GS Marketing - Food for thought

[duquephart]

Originally Posted by Locust

Always back to the bracelet. No matter what. AP has zero micro adjustment. Not a single peep over there. Sigh…..
And I own both. Just in case you were wondering

Indeed. And if it had the world's finest/most adjustable bracelet they'd be harping on the power reserve complication. The zombies just can't admit that GS blows Rolex away.

[swish77]

Not to belabor the point of trying to exactly center the GS logo on the clasp on the inside of wrists ….. Is it absolutely necessary in the first place and do we know that is how it’s designed?

GS has some quirky attributes with its straps and bracelets. Their deployant clasps, for example, are mounted upside down from the factory, meaning the clasp logo is also upside down from the wearer’s perspective, and that’s the way it’s supposed to be. (I always reverse GS deployants to match what I’m accustomed to.) It’s just a quirky Japanese thing.

I’ll also point out that the Rolex crown logo is off-center by design on their clasps, as shown here on my Daytona 116500LN, which has the clasp itself perfectly centered.

[samson66]

Originally Posted by swish77

Not to belabor the point of trying to exactly center the GS logo on the clasp on the inside of wrists ….. Is it absolutely necessary in the first place and do we know that is how it’s designed?

GS has some quirky attributes with its straps and bracelets. Their deployant clasps, for example, are mounted upside down from the factory, meaning the clasp logo is also upside down from the wearer’s perspective, and that’s the way it’s supposed to be. (I always reverse GS deployants to match what I’m accustomed to.) It’s just a quirky Japanese thing.

I’ll also point out that the Rolex crown logo is off-center by design on their clasps, as shown here on my Daytona 116500LN, which has the clasp itself perfectly centered.

Yep I agree. Essentially the Grand Seiko clasp is just the end piece of that rolex clasp. Rolex extended the clasp nearly the entire length of the blade so it looks more centered but your point about the logo section is totally correct. If they made the logo section of the GS clasp longer it would hide the off centered a little better.

[asiparks]

Originally Posted by swish77

Not to belabor the point of trying to exactly center the GS logo on the clasp on the inside of wrists ….. Is it absolutely necessary in the first place and do we know that is how it’s designed?

...snip...
I’ll also point out that the Rolex crown logo is off-center by design on their clasps, as shown here on my Daytona 116500LN, which has the clasp itself perfectly centered.

It's all Z shaped folding clasps- the latching mechanism is, by design, at the edge. Centering the exterior latch means moving the longer, flatter inside part of the clasp off of the inside of the wrist where it's designed to sit to balance the mass of the watch.
GS and other brands make elongated clasps, on their dive watches, similar to Rolex that extend back over the full length of the inner clasp, but I'm guessing they thought it inelegant or uneccessary on non dive models ?

I'd suggest the best solution might be a butterfly clasp- such as this on my Blancpain:
( note - the inside lays flat and isn't pointy as the second pic suggests)




I'm sure Seiko know that such a thing exists, so guessing they have their own reasons for not using one....

[GST15]

Originally Posted by samson66

The line about "Grand Toyota" is so true. Once a non-WIS hears "Seiko" nothing else matters. We can yell "But it's GRAND Seiko!!!" up to the moon but to everyone else it's an expensive Seiko. Toyota, Nissan, Honda all knew to give their upscale lines a different name that has nothing to do with the parent brand. GS should have done the same thing. I don't know that they'll ever get past that.

The other big problem (as many have mentioned) is their bracelets. Yes they need micro adjustability, but beyond that they just don't FEEL anywhere near as nice as Rolex or others. By feel I mean they don't feel like luxury. A Rolex bracelet just feels like quality. The GS feels like, well, a Seiko bracelet. There's nothing inspiring about it. Does its job fine and all, but that's about it. For all the work they put into their cases and dials I wish they'd dedicate just a portion of that work to upgrading the bracelets.

+ 1. Well said
The Seiko name is a drag on an otherwise fine watch

[duquephart]

Originally Posted by sinkholeninja

There’s no problem as such, just the fact that Seiko brand isn’t associated with luxury, irrespective of their countless innovations and contributions to the watchmaking world. They’ve tried to change that with GS, but in the eye of an average consumer GS is still Seiko.

Again: Who gives a rat's ass what the "average consumer" has in his/her eye?

[Andad]

Originally Posted by duquephart

Who gives a rat's a$$ what the "average consumer" thinks?

Unlike the Rolex zombies that abound here I bought the watch I have to please myself rather than going the "look at me" route.

The zombies just can't admit that GS blows Rolex away.

Again: Who gives a rat's ass what the "average consumer" has in his/her eye?

Quite right,

And are there also Seiko GS Zombies.

And is one is really boring.

Is that the best you can come up with?

[GST15]

Originally Posted by duquephart

Who gives a rat's a$$ what the "average consumer" thinks?

I think the thread has to do with "marketing", so someone at GS certainly gives a "rat's A$$"

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Same here. The band on my GS is more comfortable, and the clasp easier to use, than any of my Rolex.

That’s a beauty, what model is that?

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by DJ2020

Mike, here is a picture of mine I'm wearing today

Your clasp is not properly centered

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Jack T

That’s a beauty, what model is that?

Thanks, it's an SBGT235 that I bought from an AD in Hiroshima in 2018.

[Fleetlord]

Oddly enough Seiko makes an awesome, slimish, twin trigger adjustable clasp on their LX Sport line.

https://youtu.be/E1UHCMhZank

It’s shown around the 9:34 mark. Why they don’t use that on GS references…???

As for the marketing side, yeah Seiko has some work to do.

I wore my Snowflake around a colleague who knows I’m a watch collector, but is not one himself…so he is a great reflection of Joe Public.

He asked me what it was..I told him a Grahd Seiko….”huh” was his reaction…then he asked me how much it cost. I told him around $5k preowned. He literally spiat his brain out of his mouth….whaaaaattt? I didn’t think Seiko cost that much? Don’t you have Rolexes? Why would you buy a $5k Seiko when you have Rolex? So I tried to explain the differences…but his mind was made up…

Why?

Here is why..

https://seikousa.com/collections/ess...roducts/sur402

That’s what the general public see Seiko as. I know the WIS couldn’t care less about that, but if Seiko wants to go upscale, that perception of the brand being sub $300 watches sold at JC Penney will need to be rectified.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Oddly enough Seiko makes an awesome, slimish, twin trigger adjustable clasp on their LX Sport line.

https://youtu.be/E1UHCMhZank

It’s shown around the 9:34 mark. Why they don’t use that on GS references…???

As for the marketing side, yeah Seiko has some work to do.

I wore my Snowflake around a colleague who knows I’m a watch collector, but is not one himself…so he is a great reflection of Joe Public.

He asked me what it was..I told him a Grahd Seiko….”huh” was his reaction…then he asked me how much it cost. I told him around $5k preowned. He literally spiat his brain out of his mouth….whaaaaattt? I didn’t think Seiko cost that much? Don’t you have Rolexes? Why would you buy a $5k Seiko when you have Rolex? So I tried to explain the differences…but his mind was made up…

Why?

Here is why..

https://seikousa.com/collections/ess...roducts/sur402

That’s what the general public see Seiko as. I know the WIS couldn’t care less about that, but if Seiko wants to go upscale, that perception of the brand being sub $300 watches sold at JC Penney will need to be rectified.

This story is only relevant if one cares whether one’s work colleagues know how expensive one’s watch is. Luckily for those who do, there’s Rolex for that.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

This story is only relevant if one cares whether one’s work colleagues know how expensive one’s watch is. Luckily for those who do, there’s Rolex for that.

You missed the point. It’s a problem for Seiko…not WIS sensibilities

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

You missed the point. It’s a problem for Seiko…not WIS sensibilities

You’re missing the point. It’s not a problem for Seiko or Grand Seiko. They are doing just fine.

The same “Joe Public” think it’s insane to spend thousands on a Rolex, too. The only difference is that they recognize the Rolex brand.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

You’re missing the point. It’s not a problem for Seiko or Grand Seiko. They are doing just fine.

The same “Joe Public” think it’s insane to spend thousands on a Rolex, too. The only difference is that they recognize the Rolex brand.

‘Doing just fine” is not the concern.

The concern is moving quite upscale as Seiko clearly is doing, but will that strategy work as they project it to? That is clearly different than doing just fine.

The same Joe Public thought Rolex “costs” were acceptable….it seems more and more do everyday, hence among the reasons why they are so incredibly popular.

[Jack T]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Thanks, it's an SBGT235 that I bought from an AD in Hiroshima in 2018.

Thanks. I’m just getting acquainted with GS, recently tried on a couple at the NY boutique but it is hard to keep up with the variety of models.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Jack T

Thanks. I’m just getting acquainted with GS, recently tried on a couple at the NY boutique but it is hard to keep up with the variety of models.

You're welcome. This is one of the very few quartz models with a day and date complication that GS offers, but is only available in Japan or through Japanese dealers if you want a new one.

[ganiccus]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

‘Doing just fine” is not the concern.

The concern is moving quite upscale as Seiko clearly is doing, but will that strategy work as they project it to? That is clearly different than doing just fine.

The same Joe Public thought Rolex “costs” were acceptable….it seems more and more do everyday, hence among the reasons why they are so incredibly popular.

The real concern in my opinion is that Seiko has started blurring the lines with what used to be Grand Seiko core DNA features. For example, they now have the Spring Drive movement and the zaratsu polishing on their more upscale model lines like the Prospex. So what is Grand Seiko then, what's their identity versus Seiko? Why would I pay several thousands more for a GS if what used to define it can be found on a Seiko as well? On the other hand, a brand like Rolex has been very disciplined and kept Tudor at arm's length from their movement technology, bracelet and clasp design, etc. So you know what you pay for when you buy a Tudor compared to a Rolex and the customer doesn't get confused and less tentative to pull the trigger depending on their budget.

I think Seiko needs to to draw clearer lines between their brands in terms of price ranges and offerings to their consumers because even as someone who is into watches, this looks like a complete mess to me right now.

[deuxani]

Seiko is too proud of the Seiko name, so I don’t think they will rename Grand Seiko to something completely different. I totally understand the perception of the brand, I was once also a person who said “I like some of their designs, but I would never pay that much for a watch with Seiko on the dial”. But that has changed completely for me. I actually appreciate it that only watch lovers know and understand Grand Seiko. Also, I can actually wear it without constantly looking over my shoulders like I had with Rolex. And the finishing for the price…. we don’t even have to talk about that anymore.

But from a Grand Seiko point of view, I can absolutely understand they want to be seen as a true competitor and a serious contender for someone’s first luxury watch. At this moment, most people buy a Grand Seiko after having had a couple of other luxury watches and when they understand the landscape. It’s a difficult situation for them to be in and I don’t see a quick way out. Or they will just accept the current status, I’m personally happy with it. The brand for watch lovers.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by ganiccus

The real concern in my opinion is that Seiko has started blurring the lines with what used to be Grand Seiko core DNA features. For example, they now have the Spring Drive movement and the zaratsu polishing on their more upscale model lines like the Prospex. So what is Grand Seiko then, what's their identity versus Seiko? Why would I pay several thousands more for a GS if what used to define it can be found on a Seiko as well? On the other hand, a brand like Rolex has been very disciplined and kept Tudor at arm's length from their movement technology, bracelet and clasp design, etc. So you know what you pay for when you buy a Tudor compared to a Rolex and the customer doesn't get confused and less tentative to pull the trigger depending on their budget.

I think Seiko needs to to draw clearer lines between their brands in terms of price ranges and offerings to their consumers because even as someone who is into watches, this looks like a complete mess to me right now.

That is very true. The lines between classes of product are too blurred as well.

Why does the Seiko LX have the better clasp that GS buyers have been looking for?

[sinkholeninja]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

That is very true. The lines between classes of product are too blurred as well.

Why does the Seiko LX have the better clasp that GS buyers have been looking for?

Exactly right. Nobody in the WIS community is questioning the quality of GS watches, but Seiko are diluting the brand image by peppering their offering with too many references and furthermore by blurring the lines between the upscale Seiko range and GS.

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by bondtoys

Your clasp is not properly centered

Actually it is. When I wear it the watch head is perfectly centered as is the shoe on the clasp. It's just the way my wrist are shaped. Cross section of my wrist would resemble a egg shape.

I was not blessed with perfectly symmetrical shaped wrist.