ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
16 October 2021, 04:20 PM | #31 |
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This is been going on for quite some time now.
Margins on Rolex stink because it is difficult for the dealer to pull a strong rip(off) on the buy as EVERYONE knows how much these watches are "worth". So in order to get inventory, they have to pay more to get them. They HAVE to get them because that's what the market desperately craves. The issue this creates is that the dealers whole business centers around low margin, high turn references from select brands. Since the margins are so low, they can't afford to RIPOFF buy softer brands and stock them so that they can make more margin and "blend" it into an overall more profitable mix. They essentially don't have enough money, to make money, because they have to focus only on super liquid, high turn brands because they can't afford to sit on them. The more stable and successful grey market dealers have a diverse blend of brand offerings that they can make money off of. 35% margin or higher on soft brands like Breitling, IWC, Panerai...etc. 10%to 20% on super hawt references because they have to pay more to get them....but at the end of the day, their overall margins are bolstered by their soft brands. There is one dealer and YouTuber who does this a lot. He downplays Rolex and promotes weaker brands as alternatives because he makes way more margin off them. Buy LOW and sell high as possible with a little nudge to try to get buyers away from those bleeping Rolexes and into this junk that more money can be made off of. |
16 October 2021, 04:47 PM | #32 | |
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1. He’s doing it wrong 2. That’s what happens in a competitive market 3. He’s DEFINITELY doing it wrong. I could flip 2nd hand Tag Heuer on EBay for more than £50 a unit profit. 4. That’s what happens in a competitive market 5. Capital Gains tax exists and always has in the UK. If you buy and sell over a certain threshold you should be paying tax but if you don’t advertise yourself as a flipper you won’t likely be caught. Grey (like any other business model) will only break or disappear if there’s no profit to be had. |
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16 October 2021, 05:44 PM | #33 |
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£50 sounds difficult to believe. Maybe on a Breitling thats been sitting there for ages.
But isnt the current profit margin for a hot ss Rolex/AP/Patek for Greys pretty low like 5 to 10% max do? I wonder if people realy are getting those prices? Selling your Panda with a market value of 35K for 31.5K (10%) directly to a Grey sounds a bit to easy and high to me. |
16 October 2021, 05:48 PM | #34 | |
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16 October 2021, 05:52 PM | #35 |
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£50 does sound a bit far fetched, however I recall one video from a certain US based grey dealer / youtuber / banned TRFer attending a buying market and talking about selling on for between $250-500 margin.
Tbh, I really don’t see the point at those margins unless there is significant volume. |
16 October 2021, 05:56 PM | #36 |
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i hk grey dealers are the life blood of watches.
whether market prices are high or not. whether rolex or not. before rolex blew up. they just buy up the preowned watches from people who need money then sell high. some times it takes years some times days to turn over stock. if people stop looking for rolex globally then they would just follow the market price. |
16 October 2021, 06:33 PM | #37 |
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The big problem that UK individuals have to be able to resell their Rolexes is that they can practically only sell it to grays in their country, since Brexit it is difficult to put a watch on Chrono24 and for a member of the European Union to buy it , there are duties and taxes involved. UK with Brexit is going to have a very big economic problem.
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16 October 2021, 06:55 PM | #38 |
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I can believe £750- 1000 profit minimum but £50 I just cannot believe.
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16 October 2021, 07:23 PM | #39 |
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When you are hot your hot, when you are shot your not, these people are the new breed.
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16 October 2021, 07:42 PM | #40 | |
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Also don’t understand the comment about the tax man wanting his share - if this guy runs his operation as a legit business he’s already paying tax...? |
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16 October 2021, 08:44 PM | #41 |
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Grey I spoke to was making £10k on SS Faytonas recently and about £7k on PM versions.
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16 October 2021, 09:27 PM | #42 |
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Big grey in Hatton Garden refusing to buy anymore OPs,,,
Sitting on lots and don’t know which way the wind is gonna blow,,, Not aware if the Turquoise dial is included but I assume so, |
16 October 2021, 09:43 PM | #43 | |
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16 October 2021, 11:21 PM | #44 |
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Sounds like he may be facing two problems:
1. Competing with those not in possession of the watch. Seems like there are many online dealers (and some B&M; see the thread about 47th St.) that sell watches they aren't actually in possession of. Much, much less risk there, and easier to take only a small profit when there was no need to pay cash upfront for inventory. 2. Double taxation. Flippers are paying VAT, and he's forced to charge VAT as well. Flippers purchasing from the EU, who may have gotten a VAT refund, are still able to resell at market, and therefore are capturing a greater spread, too. Either way, taxes being collected twice, if I'm reading the "UK Tax Man" comment correctly. |
16 October 2021, 11:35 PM | #45 |
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How does that break grey dealers??? If anything it fuels it more……here’s why:
If flippers are asking for more, it’s a sign that supply/demand is getting worse, which is to grey market favor If grey dealers are paying higher premiums, it will get reflected on their grey prices (hence daytona white dial reaching $40k) If grey dealers are struggling to keep their cases full, it’s a sign of further supply demand problem, which is exactly what grey wants to see happen Finally, this whole story is probably because that grey dealer is trying to convince you/justify why his asking prices keep creeping up!!
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16 October 2021, 11:37 PM | #46 |
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they are immortal!
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16 October 2021, 11:57 PM | #47 | |
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It's not the secondary market that's "cracking" but the a very specific type of secondary market seller fighting to remain relevant. Perhaps more of them will shift to a consignment model, where flippers can put watches in the cases of established secondary market shops in exchange for a percentage of the sale (rather than doing same on C24). |
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17 October 2021, 12:01 AM | #48 |
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Your talking about the used watch market. As long as people tire of things or need money and want to sell stuff there will always be used vendors of whatever. Your point is well taken that the ever rising prices on used Rolex watches is simply not sustainable where the sellers can dictate the prices to the used watch dealers causing thinner and thinner margins.
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17 October 2021, 12:04 AM | #49 | |
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17 October 2021, 12:12 AM | #50 | |
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17 October 2021, 12:13 AM | #51 |
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Everyone is throwing numbers. No flippers here? What do you actualy get for a 35k market value daytona or a 100k market value 5711 if you sell it to the average grey? I guess the average grey takes at least 15 or 20% even on those kind of models.
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17 October 2021, 12:17 AM | #52 |
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And that's the part that seems to be valued less and less these days, for one reason or another. Secondary market dealers are no longer about getting watches out there, the way they once were, they're more of a pseudo insurance policy.
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17 October 2021, 12:18 AM | #53 |
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On the hot models the margin is crazy thin. If you own one of these watches you actually can set the price to the used dealers. If the market skyrockets the dealers do great. If it levels out they do not. As said, used watch dealers make their money on the soft pieces where they can set ridiculously low buy prices and sellers are stuck with the offers if they want to sell.
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17 October 2021, 12:21 AM | #54 |
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All the grey dealers in my country drives a Porsche 911 and we have 180% in car taxes. I think they are doing just fiiiiiine. But there are more and more of them and a lot of private sellers too.
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17 October 2021, 12:21 AM | #55 |
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Your dealer is simply on the wrong side of those huge margins...
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17 October 2021, 12:41 AM | #56 | |
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17 October 2021, 12:42 AM | #57 |
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markets fluctuate
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17 October 2021, 12:47 AM | #58 | |
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Original buyer paid £11k, 10 minutes later sold it for £20k and grey sells them (quickly) for £30k.
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17 October 2021, 12:56 AM | #59 |
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We are seeing the same behaviors in the US on used cars. People are paying stupid prices for used cars and the dealers are offering new MSRP for 2 year old cars. Profits on these cars are super thin and now we are headed for a very bad sales year for the car manufacturers. This is not sustainable and neither is the Rolex scenario we are in now.
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17 October 2021, 01:00 AM | #60 | |
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