Best Gray Dealers?

[sxdcfv]

Wondering if anyone wants to add to a list of Gray Market dealer experience. I saw a good comment about David SW but have not worked with them. jomaShop seems reputable. I've used World of Luxury with no problem for 2 watches. I bought a 5968A from AB Time without a problem. Any others worth listing?

Sometimes going gray is better than waiting years for a 'maybe'....just my perspective.

[Fat_ninja]

I would not be buying a patek from jomashop. A seiko. Ok

[GB-man]

You can search the name of the outfit and rolexforums on google to get results from The “Who is Who” section in the classifieds section where members leave reviews.

There are many highly reviewed sources for Pateks on the secondary.

[GeraldGentaFan]

K2 Luxury in Geneva.

[zahain]

Originally Posted by sxdcfv

Wondering if anyone wants to add to a list of Gray Market dealer experience. I saw a good comment about David SW but have not worked with them. jomaShop seems reputable. I've used World of Luxury with no problem for 2 watches. I bought a 5968A from AB Time without a problem. Any others worth listing?

Sometimes going gray is better than waiting years for a 'maybe'....just my perspective.

What did you end up paying for your 5968? Hopefully a reasonable amount

[mbrown55]

Sam's Watches in Miami

[Calatrava r]

These are just re-sellers of used watches. All Rolex and Patek watches are sold new only by ADs, so on-line sellers are merely selling used watches although some may be represented as unworn. Not really a "gray" market in Rolex and Patek.

[enjoythemusic]

Albert at European Watch, some here and elsewhere have enjoyed his service for many years. https://www.europeanwatch.com/patek-philippe.html

He's always been great to deal with :)

[tchaic]

I’ll 2nd European Watch. Good people.

[MCMartiny]

Have had good experiences with Chronext and Iconic Watches

[scotth888]

Agreed, Albert at European Watch...cannot question is integrity in anyway!!

[Fat_ninja]

I need to go to european watch. Ive never been, Lol its a few blocks from my house lol

[BNA/LION]

BriBoxer is a Top Notch Seller Here On TRF! https://www.rolexforums.com/member.php?u=21988

I and many of my friends have bought watches from him. He is Knowledgeable, Can get almost any watch you are looking for, Easy to deal with and Great prices!

Highly Recommended!

[Laserflorida]

Peter at Jewels in Time in Boca Raton, Fl. Have known him for over 20 years. Amazing inventory
www.jewelsintime.com

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

I would not be buying a patek from jomashop. A seiko. Ok

This.

No way i would buy a high end watch from JomaShop. I briefly flirted with the idea of getting a VC overseas from them, and then came to my senses, with the help of a few people on this forum.

[gpwhite]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

These are just re-sellers of used watches. All Rolex and Patek watches are sold new only by ADs, so on-line sellers are merely selling used watches although some may be represented as unworn. Not really a "gray" market in Rolex and Patek.

There are plenty of honestly un-worn Patek and Lange watches from reputable non-AD in Germany, Geneva, Hong Kong and a few in USA. So truly new, full kit, but also not from AD.... so these are "gray" as I understand it. Usually, they are offering inventory that is flipped out from AD or regional distributors (Richemont, however, has really reined this in-- not Patek).

European Watch in Boston, which is almost all primo and previously worn, is outstanding. It would delight all of us if a number of "typical" AD would perform and be as honest as European Watch.

[Kevin Hammer]

I have dealt with BriBoxer and DavidSW. No issues. Pleased with both.

[Justindo]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

I would not be buying a patek from jomashop. A seiko. Ok

While I prefer to support and purchase watches from authorized dealers and while they usually beat, match, or come close to general grey market prices, when they're unwilling or unable to come close to what a particular grey market dealer has a particular watch priced at, I go grey and I've yet to be disappointed. As for Jomashop, I've purchased watches from Longines, Breitling, Omega, Chronoswiss, JLC, Breguet, Patek, Vacheron, and Lange from them and all watches were pristine (much moreso than I've seen at boutiques and dealers who, on a daily basis, pull out and put back inventory into their safes) and came with boxes, manuals, and, in most cases, unstamped papers.

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

These are just re-sellers of used watches. All Rolex and Patek watches are sold new only by ADs, so on-line sellers are merely selling used watches although some may be represented as unworn. Not really a "gray" market in Rolex and Patek.

This is both ridiculous and naive. There are a handful of models from both Patek and Rolex that are currently in great demand while the vast majority of models from both manufacturers languish in cases for years at the vast majority of dealers. Grey dealers buy the vast majority of their inventory from either distributors, lower volume ADs who can't move inventory, or higher volume ADs with loads of average-selling watches and most of these watches have not seen the light of day, other than to inspect and verify them, since they left the factory. The idea that grey market dealers are selling used, damaged, or fake merchandise is an illusion perpetuated by the manufacturers and ADs to scare ignorant and fearful customers into thinking that unless one pays MSRP or a slightly below from an AD, they're not getting a new, real, working watch. Although there may be the odd exception, purchasing from any reputable grey market dealer has very little risk. Of course you won't get a manufacturer's warranty but I've purchased dozens of watches and have never had to make use of it. I'd gladly forfeit a warranty for an additional substantial discount.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

These are just re-sellers of used watches. All Rolex and Patek watches are sold new only by ADs, so on-line sellers are merely selling used watches although some may be represented as unworn. Not really a "gray" market in Rolex and Patek.

The guys selling online are re-sellers but they are not necessarily used. No one has worn them. They go straight into the pouch or the coffin (that you dont get anymore) after purchase.

Some US/UK dealers HAVE to write "unworn". Cant write BNIB with stickers.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

The guys selling online are re-sellers but they are not necessarily used. No one has worn them. They go straight into the pouch or the coffin (that you dont get anymore) after purchase.

Some US/UK dealers HAVE to write "unworn". Cant write BNIB with stickers.

Unworn refers to condition. Legally, a watch is new when it is sold by the authorized distributor to the first retail purchaser and the warranty begins to run on the date of purchase and the purchaser's name is on the warranty paperwork. When you buy an unworn, un-opened, complete watch but the warranty is already running and someone else's name is the warranty papers that is legally a used watch. In fact it was sold to the first person who then flipped it to the on-line seller which makes you the "third" owner of the watch.


I know of only one on-line seller who refers to their stock as "new" which is wrong. All the others refer to the condition and one lists the date on the papers. All re-sellers should do that.

[antbkny]

Ive purchased from Ocrolexguy, DavidSW and Bobs watches. All is good.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Unworn refers to condition. Legally, a watch is new when it is sold by the authorized distributor to the first retail purchaser and the warranty begins to run on the date of purchase and the purchaser's name is on the warranty paperwork. When you buy an unworn, un-opened, complete watch but the warranty is already running and someone else's name is the warranty papers that is legally a used watch. In fact it was sold to the first person who then flipped it to the on-line seller which makes you the "third" owner of the watch.





I know of only one on-line seller who refers to their stock as "new" which is wrong. All the others refer to the condition and one lists the date on the papers. All re-sellers should do that.

So how do you define a used watch? Like worn used?

If the watch is BNIB and stamped on a date, it’s still considered new. If you go to a watchfair that’s how it’s defined. Not sure how you’re going to change the world, but the world works in the way if the watch hasn’t been used it’s new. Sold as new and commands that price as new (whatever the market price dictates +/- XXX)

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Justindo

While I prefer to support and purchase watches from authorized dealers and while they usually beat, match, or come close to general grey market prices, when they're unwilling or unable to come close to what a particular grey market dealer has a particular watch priced at, I go grey and I've yet to be disappointed. As for Jomashop, I've purchased watches from Longines, Breitling, Omega, Chronoswiss, JLC, Breguet, Patek, Vacheron, and Lange from them and all watches were pristine (much moreso than I've seen at boutiques and dealers who, on a daily basis, pull out and put back inventory into their safes) and came with boxes, manuals, and, in most cases, unstamped papers.



This is both ridiculous and naive. There are a handful of models from both Patek and Rolex that are currently in great demand while the vast majority of models from both manufacturers languish in cases for years at the vast majority of dealers. Grey dealers buy the vast majority of their inventory from either distributors, lower volume ADs who can't move inventory, or higher volume ADs with loads of average-selling watches and most of these watches have not seen the light of day, other than to inspect and verify them, since they left the factory. The idea that grey market dealers are selling used, damaged, or fake merchandise is an illusion perpetuated by the manufacturers and ADs to scare ignorant and fearful customers into thinking that unless one pays MSRP or a slightly below from an AD, they're not getting a new, real, working watch. Although there may be the odd exception, purchasing from any reputable grey market dealer has very little risk. Of course you won't get a manufacturer's warranty but I've purchased dozens of watches and have never had to make use of it. I'd gladly forfeit a warranty for an additional substantial discount.

Didn't you just say what I did above. All Pateks are first sold through ADs. There is no other distribution channel. What you want to call a used watch dealer, gray or whatever, does not change the fact they are selling "used" watches even though they may be unworn and unopened if the papers are filled out with somebody's else's name and the warranty is running out. I mentioned that some ADs have back door arrangements where they keep the papers and fill in when the front firm (on-line reseller) completes the sale with the name of the purchaser. That is a new watch. I bought my 5496P that way.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Didn't you just say what I did above. All Pateks are first sold through ADs. There is no other distribution channel. What you want to call a used watch dealer, gray or whatever, does not change the fact they are selling "used" watches even though they may be unworn and unopened if the papers are filled out with somebody's else's name and the warranty is running out. I mentioned that some ADs have back door arrangements where they keep the papers and fill in when the front firm (on-line reseller) completes the sale with the name of the purchaser. That is a new watch. I bought my 5496P that way.

How do you define a watch that hasn’t got a name or date on the warranty card but it’s been swiped through the system?

Previously for Rolex any watch that had stickers taken off was used. Any watch with stickers was new. Now that the rules have changed, watches are still new with stickers on.

You should go to a watchfair and try to convince sellers their unused, never worn watches are used and “second hand”. Haggle for that “used” price.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

So how do you define a used watch? Like worn used?

If the watch is BNIB and stamped on a date, it’s still considered new. If you go to a watchfair that’s how it’s defined. Not sure how you’re going to change the world, but the world works in the way if the watch hasn’t been used it’s new. Sold as new and commands that price as new (whatever the market price dictates +/- XXX)

I totally get what you are saying. Used is used and worn. Unused is new. I doubt Patek Phillipe agrees that watches retailed to original purchasers and then flipped to re-sellers are legally new. Can only be sold "new" once legally. Why does the seller even matter for that matter. If I bought a watch new years ago but never touched it and it still sealed, I could sell it as new. But while it is in new condition, it does not have a warranty as a new watch does. My purchaser is buying from me. I maintain I am really selling a used watch in new condition. Re-sellers do so well in this tight watch market for some models as they have the product and can sell at the cost the market will bear. Very good in my view. Otherwise, no one could get a hot watch no matter how they wanted or could pay over MSRP.

[Sam Philip]

Michael Safdie
Davide Parmegiani
Bob Maron

[hrm]

Who would you recommend for a Lange & Sohne watch. Seems like a lot of grey dealers don’t stock it. I’m looking for an 1815 Chrono. Thanks.

[jd57]

Originally Posted by hrm

Who would you recommend for a Lange & Sohne watch. Seems like a lot of grey dealers don’t stock it. I’m looking for an 1815 Chrono. Thanks.

PrestigeTime has a big stock (or ability to obtain) Lange watches at a reasonable discount to retail and are very easy to work with, ship promptly, etc.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by hrm

Who would you recommend for a Lange & Sohne watch. Seems like a lot of grey dealers don’t stock it. I’m looking for an 1815 Chrono. Thanks.

That's because they're SLOOOOOW moving pieces.

[hrm]

Originally Posted by WatchLurv

That's because they're SLOOOOOW moving pieces.

It was easier finding my Nautilus than getting a pre-owned 1815 Chrono.