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Old 28 October 2019, 03:45 AM   #1
DoctorA
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Why buy a Seiko or a grand Seiko?

I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.

Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions

1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?
2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?
3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?
4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?

I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me
Thank you!
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Old 28 October 2019, 04:39 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.

Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions

1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?
2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?
3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?
4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?

I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me
Thank you!
Good questions.

First, as a collector, everyone dare I say expands their view beyond Swiss 'badge' shopping because you've reached a plateau. Even the Swiss until death collectors venture into German and Japanese brands because - why not? We all touch beautiful German and Japanese things in many other ways during our lifetimes so why not watches?

To me, GS' story hits home. The competition between King Seiko and Grand Seiko to see who could do better and the winner gets to stay in business. To GS being so good at the Swiss timing game that they were effectively banned from competing.

Or the Saxon region in Germany where watches are still made by hand and with each village having a home team, producing watches with even greater detail than the Swiss in many respects, but without the marketing dollars.

What we're seeing is grass roots enthusiasm with products which are equal or better than the ones with the loudest voices.

Nothing wrong with Omega and Rolexes, I own a few, but there's a lot more to watches in my opinion.

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Old 28 October 2019, 04:52 AM   #3
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Sbga387 seems like a good way to go for you. I prefer Seiko over grand Seiko most of the time for no other reason than Seiko is just a little more fun design wise. Spring drive is a good way to go if you r looking for uniqueness in a collection. What it brings to the table is nuts accuracy.
Look at new “season” grand Seikos (winter and spring are SD). Seiko LX line. SBGE GMTs.
Also new lions mane and Godzilla GS.
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Old 28 October 2019, 04:53 AM   #4
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Anyone that views “made in Japan” as inferior is ignorant. Plain and simple
And sorry. Refuse to comment on value retention.
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Old 28 October 2019, 04:58 AM   #5
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Btw, I have a hulk, blnr, expl ii, and black Daytona C. Most of the time you’ll find a Seiko on my wrist.
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Old 28 October 2019, 05:01 AM   #6
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Why buy a Seiko or a grand Seiko?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.



Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions



1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?

2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?

3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?

4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?



I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me

Thank you!


Like you, I have a nice Rolex collection and I also have some higher end pieces. But, man, seiko and GS are just so fun and different . Seiko has so many diff watches at accessible prices and are work horses that will last forever. Their design style is different and clearly Seiko. Grand Seiko is on a whole different level , with remarkable case finishing and design, and crazy unique dials paired with markers and hands that shine like diamonds due to the Japanese polishing. The average person may not get why a Seiko , albeit a GS, is so expensive but the owner and watch enthusiast knows it’s quality and value. With regard to value retention, they are going to be like most other non-rolex non-Patek brands , however the limited editions will hold value better. I bought the 387 at a small discount from an AD and sold it almost year later without losing. I just didn’t bond w the highly reflective baby blue dial. Would decide between a spring drive or classic hi-beat. For unique dials, look at the seasons series avail at US boutiques (I just picked up a winter). Bottom line, I don’t think you will regret getting a GS.


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Old 28 October 2019, 06:29 AM   #7
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Honestly the fact that you even need to raise these questions tells me you aren’t ready. Don’t worry GS is a niche brand and isn’t for everyone in the way that Rolex is.
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Old 28 October 2019, 06:56 AM   #8
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Honestly the fact that you even need to raise these questions tells me you aren’t ready. Don’t worry GS is a niche brand and isn’t for everyone in the way that Rolex is.
It’s not a matter of readiness, I’m seeking opinions, a good place to start. I’m sure your appreciation to the brand didn’t start from no where and I’m sure you did your homework before getting your first Seiko. Niche or not niche, it’s not a “private club”. I am seeking input as I am growing to really love the details and craftsmanship on the GS especially and the other responses have been super helpful in confirming what I thought of the brand
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Old 28 October 2019, 08:45 PM   #9
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It’s not a matter of readiness, I’m seeking opinions, a good place to start. I’m sure your appreciation to the brand didn’t start from no where and I’m sure you did your homework before getting your first Seiko. Niche or not niche, it’s not a “private club”. I am seeking input as I am growing to really love the details and craftsmanship on the GS especially and the other responses have been super helpful in confirming what I thought of the brand
£ for £ or $ for $, in terms of attention to detail, movement finishing & overall quality of construction a GS is objectively a better watch than a Rolex.

In terms of value retention, GS falls, largely because for most the perception is the other way around, and of course the hype and demand that currently surrounds Rolex.

Take your time, explore the brand and most of all enjoy the process.

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Old 28 October 2019, 10:00 PM   #10
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£ for £ or $ for $, in terms of attention to detail, movement finishing & overall quality of construction a GS is objectively a better watch than a Rolex.

In terms of value retention, GS falls, largely because for most the perception is the other way around, and of course the hype and demand that currently surrounds Rolex.


This sums it up. Ask yourself why you buy watches, then make your decision.
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Old 28 October 2019, 06:42 AM   #11
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As a collector with Rolexes as well as holy trinity watches that cost 7-10 times a Rolex, my opinion is GS dials are arguable the best in the world.

If you are a rolex collector - spring drive and hi-intensity titanium are two very strong parts of GS that you will appreciate. A snowflake SGBA211 or one of the newer 4 seasons will be an excellent choice. So will a the 387 since it comes with strap options too.
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Old 28 October 2019, 07:41 AM   #12
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As a collector with Rolexes as well as holy trinity watches that cost 7-10 times a Rolex, my opinion is GS dials are arguable the best in the world.

If you are a rolex collector - spring drive and hi-intensity titanium are two very strong parts of GS that you will appreciate. A snowflake SGBA211 or one of the newer 4 seasons will be an excellent choice. So will a the 387 since it comes with strap options too.
^ are all great first choices. If I had to pare my GS collection down to one piece, making sure that my only piece had the Spring Drive movement would be a non-negotiable. Dial design would be a close second, and the SBGA387, SBGA211, SBGY003 (manual wind Spring Drive), or the new pink spring SBGA413 (not limited, but US-only) certainly fit the bill for me.

Other pieces you might want to consider would be some of their limited edition Hi-Beats like the new SBGH269 or older SBGJ227 "peacock".

Most of the ones I've called out are limited editions; however, there are plenty of others that have great dials and designs that might speak to you. If it matters to you, the LEs tend to do better in terms of value retention.
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Old 28 October 2019, 07:51 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.

Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions

1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?
2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?
3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?
4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?

I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me
Thank you!
One thing to note about Japanese culture and if you've been to Japan is the deep profound respect they have for 1) Work ethic, 2) Nature, 3) doing things the right way (perfection), no excuses. This culture is represented in their food and handcrafts where a single chef or artisan could spend their lifetime perfecting a single dish or product. Any magnification of a GS dial will show how far ahead they are compared to most mid-tier luxury swiss brands.

Given this understanding and the technical specifications of the watches, one can actually argue that Grand Seiko (with its Zaratsu finishing and hand crafted dials etc.) are superior in every objective measure within the price bracket of $3000-$8000.

The level of care and finesse is so high. Owning a GS is an experience I cannot understate. The eerie sweep of a spring drive second hands is perfection incarnate.

Where GS suffers are twofold #1 - Marketing and its related branding, and #2 when perfection is so high; it can get sterile. This is why getting a LE watch or one that represents certain aspects of japanese handcraft/culture is paramount imho.

Last note - Many folks start with Rolex and Omega and if they have the funds they make its way up the holy trinity. I can tell you that the level of dialwork on the SBGA211 and SBGA 413 to me is equivalent to that of my 5170P, sans diamonds of course. :)

Said another way, many Patek collectors appreciate GS for what it is.

I personally (for various reasons) have sold around 20+ GS watches to various forum members; this has given me an interesting perspective of the buyers of a GS watch.

Around 20-30% of GS watch buyers may be buying their first luxury watch and they don't want the brand recognition of a Rolex or Omega - yet they want something of the highest possible quality for that price. Many are engineers that profoundly respect the history and the technical superiority of the GS movements and dials and cases.

Around 40% of the GS buyers I have sold to have vast collections. Many own Pateks and they also have Rolexes. I sold a SBGA 415 to a collector yesterday with over 30 watches with a collection probably worth over a million.

The remaining 20-30% are usually folks that own one or more Rolexes and they are literally sick of getting a Submariner in different colors and metals. Face it, a GMT is a sub with an extra hand and different bezel. Hulk is a sub with a green bezel and dial :)
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Old 28 October 2019, 10:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.



Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions



1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?

2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?

3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?

4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?



I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me

Thank you!


1., 2. There are tons of options. It’s hard to make recommendations. I wouldn’t be in a hurry. Spend a few weeks or months of discovery. If you buy the first one you think ‘fits’ your collection, chances are, in the following months, you will come upon another...

3. Obviously, don’t go in with Rolex expectations. Buy used, or new with a discount. It’s not hard to do. You won’t get crushed, and can easily retain value. LE’s are generally pretty safe.

4. The idea that Japanese watches are lesser than Swiss is strange to me. I would agree that it is ignorance. The Swiss watch industry seems very protective of their reputation, and that’s fine. But the history of GS/King Seiko in the Swiss Chronometry trials speaks volumes. The quality of finishing and engineering at GS in Japan is definitely on the same playing field as the Swiss, and some would argue better. I only have first hand experience with Tudor and Rolex, so I’ll let others have that debate.


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Old 28 October 2019, 10:59 AM   #15
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I think something with the 44GS case or the 62gs cases is a great way to go. The 44GS has a high mirror finish and some chunky goodness to it that just speaks to me personally. The new 4 seasons US only watches are in the 62 GS case style, which to me is a sexy no bezel case that is unique for sure. They are all really cool though. I own this thing
. The sbge249 timeless limited edition. And as you can see the thing is flawless. But if you want some higher end Seiko’s that will hold their value you can go for the reissue diver trilogy which I promise are on par with GS in every aspect. But to echo all the others, seiko is just so dang fun because they have something for everyone. Like the SJE073 that is super thin and great on the wrist with a great dial: this thing is fantastic to wear with the high polish zuratsu finishing of GS. Anyways, seiko has pulled me away almost completely away from Rolex. I’ve a Datejust left in my collection, and that’s it.


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Old 28 October 2019, 11:06 AM   #16
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Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.



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Old 29 October 2019, 02:50 AM   #17
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Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.



That GMT is an absolute stunner!! Unfortunately it looked tiny on my 7.6” wrist
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Old 29 October 2019, 06:32 AM   #18
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That GMT is an absolute stunner!! Unfortunately it looked tiny on my 7.6” wrist


Then there are the new quartz GMT’s that some mockingly declare is an Explorer copy. There are absolutely similarities, but the sparkle and shine from the dial indexes and hands make an Explorer look boring in comparison.

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Old 19 November 2019, 01:15 PM   #19
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Then there are the new quartz GMT’s that some mockingly declare is an Explorer copy. There are absolutely similarities, but the sparkle and shine from the dial indexes and hands make an Explorer look boring in comparison.

I absolutely love this model.

My only concern which might be due to lack of knowledge is Ive heard that they only promise to keep parts for a limited period of time? If you want to hand down the piece I wouldn't be buying GS
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Old 28 November 2019, 11:46 PM   #20
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I absolutely love this model.



My only concern which might be due to lack of knowledge is Ive heard that they only promise to keep parts for a limited period of time? If you want to hand down the piece I wouldn't be buying GS


Where did you here this?

As far as I understand, their policy on parts are not much different than other luxury watch companies.

I’m pretty sure there are plenty of vintage grand seiko’s out there ticking away, and have been serviced somehow. You may even see them here on the forums.

A lot of people say a lot of things.
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Old 11 November 2019, 03:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by MSchu View Post
Why collect a Seiko/Grand Seiko... because the brand is a very unique entity/manufacturer with a very rabid following and seiko has a different design ethstetic that is based in the Japanese design ideology.

State of the art fully regulated quartz, proprietary electro-mechanical 'Spring Drive', beautifully finished display cased '9s' 28.8 bpm automatics and a really wonderful hi-beat... there are many to choose from at relatively affordable pricing.

And then there is the finishing... all hand built/assembled and all hand finished to an extremely high level.

Expect some depreciation unless you buy used... and I attribute that to the fact they they make to many offerings (not to many watches).

The three eight seven is a very nice choice if you can live with titainium... and these spring drive Ti's are VERY lite. That model comes on the market more often than the 500 pieces would suggest, but those who list them are steadfast in what they want for them.

The best deal in Grand Seiko for me personally is the SBGM231... this gmt complicated 9s movement automatic in stainless steel is absooutely stunning in person and mine ran an extremely accurate +1day until the day I sold it. It's got a great cream dial with hand finished applied indices and a heat blued gmt hand... stunning for about 3.5k otd.




Two of my favorite watches right there. I am wearing my Air-King as I type and the GS SBGM231 is high on list of a dressy watch. Great pictures. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 28 October 2019, 01:05 PM   #22
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Always love hearing about a Rolex guy willing to test the water with GS, believe me you will be glad you did. GS watches are absolutely gorgeous and they carry the history and extremely accurate movement with it, I would definitely put them on par with the best Swiss watches without a doubt.

Anyways, my first was the SBGE249. Very limited to 250pcs for the US market only through timelessluxury in Texas. Not sure if they have any left though.
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Old 28 October 2019, 10:13 PM   #23
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1- What are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?
Answer: A whole new way of building a watch. The Spring drive is fascinating (as you noted) and their attention to detail with dauphine hands that all follow the gramercy of design is ridic.

2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?
Thoughts: sbga211g (white snowflake), also, that burgandy/wood stain sbgh269 is beautiful in person.

3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?
Answer: Depends on the model. The white snowflake does retain its value fairly well. It doesnt gain value like a Rolex, but it doesnt lose half its value when you take it off the lot.

4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?
Answer: No, they are not second class. In fact, back in 1968, GS took 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th in the chronometer trials, losing the top 3 spots to the new Quartz watches that were introduced then. After that the Swiss were a bit hurt over their stinging loss and stopped the trials. As for today the GS Spring Drive will maintain better time than a Swiss watch.

Buy with confidence and enjoy the watch!
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Old 28 October 2019, 10:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by DoctorA View Post
I’m a rolex guy, I’ve been very fortunate to acquire and am keeping pretty much all the rolex Ss “hot” watches.

Recently I am trying to include pieces from other watch makers and managed to acquire my first omega speedmaster and have been intrigued by the case design, the attention to details and spring drive mechanism in GS as well as the rugged feel of Seiko.................. but here’re my questions

1- with a big rolex collection, what are areas that Seiko/GS fill and rolex doesn’t?
2- I’m more leaning towards a GS, especially the US exclusive SBGA387, which model other than that one would you suggest?
3- I never buy my watches as investment but I like for my watches to retain or gain some value. Out of the lineup, which ones are more likely to follow that?
4- finally as a “made in Japan” watch which by some is viewed as a “second class” to “Swiss made” is that true to the watch quality and future value as well?

I know it’s a loaded post with lots of questions but I will truly appreciate any insight as I start to learn more about a totally new watch lineup for me
Thank you!
I will compare Rolex to GS instead of Seiko since Seiko can't really be compared fairly to Rolex as they are in vastly different calibre and price bracket.

1) More fun to wear, more understated in most cases. Dial size finishing, Grand Seiko is superior to Rolex. Convinced yourself by examining the dial under a loupe. In terms of accuracy, the Springdrive vastly outperform any Rolex.

2) Many great choices in GS range. Hard to make a concrete recommendation. Go with what sings to you.

3) GS doesn't have the resale cache of Rolex. For value retention, perhaps the sub 500 pieces LEs and the classic GS Snowflake might do better than others.

4) Anyone who make this allegation either knows nothing about horology or are incredibly biased.

And for me, the greatest advantage of buying Grand Seiko is that they are mostly readily available, and I don't have to play AD games or listening to their sickening BS in order to get a watch. I have one Rolex and 5 GS now in my collection and many many Seikos, along with my other watches.
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Old 28 October 2019, 11:10 PM   #25
Old Expat Beast
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Even in the 1960s, Seiko was years ahead of Rolex with things like hi-beat movements (36,000 and 28,000 bph), hacking movements and quickset day and dates, and the GS dial and hand finishing was better than Rolex in those days, too, IMO.
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Old 28 October 2019, 11:57 PM   #26
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Great thread ...Thanks for all the responses. Seiko forum definitely has my attention these days!
Cheers!
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Old 29 October 2019, 12:20 AM   #27
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I think spring drive comparisons to autos are apples/oranges.

A well regulated auto can take advantage of resting positions overnight to negate loss/gains while wearing through the day. Spring drive will be consistent regardless of positioning. Spring drive error, as small as it may be, will (short of hacking the seconds) accumulate no matter what you do.

I’m not arguing one over the other, just that they are different things. I personally enjoy chasing the zero offset. Spring drive is definitely more set and forget reliable/consistent.


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Old 29 October 2019, 12:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jostack View Post
I think spring drive comparisons to autos are apples/oranges.

A well regulated auto can take advantage of resting positions overnight to negate loss/gains while wearing through the day. Spring drive will be consistent regardless of positioning. Spring drive error, as small as it may be, will (short of hacking the seconds) accumulate no matter what you do.

I’m not arguing one over the other, just that they are different things. I personally enjoy chasing the zero offset. Spring drive is definitely more set and forget reliable/consistent.


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Grand Seiko makes automatic watches too, and they are arguably better watches than Rolex.
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Old 29 October 2019, 12:49 AM   #29
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Why buy a Seiko or a grand Seiko?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickettt View Post
Grand Seiko makes automatic watches too, and they are arguably better watches than Rolex.


Preaching to the choir.

But arguably is not the same as definitively.

I’ve owned a spring drive and now own a hi-beat, and an HAQ. The hi-beat runs slightly fast, making overnight regulation a little challenging. Once I get a few scratches, I’ll tweak it a little. The HAQ is running at maybe 0.2s offset after more than 2 months. I say maybe because, well, when we are talking about such a small offset, it is hard to measure accurately.


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Old 29 October 2019, 12:55 AM   #30
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Grand Seiko makes automatic watches too, and they are arguably better watches than Rolex.
I wouldn't go that far.

Rolexes are tanks supreme and designed for a lifetime of wear with pretty much no service.

GS = Dial and case finish and their use of titanium and ceramics are awesome.

With Rolex, you have supreme durability, maximum utility, classic style with timeless design. Turning a Rolex Submariner 116610 bezel and hearing the click is amazing. Also the most recognized and respected brand for the masses. In a balanced scorecard fight across the full landscape, my opinion is Rolex is still king between $7 and $12k.

At the $4-6k range I daresay GS could win, but you could get an explorer or naked 14060 at that range too and it would be a fight to the finish. At that range I think the snowflake could beat quite a few watches in the Rolex lineup.
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