think that the anti-magnetism is something central to the whole effort...
to prove that this thing is everything Omega says it is...

But I agree, it would seem that without a set of standards for certification, it can't truly be 'a seal'...

but will be interesting to see how they manage to play it out...

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

Thanks for your response RJ. You make valid points and I agree with your statements completely. With that in mind I believe there is some light at the end of the tunnel in this direction. However I remain a bit skeptical at this point because exactly what Wesley points out in his above post. Perhaps as this develops and takes shape we'll have a clear universal higher standard than COSC.
I do wish the testing was not done by Omega, perhaps at a later time when METAS is more prepared equipment wise, they can take over testing like COSC.

Skepticism is a learned trait....

I strive to achieve Cautious optimism

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

most movement failure results from magnetism...

Most movement failure is a result of magnetism? I hadn't heard that assessment before.

[RollieVerde]

Originally Posted by powerfunk

Most movement failure is a result of magnetism? I hadn't heard that assessment before.

An excellent opportunity for some of our expert watchmakers to chime in on their experiences with this problem. And have they seen an increase in the last decade or so due to the proliferation of electronic devices? The popularity hybrid and full electric cars?

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by SUPERDOC

Yes, this is something I still have yet to grasp...
METAS is an institution whose interest is in the measuring itself...
as long as there is an accurate measurement - they are satisfied...

the problem, is that you can accurately measure how long it takes me to take a dump... it doesn't make it an accomplishment for me (most of the time)...

I think that the anti-magnetism is something central to the whole effort...
to prove that this thing is everything Omega says it is...

But I agree, it would seem that without a set of standards for certification, it can't truly be 'a seal'...

but will be interesting to see how they manage to play it out...

Maybe we've overthinking this. Omega wants to certify their watches to a specific standard that COSC is unable to do. So, they turned to METAS who can handle the task. If you think about it like that, the whole idea makes sense.

Having said that, I don't think this whole METAS certification is groundbreaking to the watch industry as a whole. First, there are a number of companies (low-end to ultra high-end) who do not certify their watches with COSC. Naturally, they will not care about a METAS certification. Second, the companies who do certify their watches with COSC aren't likely to jump ship. Why? They have no reason to.

I can see all the brands within the Swatch Group eventually being METAS certified, but that's about it.

[SUPERDOC]

Originally Posted by RollieVerde

An excellent opportunity for some of our expert watchmakers to chime in on their experiences with this problem. And have they seen an increase in the last decade or so due to the proliferation of electronic devices? The popularity hybrid and full electric cars?

For fun put your Rolex next to your leather iPad case with magnet clasp/closure...
Watch the second hand slow or even stop...

That movement now has been charged...

How do you think that will affect it...
Of course this is not a strong field ...
But even you hand holding that case may have a weak charge...
Losing 2 more seconds per day ?
Oil in gasket? Maybe not...

[Rashid.bk]

intersting points.

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

hmmm, honestly from reading through all the gibberish, this sounds wishy washy. sounds like they're just testing their own watches.

Agreed