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Old 4 October 2021, 08:13 AM   #61
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my point is people hate greys now because of premiums but if you search posts from 2017 and before, everyone told people to go grey instead of ADs. now it's flipped and greys are the devil because suddenly it's more expensive that way. just shows a lot of people are selfish and only care about what benefits them today because most of these new members would flood to greys if they had better deals than ADs

Nah. As the OP so eloquently put it, “20+ BLNRs” the greys are hoarding watches and clearly falsely inflating the prices of watches. Most of those inflated watches are traded amongst themselves. But every once in awhile they find that rich buyer(not wealthy but rich) with more money than sense and offload at the inflated price.

I know you love sucking down the Grey Kool aid (and if allowed I’d used another phrase) but what does the actions of what greys offered 10 years ago have to do with today? Nothing. They evolved with the times and price gauge Bc the hobby and a few kool aid suckers like yourself allow it for good customer service
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Old 4 October 2021, 08:17 AM   #62
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I mean people talk about grays selling watches below MSRP in the past and I have witnessed it, but who cares what it was like back then. It’s not like they weren’t making profits even selling it below MSRP. It just means they were getting those watches even cheaper. Don’t make it sound like they were the Robin Hoods back in the day of discounts.
So you are mad that they are making profits?

Lots of secondary markets. Car market today is on fire.

Middle men in endless markets.
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Old 4 October 2021, 08:41 AM   #63
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So you are mad that they are making profits?

Lots of secondary markets. Car market today is on fire.

Middle men in endless markets.

No shortage of communists on TRF
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Old 4 October 2021, 08:50 AM   #64
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Nah. As the OP so eloquently put it, “20+ BLNRs” the greys are hoarding watches and clearly falsely inflating the prices of watches. Most of those inflated watches are traded amongst themselves. But every once in awhile they find that rich buyer(not wealthy but rich) with more money than sense and offload at the inflated price.

I know you love sucking down the Grey Kool aid (and if allowed I’d used another phrase) but what does the actions of what greys offered 10 years ago have to do with today? Nothing. They evolved with the times and price gauge Bc the hobby and a few kool aid suckers like yourself allow it for good customer service
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Old 4 October 2021, 10:26 AM   #65
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So you are mad that they are making profits?

Lots of secondary markets. Car market today is on fire.

Middle men in endless markets.
No, I’m not mad cause I haven’t and don’t plan to buy from them if I can help it. It’s just economics but it is irritating when people are having a “Stockholm syndrome” about the greys. They are like all salesmen. They try to please their customers so they won’t feel ripped off and will do repeat business as long as they’re not a fly by night operation.
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Old 4 October 2021, 10:29 AM   #66
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My AD told me David used to buy from them when they first opened and became a Rolex AD. This was almost 15 years ago and back then things weren’t as crazy. David would buy a bunch of watches every week and they thought he was an AD who just needed inventory. Funny how much the industry has changed since then.
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Old 4 October 2021, 10:45 AM   #67
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No, I’m not mad cause I haven’t and don’t plan to buy from them if I can help it. It’s just economics but it is irritating when people are having a “Stockholm syndrome” about the greys. They are like all salesmen. They try to please their customers so they won’t feel ripped off and will do repeat business as long as they’re not a fly by night operation.
Meh. I first bought a 216570 from David years and years ago. When they first came out. Been dealing with him and Thanh Do for years. Way prior to this crazy market.

I liked them then too. No fuss, and easy. I also love my AD. Great guy. I like lots of sales folks. Heck, I’m in sales too so it’s pretty easy for me to relate, I suppose.
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Old 5 October 2021, 03:50 AM   #68
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No shortage of communists on TRF
+1000

"David is bad because he makes money and doesn't put my needs in front of his!"
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Old 5 October 2021, 06:49 AM   #69
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Never spoke to him. The only thing I know is thanks to David my first Rolex increased in value 60% and the second 150% the minute I stepped out of my AD with them and for that I thank him. Now, if Rolex would only get on with some price increases of their own…
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Old 6 October 2021, 03:21 AM   #70
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I was told recently that some of the Greys have been asking people to start threads here, mentioning them.
Does anyone know if this is true?
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Old 6 October 2021, 03:22 AM   #71
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I was told recently that some of the Greys have been asking people to start threads here, mentioning them.
Does anyone know if this is true?
Seriously?!

If that were to happen, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be from those that the TRF crew already knows about (David, Thanh, Patrick, etc.).
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Old 6 October 2021, 06:31 AM   #72
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I've used Dave before and wouldn't hesitate to use him again ummmmm as long as I have the money and I'm sure the wife won't notice the new watch!!

Hoping sometime next year I'll be acquiring a second watch then!! Will more than likely go back to David!

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Old 6 October 2021, 09:33 AM   #73
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No shortage of communists on TRF
Let's Go BrandonSW !!!!
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Old 6 October 2021, 09:45 AM   #74
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I was told recently that some of the Greys have been asking people to start threads here, mentioning them.
Does anyone know if this is true?

If you think Seth is starting a thread as a gorilla advertising campaign for David here I can tell you that’s not the case.

Seth has been doing business with David for a very long time and as another business owner takes a bit of offense when people are trashing David.

Is David some saint? Hell no. He’s just another guy buying for a dollar and and selling for 2 and last time I checked that’s what we do here in America. He’s a retailer.

For some reason people in the TRF bubble think David is the largest name in the grey market or that he’s some sort of equivalent of the fed lol He’s just a guy who’s been relentlessly serving the TRF niche for over a decade and that has proved to be a fruitful venture.

My meme above was a joke because people seem to think David is some sort of wizard of oz character. He’s not.
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Old 6 October 2021, 10:00 AM   #75
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Never spoke to him. The only thing I know is thanks to David my first Rolex increased in value 60% and the second 150% the minute I stepped out of my AD with them and for that I thank him. Now, if Rolex would only get on with some price increases of their own…
you can't possibly think resellers are the cause of this.
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Old 6 October 2021, 05:49 PM   #76
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If you think Seth is starting a thread as a gorilla advertising campaign for David here I can tell you that’s not the case.

Seth has been doing business with David for a very long time and as another business owner takes a bit of offense when people are trashing David.

Is David some saint? Hell no. He’s just another guy buying for a dollar and and selling for 2 and last time I checked that’s what we do here in America. He’s a retailer.

For some reason people in the TRF bubble think David is the largest name in the grey market or that he’s some sort of equivalent of the fed lol He’s just a guy who’s been relentlessly serving the TRF niche for over a decade and that has proved to be a fruitful venture.

My meme above was a joke because people seem to think David is some sort of wizard of oz character. He’s not.
The allegation was put to me, by someone 'in the business'.
So, I simply asked the question.
(which hasn't been answered)

I have, absolutely no axe to grind, with any 'second hand watch dealer', trusted or otherwise.

I'm sure they are all providing a very good service.
I simply expressed my disquiet regarding the slightly sycophantic flavour of the short soliloquy regarding DSW, given how popular/unpopular the whole, cultivating relationships with AD's subject is.

This attracted some personal attack/comments.
(that's ok, were a discussion forum, after all)

My 'discount' quip to Seth, was meant 'tongue-in cheek'.
I DO hope TRF isn't losing it's, sense of humour.

ps. It's, 'guerrilla', by the way.
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Old 6 October 2021, 07:54 PM   #77
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The original post is a great example of “buy the seller.” A good reminder for us all as so many references are now out of reach at AD and going TS/Grey is a route often travelled.
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Old 6 October 2021, 08:06 PM   #78
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The allegation was put to me, by someone 'in the business'.
So, I simply asked the question.
(which hasn't been answered)

I have, absolutely no axe to grind, with any 'second hand watch dealer', trusted or otherwise.

I'm sure they are all providing a very good service.
I simply expressed my disquiet regarding the slightly sycophantic flavour of the short soliloquy regarding DSW, given how popular/unpopular the whole, cultivating relationships with AD's subject is.

This attracted some personal attack/comments.
(that's ok, were a discussion forum, after all)

My 'discount' quip to Seth, was meant 'tongue-in cheek'.
I DO hope TRF isn't losing it's, sense of humour.

ps. It's, 'guerrilla', by the way.
Fwiw, I didn’t take it as “tongue-in-cheek”. But I wasn’t offended either. I didn’t care all that much one way or another.

But in response:

I have been dealing with David forever. Likely near to a hundred deals, I kid you not. During different times I’d flip watches back and forth to him a couple of times a week. It was excessive and it was super easy. It was fun too!!!

But even after all that, not trying to garner a relationship with him. If for no other reason than I already have one. But it really makes no difference. Dealing with a gray dealer is different than an AD. To buy from a gray, you don’t need the relationship. All you need is money…or a watch to trade back.

If anything that post was more to tell all of TRF that I have a LNIB, just serviced, fully warrantied, Panda ROC, with rubber strap conversion kit, that I have never worn. Hint hint. It might be for sale soon.
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Old 6 October 2021, 09:26 PM   #79
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Fwiw, I didn’t take it as “tongue-in-cheek”. But I wasn’t offended either. I didn’t care all that much one way or another.

But in response:

I have been dealing with David forever. Likely near to a hundred deals, I kid you not. During different times I’d flip watches back and forth to him a couple of times a week. It was excessive and it was super easy. It was fun too!!!

But even after all that, not trying to garner a relationship with him. If for no other reason than I already have one. But it really makes no difference. Dealing with a gray dealer is different than an AD. To buy from a gray, you don’t need the relationship. All you need is money…or a watch to trade back.

If anything that post was more to tell all of TRF that I have a LNIB, just serviced, fully warrantied, Panda ROC, with rubber strap conversion kit, that I have never worn. Hint hint. It might be for sale soon.
Good luck with the sale, Seth.
(any chance of a discount?)
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Old 6 October 2021, 09:45 PM   #80
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Good luck with the sale, Seth.
(any chance of a discount?)
LMAO.

For you, add 5%.
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Old 6 October 2021, 10:06 PM   #81
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LMAO.

For you, add 5%.
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Old 6 October 2021, 10:13 PM   #82
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ps. It's, 'guerrilla', by the way.



Tooshay
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Old 6 October 2021, 10:24 PM   #83
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He’s got quite the store doesn’t he Jesse. If I had to guess, he also owns his McLaren outright

Sick car collection


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Old 6 October 2021, 10:27 PM   #84
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WOW! That's exactly how I pictured you.





(...ish)
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Old 6 October 2021, 11:07 PM   #85
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There are grey sellers in every commodity market, and yes they can manipulate pricing by manipulating supply vs demand, as long as the market will react to that. The manufacturers don't generally sell direct to them, but their distributors do. This helps the distributor move inventory in good times and bad times, it also gives a more stable production plan to the manufacturers. In high market times like we are in now, the greys are enhancing the aura around the luxury watch market, don't think Rolex and other watch companies aren't happy about that. Don't think that this hasn't helped other watch companies, for everyone that wanted a Rolex at MSRP, they are now a potential buyer of an Omega, GS, etc.
Any of you shop for hard to find bourbon or scotch? It's a crazier market than this, there is no standard to grey pricing, it's whatever someone will pay. 10X markup isn't considered crazy for the right bottle. Some of these bourbons collected dust on store shelves not too long ago. The systems don't change, the market changes. Right now it's a sellers market in alot of commodities, luxury watches and Rolex is one of them. It will ease when the economy hits a slide, and then like any commodity, the people with money reserves can take advantage of the down market. Watches, real estate, precious metals, fine wines, you name it there are people that speculate on it. The good ones make money at it.
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Old 7 October 2021, 01:03 AM   #86
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I guess we're getting off-topic, but I can't believe that owners of multiple nice watches are buying gray watches these days at 2x-3x MSRP. I am still very interested in watches, but am resigned to sit on the sidelines until normalcy returns. I haven't visited an AD in 2 1/2 years, and won't consider paying almost as much for a SS Daytona as I did for a platinum one 5 years ago. Do I love watches? I do. Do I come to TRF far too often? I do. Will I be buying a $100k 5711 or a $40k white Daytona? NFW.

Just like I'd buy a bottle of Pappy, but not for $1,000.

Grays add liquidity to the market, making it easy to buy or sell. Of course, they take as large a cut as they can get away with, like any capitalist.
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Old 7 October 2021, 01:15 AM   #87
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I guess we're getting off-topic, but I can't believe that owners of multiple nice watches are buying gray watches these days at 2x-3x MSRP. I am still very interested in watches, but am resigned to sit on the sidelines until normalcy returns. I haven't visited an AD in 2 1/2 years, and won't consider paying almost as much for a SS Daytona as I did for a platinum one 5 years ago. Do I love watches? I do. Do I come to TRF far too often? I do. Will I be buying a $100k 5711 or a $40k white Daytona? NFW.

Just like I'd buy a bottle of Pappy, but not for $1,000.
I'll say this - I've come to the grey market to buy in the past when they were at a discount, and I've come to the grey market to sell now that things are at a premium as well.

I have yet to buy anything over MSRP and don't intend to. I'm content with the collection, but I've also gotten a few from the AD recently that have either stayed (DJ41) or gone (OP41) - and I'll continue to work with my AD to buy any watches that I truly want.
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Old 7 October 2021, 02:45 AM   #88
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I must admit, I don't begrudge anyone buying the watch they want at over list price, If they can afford it then go for it. I also don't mind Grey dealers making a profit either, good for them. Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.The AD's make their profit but no one moans about that.

The end result is that someone gets the watch they want, the grey dealer makes his living. All is good, smiles all round.
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Old 7 October 2021, 02:46 AM   #89
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I guess we're getting off-topic, but I can't believe that owners of multiple nice watches are buying gray watches these days at 2x-3x MSRP. I am still very interested in watches, but am resigned to sit on the sidelines until normalcy returns. I haven't visited an AD in 2 1/2 years, and won't consider paying almost as much for a SS Daytona as I did for a platinum one 5 years ago. Do I love watches? I do. Do I come to TRF far too often? I do. Will I be buying a $100k 5711 or a $40k white Daytona? NFW.

Just like I'd buy a bottle of Pappy, but not for $1,000.

Grays add liquidity to the market, making it easy to buy or sell. Of course, they take as large a cut as they can get away with, like any capitalist.


you make a good point. for me personally, I am done. I bought one about 6 weeks ago, but otherwise, my buying has been mostly halted. even prior to that, it was minimal buying at best.

completely tired and done based on the current conditions.

on top of that, I dont even like watches much anymore. I just today put one on, but no joke, not because I want to. ironically, for the first time in forever, it is simply to tell the time.
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Old 7 October 2021, 04:00 AM   #90
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I must admit, I don't begrudge anyone buying the watch they want at over list price, If they can afford it then go for it. I also don't mind Grey dealers making a profit either, good for them. Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.The AD's make their profit but no one moans about that.

The end result is that someone gets the watch they want, the grey dealer makes his living. All is good, smiles all round.
I agree whole heartedly Dave.
I would suggest that, most people's 'beef,' here, is with Geneva allowing their AD's to sell stock at the back door to their friendly re-sellers, and then the AD telling genuine customers that, "they've no watches"!!


PS.
Love your laughing photo' mate!
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