Thoughts on Resale Value of AP vs Hublot and Comparison in General

[APRolexguy]

Originally Posted by 2nastie

The simplest way put is the history, lineage, and background of a) AP b) the Royal Oak... Unfortunately to me and to many, Hublot has no substance behind their brand and design. They are a modern watch brand that has their key watch derived off the success of another brand and another time piece. Making something look fancy and pricing it high doesn't make it on par with another brand.

Just like a modern company making a super fast modern super car or hyper car doesn't make it equally valuable as a Ferrari. A Ferrari is a Ferrari because of its heritage.

... which makes me kind of disappointed that they partnered up with Hublot. I think they could complement AP a lot. Or even Patek works better for that matter.


However for what Hublot has produced and the overall market reception of the brand from the average consumer, they have done well for themselves... so kudos to that.

EDIT: I do like their innovation with various materials... they should work on everything else. Just IMO haha.

Pagani(founded 1992) and Koenigsegg(founded 1994) are all baby companies and in terms of value, their cars are far more expensive than any modern Ferrari including the La Ferrari hypercar. Not only that, they hold value very well in the used market.

As mentioned before, heritage is overrated when it comes to value. it all boils down to how much people want it and how much of it is in supply.

[APRolexguy]

Most of the arguments against Hublot so far boil down to brand snobbery. The same way Ferrari guys tend to look down on Lamborghini guys; racing heritage, numerous formula one titles, "classier", poser car jabs etc.

All while ignoring the things that matter like how the product makes you feel, aesthetics, stirring the emotions, all things that have nothing to do with which company was founded first or broke what record.

[shafran]

I have owned both Hublot and AP. I know everyone here is a big ap fan. But, they still don't have an in house chrono movement, Hublot does. They have not really innovated the Jules Audemars brand in a few years. I honestly don't see why everyone thinks they are the best. I have had every version of the 42 roo and the 41 roc and two different 15300s. If found them to be scratch magnets and the level of finish on par with many other brands. Patek, Lange, VC, Breguet all seem to have more innovation and better finishing throughout their product line. Yes AP has a few high end innovations, but only in the high end. When I tried to sell my Jules Audemars chrono with a list of 40k, I was offered 14k by everyone. BTW Richard Mille came out after FM had a similar look, so other brands always copy each other. I think I am just tired of the Hublot bashing. They are a company that has come a long way, in house movements, innovative materials and styles. As far as their original wathces having ETA movements, so do most IWC. I could conitinue ,but enough

[WatchingAustin]

Originally Posted by APRolexguy

Pagani(founded 1992) and Koenigsegg(founded 1994) are all baby companies and in terms of value, their cars are far more expensive than any modern Ferrari including the La Ferrari hypercar. Not only that, they hold value very well in the used market.

As mentioned before, heritage is overrated when it comes to value. it all boils down to how much people want it and how much of it is in supply.

Lol you completely ignore innovation which is what gives a brand staying power in any industry. This is why Richard Mille is able to command respect despite length of heritage.

Also Pagani is well known for being the father of automotive carbon fiber and Koeniggseg is developing revolutionary technologies now and previously had the fastest production road car in the world. Their innovation is what makes their cars expensive and sought after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510

[APRolexguy]

Originally Posted by WatchingAustin

Lol you completely ignore innovation which is what gives a brand staying power in any industry. This is why Richard Mille is able to command respect despite length of heritage.

Also Pagani is well known for being the father of automotive carbon fiber and Koeniggseg is developing revolutionary technologies now and previously had the fastest production road car in the world. Their innovation is what makes their cars expensive and sought after.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3cFfM3r510

And how does that counter anything I said? has anything you posted mention heritage? does innovation and "revolutionary technologies" equal heritage? surely those all prove my point that heritage is overrated.

I am confused.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by APRolexguy

Most of the arguments against Hublot so far boil down to brand snobbery. The same way Ferrari guys tend to look down on Lamborghini guys; racing heritage, numerous formula one titles, "classier", poser car jabs etc.

All while ignoring the things that matter like how the product makes you feel, aesthetics, stirring the emotions, all things that have nothing to do with which company was founded first or broke what record.

Exactly. There's so much insecurity around these parts. Enjoy your AP; no need to turn your nose up at Hublot or any other brands. There are plenty of guys in the world with more money and more style and more brand knowledge than anyone here that chose to wear Hublot. Who cares?

To answer the very limited scope of the question posed, though, AP is going to have much better value retention.

[Hairdude1]

I prefer AP over Hublot thats all

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by Rmoor

And I don't believe hublot loses value so to say because of brand heritage because Richard mille has been around for a shorter amount of time and most Richard mille watches hold their value well. I believe it's partly due to production and availability. Hublot has stock and you can find most models easily. Try that with a Richard mille.

Not here in the U.K., an RM 11 retails for 115k - 120k for ti however you can buy a 2 year old one at 'watchfinder' for 75k which means that they probably gave the seller 60k. RM is creating the illusion that their watches are in high demand but 'used' inventory is slow moving.

Personally I don't like Ublot. If I couldn't afford AP I still wouldn't buy one as I don't agree with the way they rip off design cues from AP.



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[skkali168]

Bought that for 13k had to sell for 6k after 2 years. Sucks!!!!! I didn’t mind selling it for 8-9k if I had to take a hit but it too me lots of negotiating to even get 6k


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[2nastie]

Originally Posted by APRolexguy

Pagani(founded 1992) and Koenigsegg(founded 1994) are all baby companies and in terms of value, their cars are far more expensive than any modern Ferrari including the La Ferrari hypercar. Not only that, they hold value very well in the used market.

As mentioned before, heritage is overrated when it comes to value. it all boils down to how much people want it and how much of it is in supply.

You picked both companies that literally produce a handful of cars a year. When you severely restrict the production of a product, perfect it in a manner these company do then end result is what you see with Pagani and Koenigsegg. No different then FP Journe or Laurent Ferrier being a high-end and well respected independent (and micro) company. Both flourish well new and on the pre-owned market.

IMO same cannot be said about Hublot as the discussed example. Both AP and Hublot for that matter would be considered in the larger production level for a top tier comapny. It's the same as Ferrari for super/hyper car (or trending towards a sports car) company amongst their competitors in the same tier. Ferrari isn't the same as a niche/micro/independent brand, but sure throw them in a hat with Lamborghini and Mclaren. There is a very definitive reason why people buy a Ferrari or consider a Ferrari first before the others.

Sure, heritage isn't everything but it goes a long way that drives demand. The whole watch category of "vintage" is derived off of heritage/story/nostalgia first translating into people demanding specified models and then the lack of supply resulting from it.

EDIT: Again, this doesn't discredit Hublot, but the brand is what it is. And watch enthusiasts see that.

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by APRolexguy

Most of the arguments against Hublot so far boil down to brand snobbery. The same way Ferrari guys tend to look down on Lamborghini guys; racing heritage, numerous formula one titles, "classier", poser car jabs etc.

All while ignoring the things that matter like how the product makes you feel, aesthetics, stirring the emotions, all things that have nothing to do with which company was founded first or broke what record.

Sure you can call it brand snobbery. Almost all consumer items are brand recognition and "snobbery". Brand name vs no name brand. Brand legacy vs. the new guy on the block.

But if a true enthusiast researches and understands the brand. That so-called snobbery makes a bit more sense. It takes time to build your own brand (your legacy) vs. piggy backing off the success of others and adding their own shade of lipstick.

[SMD]

If you like Hublot buy one. And if a few more people agree with the people who like Hublot maybe they could get their own sub forum so this one doesn't have to keep having these AP v. Hublot conversations.

[jdkrut]

There was no way this post wasn't going to generate controversy. This is an AP forum for goodness sake. There are absolute similarities between the watches; but they have different characters as well. My collection includes a number of APs and I have owned Hublot as well. One interesting point is that, as an AP customer, I received a survey from AP about five years ago. A lot of the questions on the survey asked for the customer to compare AP to Hublot and Patek. I think that says something about where AP saw itself then and where it aspired to be. Having written all of that, this is my feeling about the brands. AP is much higher end. It is haute horologerie. The finishing on its watches cannot be compared to Hublot -- it is far finer. AP watches are much rarer and more exclusive. Hublot watches tend to follow in some respects, but they lead in others too. Yes, the watches are derivative of other brands, but there is some innovation with respect to the All-Black watch, new materials, and the modular case construction. Hublot is constantly innovating and sometimes they just hit it right with models that are really cool -- and this "cool" -- all ceramic cases, skeleton movements, etc., all comes at a much lower price than one would pay for an AP with these feature (but the AP with these features will be much rarer and have much better finishing). Hublots also tend to be much less delicate and more wearable than AP. Anecdotally, one of the very few watches that I ever sold that actually appreciated after I sold it was an AP. On the other hand, I have never lost that much owning a Hublot, mainly because what I bought was heavily discounted at the time of purchase. But they same goes for many ordinary APs as well. Pay retail for a white dial 15400 and you will lose about as much as you lose on a Big Bang that you bought at retail.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by jdkrut

There was no way this post wasn't going to generate controversy. This is an AP forum for goodness sake. There are absolute similarities between the watches; but they have different characters as well. My collection includes a number of APs and I have owned Hublot as well. One interesting point is that, as an AP customer, I received a survey from AP about five years ago. A lot of the questions on the survey asked for the customer to compare AP to Hublot and Patek. I think that says something about where AP saw itself then and where it aspired to be. Having written all of that, this is my feeling about the brands. AP is much higher end. It is haute horologerie. The finishing on its watches cannot be compared to Hublot -- it is far finer. AP watches are much rarer and more exclusive. Hublot watches tend to follow in some respects, but they lead in others too. Yes, the watches are derivative of other brands, but there is some innovation with respect to the All-Black watch, new materials, and the modular case construction. Hublot is constantly innovating and sometimes they just hit it right with models that are really cool -- and this "cool" -- all ceramic cases, skeleton movements, etc., all comes at a much lower price than one would pay for an AP with these feature (but the AP with these features will be much rarer and have much better finishing). Hublots also tend to be much less delicate and more wearable than AP. Anecdotally, one of the very few watches that I ever sold that actually appreciated after I sold it was an AP. On the other hand, I have never lost that much owning a Hublot, mainly because what I bought was heavily discounted at the time of purchase. But they same goes for many ordinary APs as well. Pay retail for a white dial 15400 and you will lose about as much as you lose on a Big Bang that you bought at retail.

In UK you would lose up to 20% on the white 400, as opposed to 50% on the BB.

[911Turbo]

Although I like the Big Bang, I've very happy with my SS Diver!

[justdate]

I was shocked at how low quality the Hublot watches I looked at were given the price tag.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by AK797

In UK you would lose up to 20% on the white 400, as opposed to 50% on the BB.

In the US something has changed. 15400 black dial is now selling at list by DAVIDSW.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by SMD

In the US something has changed. 15400 black dial is now selling at list by DAVIDSW.

Prices are moving up on many popular models across many brands now, including even Lange and their new 1815 chrono being released at a deliberately slow level as seems to be the way now. You could almost think they all got together in a dark room to replicate the Daytona machine. What's next, a hard to get Breitling selling at a premium?

[Willygallardo]

comparing a ferrari to a ferrari kit car lol

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by AK797

Prices are moving up on many popular models across many brands now, including even Lange and their new 1815 chrono being released at a deliberately slow level as seems to be the way now. You could almost think they all got together in a dark room to replicate the Daytona machine. What's next, a hard to get Breitling selling at a premium?

Could be prophetic with the company and thus leaderships changing hands.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Could be prophetic with the company and thus leaderships changing hands.

I could run the marketing department there.

Step 1: cut ties with travolta.

Step 2: sign Ryan gosling etc etc

[BawlaDK]

I have owned several AP's and Hublots.... While finishing on AP might be better, the fit of a Big Bang is one of the best I have experienced. The only AP that can match is a 15202 in terms of comfort. Yes the first Big Bangs had modified 7750's in them, but the new Unico movement is KILLER.... Anyone who has operated the pushers on one of the new Big Bangs will tell you it is one of the smoothest ever produced... Hell even my PP 5960 cant even match it....
I like Hublot - And I will most certainly own one again... The Meca-10 for example... Sick watch

[jdkrut]

When I wrote, I was assuming a 30% discount on a new Big Bang. That evens up the playing field a bit. Having said all of that, OF COURSE AP is a much finer timepiece. But a Big Bang is a much more durable everyday watch, so there is room for both.

[jdkrut]

One other point that BawlaDK made, that I will echo. The chrono on the Unico (which is in house) is a lot nicer than the chrono on the ROO (which is a module from Dubois Duprez). Not that in house is everything, but the ROO isn't even an integrated chrono. If I had to buy a ROO or a BB Unico, of course I would buy the ROO. However, I still think the BB is a fun watch.

[Helmi]

My first watch was hublot and it is no longer here, my personal problems with hublot are:

1- very new brand, so cannot be compared with brands that are 100s of years of age. The brand is fine but lacks the heritage of something like AP or Pp or rolex.
2- most the watches are too big for my taste
3- the models using ETA movements are over priced and poorly executed
4- the brand always associated with rappers and big athletes. Nothing wrong with that but for me I don't like it.
5- most of their designs are copying iconic designs from other brands, albeit beautiful but I feel lack innovation on the design front
6- too many special editions making them not special at all
7- very terrible resale value

On the positive side, they disrupted the industry with innovation on materials use such as rubber, sapphire and special gold/titanium alloys and I personally love their easy strap release system.

AP for me cannot be compared with hublot (despite looking same) but it is on a different league brand-wise, movements-wise...etc.

Edit: my hublot was the unico ferrari and chronograph on it was amazing, so that is another positive but I never needed or used it so it was not a point of consideration for me. I sold it purely because it was too big that I could not wear it at all. But I have to admit it was an impulse purchase because I loved the looks and love ferrari brand

[V25V]

AP resale is so much better. Hublot's just plummet.

[yachty 1]

Originally Posted by BawlaDK

I have owned several AP's and Hublots.... While finishing on AP might be better, the fit of a Big Bang is one of the best I have experienced. The only AP that can match is a 15202 in terms of comfort. Yes the first Big Bangs had modified 7750's in them, but the new Unico movement is KILLER.... Anyone who has operated the pushers on one of the new Big Bangs will tell you it is one of the smoothest ever produced... Hell even my PP 5960 cant even match it....
I like Hublot - And I will most certainly own one again... The Meca-10 for example... Sick watch

I have owned both and must say I was impressed with Hublot after care and first to give 5 year warranty. Although I prefer AP they are definitely a company here to stay. Also the meca-10 is stunning you are right.

[2Redbulls]

Biver answers the issue here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvLhJamAjAs

[yachty 1]

Originally Posted by 2Redbulls

Biver answers the issue here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvLhJamAjAs

Great video. Thanks for sharing

[benlee]

My biggest gripe with Hublot are those non-aligned screws. But overall, I prefer the look of AP RO/ROO.