Canadian WWII era Rolex Victory - original strap design search

[Fathertime89]

I just purchased my first Rolex, a Canadian vintage WWII era Rolex Victory. I sent it to an authorized dealer who is forwarding it to Toronto for restoration back into working order. They stopped making replacement parts decades ago and they don’t seem keen on searching back to what the original design was so here I am asking for help.

I’m seeking any guidance on the look of the original strap and crown which are missing and I’d like to replicate.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks

[ROGERB]

Bit of a shot across the Bow but any old catalog shots from this era show on a tapering leather grain strap with stitching up the sides and your basic pin buckle
R

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by ROGERB

Bit of a shot across the Bow but any old catalog shots from this era show on a tapering leather grain strap with stitching up the sides and your basic pin buckle
R

Do you have a screenshot or link? Thanks

[Gecko10]

I don't know what was original, but I have a military style, distressed OD canvas band on mine.
Barton Watchbands is a good place to start. Martuleather.com has some nice looking vintage distressed straps.

Great first purchase IMHO!!

[Ashton_Horologist]

I am not sure what your local AD told you but the Rolex service center in Toronto won't touch this watch. It's far too old for them to restore.

They may offer to send it to Switzerland for a restoration. I would be very careful and make sure you quiz your AD on where they are sending it, who is doing the work, etc.

You would be surprised sometimes. There aren't too many people around who will restore this correctly.

Ashton

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Ashton_Horologist

I am not sure what your local AD told you but the Rolex service center in Toronto won't touch this watch. It's far too old for them to restore.

They may offer to send it to Switzerland for a restoration. I would be very careful and make sure you quiz your AD on where they are sending it, who is doing the work, etc.

You would be surprised sometimes. There aren't too many people around who will restore this correctly.

Ashton

They were open about that. They said Rolex only carries replacement parts for usually 20 years back or newer. Perhaps repair back to working order would have been a better wording. I know any replacement parts will be aftermarket or custom and it may be contracted out. Local AD just facilitated sending it away for me to a place they recommend.

[Gecko10]

Mine, fortunatly works great, but just in case, who in Toronto is doing restoration on these? Thanks

[Old Expat Beast]

Only rough illustrations, not photos, but here's a page from a WWII Rolex pamphlet featuring the Victory line.

[Ashton_Horologist]

Where are they sending it?

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Gecko10

Mine, fortunatly works great, but just in case, who in Toronto is doing restoration on these? Thanks

Originally Posted by Ashton_Horologist

Where are they sending it?

I’ll ask them the name of the company they sent it to when I talk to them again next week about strap choice.

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Only rough illustrations, not photos, but here's a page from a WWII Rolex pamphlet featuring the Victory line.

Thank you! I really appreciate this lead. I’m going to assume that is brown leather.

[Nick9]

I'm going to offer a couple of guesses, and happy to be contradicted if others want to weigh in.

It's likely a cal 59 movement. If so, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding parts. There are a lot of dead cal 59s in watchmakers' stashes. In Canada, where lots of these were sold in the 1940s.

The crown is likely to be the one marked "Brevet" with the + sign, but I've seen others on those old Rolex lines. Same comment on availability.

Hope that helps. If it is cal 59 (find out?), getting it running should not come with a big bill for parts.

Good luck with it.

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Nick9

I'm going to offer a couple of guesses, and happy to be contradicted if others want to weigh in.

It's likely a cal 59 movement. If so, you shouldn't have too much trouble finding parts. There are a lot of dead cal 59s in watchmakers' stashes. In Canada, where lots of these were sold in the 1940s.

The crown is likely to be the one marked "Brevet" with the + sign, but I've seen others on those old Rolex lines. Same comment on availability.

Hope that helps. If it is cal 59 (find out?), getting it running should not come with a big bill for parts.

Good luck with it.

Thanks for replying. I haven’t seen inside yet but it was advertised as caliber 59 by the seller so I think thats a safe assumption. I’ve read the opposite that original parts are near impossible to find or very likely falsely advertised which makes sense for an 80 year old watch. I don’t expect an outrageous parts bill but I know any part replaced will be aftermarket or replica.

I’ve got the design for the original strap now, do you know if there were different colour options?

[Ashton_Horologist]

The parts won’t be aftermarket. There are plenty of caliber 59 parts around. The caliber 59 is not a Rolex caliber but an FHF 30, with some upgrades. Shock protection for some models, stamped bridges, etc.

Most of the parts should be able to be salvaged. The pivots can be polished, bridges re-bushes, etc.

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Ashton_Horologist

The parts won’t be aftermarket. There are plenty of caliber 59 parts around. The caliber 59 is not a Rolex caliber but an FHF 30, with some upgrades. Shock protection for some models, stamped bridges, etc.

Most of the parts should be able to be salvaged. The pivots can be polished, bridges re-bushes, etc.

That’s a good point about the movement. I’ll try to get better first hand info about my options from the person who will be repairing it and less from the AD which are really mostly sales reps. Thanks for the info.

[ROGERB]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Only rough illustrations, not photos, but here's a page from a WWII Rolex pamphlet featuring the Victory line.

Well done Adam! that's one of the ads I was trying to find

[Gecko10]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Only rough illustrations, not photos, but here's a page from a WWII Rolex pamphlet featuring the Victory line.

Thank you very much, sir.

[Fathertime89]

I really appreciate all the help here and the messages I’ve received.

To update those interested,

The AD said the company they contract out too isn’t open to the public so they facilitate the entire exchange but I won’t be able to contact any of the technicians directly. I mentioned about the caliber 59 parts availability and he said he’d inquire about that specifically but typically they try for as many original parts as they can within reason. I asked about liability since I won’t know who actually worked on it, he said with vintage watches if they open it and damage occurs, they accept no fault. However, he did say upon it’s return there is a one year guarantee backed by and facilitated by the AD, not the company who does repairs.

Thoughts?

[Vlad]

Nice watch. Yes, the caliber should be type 59 and parts can easily be found. I would check the dial, as I have my doubts about it. Hands also look like they were replaced at some point. But after restoration, it can be a very nice little watch. Try to find original parts (crown, dial, hands). Do not send it to Rolex - too old for regular service and does not worth enough for 'heritage department'

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Vlad

Nice watch. Yes, the caliber should be type 59 and parts can easily be found. I would check the dial, as I have my doubts about it. Hands also look like they were replaced at some point. But after restoration, it can be a very nice little watch. Try to find original parts (crown, dial, hands). Do not send it to Rolex - too old for regular service and does not worth enough for 'heritage department'

You’ll read above that a Rolex AD already has it and that it’s being sent to a private company they contract vintage to, not a heritage department.

Do you have one of these watches?

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Fathertime89

Do you have one of these watches?

Good catch calling me on this one. I stand corrected. If it's a Rolex, then it's most likely (like 99+%) is not Type 59, as Type 59 was used in the lower priced watches - Oysters, Tudors, Marconi, etc.

As far as me having one of these - no, not exactly a Victory model. However I do have some boy size manual models from that time frame: 2691, 4220, 3121, 6221, 1069, 2784, 3136, 3478, etc.

Looking at the advertisement, I definitively do not have one like yours, as all of mine are screw down/waterproof models - and this one is not. As such, I don't even know what crown Rolex would have used on that model.

I would love to see better pictures of your watch

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Vlad

Good catch calling me on this one. I stand corrected. If it's a Rolex, then it's most likely (like 99+%) is not Type 59, as Type 59 was used in the lower priced watches - Oysters, Tudors, Marconi, etc.

As far as me having one of these - no, not exactly a Victory model. However I do have some boy size manual models from that time frame: 2691, 4220, 3121, 6221, 1069, 2784, 3136, 3478, etc.

Looking at the advertisement, I definitively do not have one like yours, as all of mine are screw down/waterproof models - and this one is not. As such, I don't even know what crown Rolex would have used on that model.

I would love to see better pictures of your watch

I appreciate your reply, you may not have this one but sounds like you have quite the collection and are certainly more familiar with this era for Rolex than myself. Here are some more pictures, all I took before sending it off for a quote:

[Nick9]

I have read that a lot of these models of Rolex watches were bought by families and given to Canadian servicemen headed overseas for WW2. I have seen some with engravings of individual soldiers (some done by hand).

So, I'm wondering if the engraving on the back refers to the military. Not my field, but wondering....

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Nick9

I have read that a lot of these models of Rolex watches were bought by families and given to Canadian servicemen headed overseas for WW2. I have seen some with engravings of individual soldiers (some done by hand).

So, I'm wondering if the engraving on the back refers to the military. Not my field, but wondering....

You pretty much nailed it, I’m still not sure of the numbers meaning but the initials were engraved (or more likely carved in) by the original owner who was a Canadian soldier that bought it prior to deploying to Germany for WWII. I was told some time prior to 1941 by the original owners grandson who was clearing his grandfathers estate and sold it to me.

So the story goes anyways.

[MILGAUSS88]

Most likely had an unpadded brown strap made out of a single piece of leather.
I find some watches from that era with the original strap occasionally.

Original straps would be unusable at this point.

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Most likely had an unpadded brown strap made out of a single piece of leather.
I find some watches from that era with the original strap occasionally.

Original straps would be unusable at this point.

Thanks for the reply! With Old Expat Beast’s illustrations that were shared and your description of material details I should be able to find one out there that’s very close to how the original would have looked and wore on the wrist. Appreciate the help.

[ROGERB]

Hands look like they may have come off a Oyster lipton from the same era. Betting on a third party case as lugs from the side view seem thicker than usual and no lug holes. Case back has different style of closure than standard for Rolex. Plus looks like permanent bars installed with brass runners for maybe nylon style strap?

R

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by ROGERB

Hands look like they may have come off a Oyster lipton from the same era. Betting on a third party case as lugs from the side view seem thicker than usual and no lug holes. Case back has different style of closure than standard for Rolex. Plus looks like permanent bars installed with brass runners for maybe nylon style strap?

R

Sounds like a Frankenstein watch. I’ll manage my expectations.

[Nick9]

Originally Posted by Fathertime89

Sounds like a Frankenstein watch. I’ll manage my expectations.

Your watch is completely correct. There were variations in hands, casebacks, cases with and without lug holes, etc.

It has solid provenance as well. Nice collectable. Enjoy!

[Fathertime89]

Originally Posted by Nick9

Your watch is completely correct. There were variations in hands, casebacks, cases with and without lug holes, etc.

It has solid provenance as well. Nice collectable. Enjoy!

Thank you. However it turns out, I'll be a proud owner.