DeepSea James Cameron at my AD

[Ad11wrd]

Personally I think Rolex have messed up to give a watch two different model I.Ds for different regions. (No consistency), why for the America market it’s badged as a D-Blue and the UK is a 116660 and unless you have the original receipt with JC on it or a link to Rolex”s serial number bill of materials there’s no clear proof of originality. And yes for a short time it may be difficult to obtain a JC dial but i’m sure you will see them available at some point

[ALF61]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Please read my post again and tell me what assumptions I have made?

Anything any of us post on here about what might happen or why something is happening is always going to be speculation. It can't be anything else.

However, authorised dial swaps by RSC accross various references have happened, do happen and will continue to happen. That, my friend, is fact

You might be right, but to my knowledge special dials now are on an exchange basis and you must go through an AD or RSC. Rolex are interested in maintaining interest for some special edition watches, and making the premium on them. If they start giving out special edition dials the magic would come to an end.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Devildog

This topic raises some interesting points and got me thinking

Rolex has pemitted dial changes by RSCs as long as the replacement dial was originally available on that reference.

It now appears that "D-blue" warranty cards show exactly the same reference number irrespective of whether the watch has a black or D-blue dial. There is no differentiation of reference with either dial.

But why the surprise? The lack of reference differentiation with dial alone is wholly consistent with all Rolex models. The differentiators for the same numerical reference are in respect of bezel colours - not dial colours. And the only difference between the "original" Deepsea and the "commemorative" Deepsea is the dial. Other than that the watches are identical.

Rolex's own website refers to the "Rolex Deepsea" and the "Rolex Deepsea D-blue dial" It talks about the commemorative dial, not the commemorative watch

It's becoming apparent that Rolex themselves don't now consider the D-blue to be a different reference, but rather that there is one watch (the Deepsea), one reference, and two dial options. Perhaps that is why warranty cards issued by Rolex SA bear the same reference irrespective of dial?

Or perhaps Rolex really has, at the factory, swapped out the dials on slow selling Deepseas (as has been suggested in other threads). It raises the question, were any Deepseas actually "born" with a D-blue dial?

If that proves to be the case, then there has to be the likelyhood that at some point a dial swap by an RSC may well be possible, in the same way that a dial swap at service is possible on other references.

And if that happens, either original sales paperwork will be essential to evidence originality, or on the other hand, will we see secondary values between dial varaints start to equalise as the market starts to view the D blue as simply a dial varation of the same watch rather than as a stand alone piece?

This is a legitimate way of looking at it.
As far as values equalizing.
I see the Black version establishing a floor to the price of the reference with the D-blue commanding ever increasing premiums.

The D-blue carries a premium price according to Rolex.
IMO, this in of itself differentiates it enough from the "standard" Black both in practice and perception to preclude a dial swap at an RSC and I believe the current policy in this regard will be the way forward in perpetuity.
In summary, I believe that as far as Rolex is concerned in the unlikely event one comes across their desk with a swapped dial it will virtually be regarded as a Franken watch and the owner may be rather disappointed at the outcome.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by ALF61

You might be right, but to my knowledge special dials now are on an exchange basis and you must go through an AD or RSC. Rolex are interested in maintaining interest for some special edition watches, and making the premium on them. If they start giving out special edition dials the magic would come to an end.

Yes.
It would effectively undermine or de-legitimise the special models.

Playing devils advocate.
A question.
Has anybody ever seen any reference to or pics of a Kermit maxi dial and minute hand actually being fitted to any standard black dialed 16610?

Other than a quick and dirty bezel insert swap to a standard black version onto a genuine Kermit. I haven't seen anything in the past 14 years what so ever.
I should imagine getting a set out of Rolex would be absolutely impossible and preclude the possibility let alone taking into consideration the practicalities involved.
Unless there has been a wrecked Kermit out there of course?
This situation/scenario will also apply to the D-blue

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by ALF61

You might be right, but to my knowledge special dials now are on an exchange basis and you must go through an AD or RSC. Rolex are interested in maintaining interest for some special edition watches, and making the premium on them. If they start giving out special edition dials the magic would come to an end.

Special Rolex dials have only ever been on an exchange basis

[brandrea]

Here in Canada this is what the warranty card and sales receipt state ...

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[JManuel]

Strange thing, I was looking at chrono24 for the DS-Blue JC's prices and came up with this regular Deepsea with JC edition bazel.

http://www.chrono24.com/rolex/deepse...-id5944889.htm

That is the same thing many people here has been saying, the bazels can de swaped and the watch can be sold as a DS-JC edition since many cards do not say anything about being James Cameron or Blue edition, heck they even include the original bazel in the sale.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Ad11wrd

And yes for a short time it may be difficult to obtain a JC dial but i’m sure you will see them available at some point

No way.
And for the exact same reasons you outline.

Rolex are holding all the cards.
And it has always been the case they keep them close to their chest.
Even closer in recent times. Just look at all the circumstances around the release the release of the D-blue.

Firstly they made a deal of it online through various mediums with tantalizing tit bits of information totally outside of the typical Basel time frame which had every man and his dog guessing with nobody even come close to getting it right.
Then they actually release the model with the gradient dial which had never been done before. Again outside of the Basel fair.

And then they top it all off by printing a beautiful hard cover book based around the D-blue and the one man dive to the bottom of the ocean which is limited. It is as rare as hens teeth, but not as rare as the press pack released with the Kermit.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Have a look at the values of Kermits, especially the earliest ones with full sets.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by JManuel

Strange thing, I was looking at chrono24 for the DS-Blue JC's prices and came up with this regular Deepsea with JC edition bazel.

http://www.chrono24.com/rolex/deepse...-id5944889.htm

That is the same thing many people here has been saying, the bazels can de swaped and the watch can be sold as a DS-JC edition since many cards do not say anything about being James Cameron or Blue edition, heck they even include the original bazel in the sale.

It states the dial is "aftermarket".
In other words FAKE.
Not genuine.

This is exactly the point we are making as we do know there are fake D-blue dials out there.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Here in Canada this is what the warranty card and sales receipt state ...

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

As I believe they should Brian

Ps. Nice deal you got there

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Yes.
It would effectively undermine or de-legitimise the special models.

Playing devils advocate.
A question.
Has anybody ever seen any reference to or pics of a Kermit maxi dial and minute hand actually being fitted to any standard black dialed 16610?

Other than a quick and dirty bezel insert swap to a standard black version onto a genuine Kermit. I haven't seen anything in the past 14 years what so ever.
I should imagine getting a set out of Rolex would be absolutely impossible and preclude the possibility let alone taking into consideration the practicalities involved.
Unless there has been a wrecked Kermit out there of course?
This situation/scenario will also apply to the D-blue

Also playing Devil’s Advocate, the Kermit had a specific reference.

What I’m questioning (and hypothesising on) is why the D -blue (in certain markets) does not?

Agreed it is a special piece. No question. So why not continue to assign it a unique reference narrative ?

Other than what I have put forward as a possible explanation earlier in this thread?

[BreezyMan]

D blue is special, the craftmenship it takes for Rolex to make that dial is much more than the than standard black and takes much more time. Even tho I don’t like James political views, he is a true explorer and takes balls to do what he did. D blue means something much more than just the color of the dial.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Also playing Devil’s Advocate, the Kermit had a specific reference.

What I’m questioning (and hypothesising on) is why the D -blue (in certain markets) does not?

Agreed it is a special piece. No question. So why not continue to assign it a unique reference narrative ?

Other than what I have put forward as a possible explanation earlier in this thread?

I think it's just a want on the part of Rolex.
They will do what ever they want for whatever reason.
It is after all, their party

I don't think there's any point in trying to read anything much more into it.
I wonder why it seems the watches sourced from the US are the only ones that predominately have D-blue on the card.
Of course there is some inconsistency in that there are clearly others from the US which only have the Reference number.
It's a part of the mystery of Rolex.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by BreezyMan

D blue is special, the craftmenship it takes for Rolex to make that dial is much more than the than standard black and takes much more time. Even tho I don’t like James political views, he is a true explorer and takes balls to do what he did. D blue means something much more than just the color of the dial.

Yes, the craftsmanship and execution is special.
Nobody else does anything like it.

Having said that.
Rolex has done an equivalent thing in the past with the same colouring.
If I recall correctly, it was a dark Blue-Black centre fading radially out to a light blue perimeter as opposed to a gradient from top to bottom on the D-blue.

[BreezyMan]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Yes, the craftsmanship and execution is special.
Nobody else does anything like it.

Having said that.
Rolex has done an equivalent thing in the past with the same colouring.
If I recall correctly, it was a dark Blue-Black centre fading radially out to a light blue perimeter as opposed to a gradient from top to bottom on the D-blue.

Yes those dials have a name “vignette” I believe I may be wrong also they did it with a red fading

[Mrngrz46]

Guys in Switzerland (hometown of rolex) the card are without dblue specification. However in the receipt is written dblue with the serial number.

I would say to make life easier of a potential buyer, I can show the receipt of the AD. More than this....

So Who has no dblue specified on the card I warmly reccomend to keep in the box the receipt.

[BreezyMan]

Too many dial swaps to play around with this, not saying anyone’s is not the real deal I just would never buy one without the card. Receipts are easy to edit or make at home. No ad without the person who is on the receipts will give the info out about a purchase without good reason ( for example police, IRS, etc). Chances are you can’t go to the ad with the person you buying it from most likely they are stared or countries away. Don’t think they will go for, “hello I’m buying this watch from a guy I never met online and wanted to know what you sold him on record”. Just don’t see it happening, again not saying they don’t exist but it going to be hard to sell the ones without the cards. All the ones at my local ad have had the card say d-blue. I’m in San Diego

[Nairn1980]

My warranty card doesn’t say D-Blue and the receipt only says this, so does mention blue in the dial. Very low-key though.


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[Ad11wrd]

Originally Posted by Ad11wrd

Personally I think Rolex have messed up to give a watch two different model I.Ds for different regions. (No consistency), why for the America market it’s badged as a D-Blue and the UK is a 116660 and unless you have the original receipt with JC on it or a link to Rolex”s serial number bill of materials there’s no clear proof of originality. And yes for a short time it may be difficult to obtain a JC dial but i’m sure you will see them available at some point

https://www.chrono24.ae/rolex/deepse...-id5944889.htm

There you go a deep sea with a copied bezel, shows how much control Rolex havel and nobody has the tool to open the back..............

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by BreezyMan

Yes those dials have a name “vignette” I believe I may be wrong also they did it with a red fading

Oh yes, it's coming back to me now.
Thanks

[aquatimerfla]

Originally Posted by Dirt

It states the dial is "aftermarket".
In other words FAKE.
Not genuine.

This is exactly the point we are making as we do know there are fake D-blue dials out there.

correct. just as there are 'aftermarket' ceramic bezels being fitted onto 116520 to make a ceramic daytona.

tough to stop 'fakes'

[aquatimerfla]

Originally Posted by Ad11wrd

https://www.chrono24.ae/rolex/deepse...-id5944889.htm

There you go a deep sea with a copied bezel, shows how much control Rolex havel and nobody has the tool to open the back..............

again. read. AFTERMARKET dial aka NOT authentic

[aquatimerfla]

Also. Dont get duped by 'Authentic' photos.

When someone orders their DSSD Blue with aftermarket dial and gets dissapointed the seller will say they told you so.

Anyone can post a pic of an authentic model