ADs supplying the Grey dealers

[TswaneNguni]

Maybe naive on my side but always thought it was flippers supplying the Grey market .

Friday had a discussion with a Pre-owned/Secondary market dealer .Non Rolex related.Looking at purchasing another brand,bnib at below new AD cost and not obtainable from the AD.I did try the ADs for that brand.

It did come up ...they do get their ss sports model Rolex stock directly from ADs.The point made were that ADs will not sell the blro,as an example, at mrsp if they can get more for it from a Grey dealer.

I was rather shocked by this.

Question: Why then not sell it at higher than MRSP to the client ??

I really think Rolex need to have a serious look into their MRSP on the ss sports models.It needs to be increased.

[SpeakWithMichael]

So we regular folks should pay more because Grey's are reducing our chances of buying at MSRP? Nice thought. Gonna go with no on that.

[tyler1980]

doesnt matter what the AD does, in this market it does not mean a regular customer would get the watch anyway.

an AD can either bundle to secondary dealers or bundle to individual AD customers or sell to customers who already spend a ton in their store every year.

None of those situations get a hot watch to a one off customer at retail. it doesnt matter where the watches go as long as people realize most of them were not going to them anyway.

stop the grey market, fine. More bundles then, as the AD's still need to sell a lot of slow movers or increased overall spend requirements. even the nicest AD's know how much you spend and it matters. They may not flat out say it, but they monitor it .

[77T]

This has been no surprise for many years now. Dealers will buy multiple slow movers (TT and/or PM) from the AD and get premium placement for the hot SS models.

Don’t believe raising SS MSRP will change anything other than Rolex’s GPM.


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[chloebear]

I know my local AD won't sell above MSRP on principal. They also don't play games where you have to buy other watches in order to get the hot watch. They certainly factor in buying history and the relationship, but they would never say "well you have to buy two lesser watches before you can get this hot watch." Very ethical outfit.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

doesnt matter what the AD does, in this market it does not mean a regular customer would get the watch anyway.

an AD can either bundle to secondary dealers or bundle to individual AD customers or sell to customers who already spend a ton in their store every year.

None of those situations get a hot watch to a one off customer at retail. it doesnt matter where the watches go as long as people realize most of them were not going to them anyway.

stop the grey market, fine. More bundles as the AD's still need to sell a lot of slow movers or increased overall spend requirements

Many prospective clients have learned that by now.As a long term collector ,not really concerned,but for a first time buyer looking at a first buy ...ruining the experience of the first one.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Many prospective clients have learned that by now.As a long term collector ,not really concerned,but for a first time buyer looking at a first buy ...ruining the experience of the first one.

it sucks to be new to Rolex, or Patek, or AP at the moment. I wouldn't start now if i was in the market for my first watch. no way. I already am trending away from the hotter pieces anyway as i dont like the ensuing mud fight it creates.

Thats why i am so excited about the new yacht master. If it was in SS i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Not because it wouldn't be a nice watch, but i dont want to get back into the trying to source it game. Same watch in SS and it would be entirely different with the buzz and hype

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

I already am trending away from the hotter pieces anyway as i dont like the ensuing mud fight it creates.

Agree.I do the same .

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Thats why i am so excited about the new yacht master. If it was in SS i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Not because it wouldn't be a nice watch, but i dont want to get back into the trying to source it game

Good point ..although now it is a very expensive watch for most prospective buyers.But agree on the "trying to source it game " No fun anymore.

[tjs00]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Maybe naive on my side but always thought it was flippers supplying the Grey market .

Friday had a discussion with a Pre-owned/Secondary market dealer .Non Rolex related.Looking at purchasing another brand,bnib at below new AD cost and not obtainable from the AD.I did try the ADs for that brand.

It did come up ...they do get their ss sports model Rolex stock directly from ADs.The point made were that ADs will not sell the blro,as an example, at mrsp if they can get more for it from a Grey dealer.

I was rather shocked by this.

Question: Why then not sell it at higher than MRSP to the client ??

I really think Rolex need to have a serious look into their MRSP on the ss sports models.It needs to be increased.

Agree with you (see my recent post). Market rate is market rate, grey's aren't inflating it, they are just responding to supply and demand. If ADs did the same we would be able to have the Rolex in store experience and pay market price which is the way products should be sold and priced at.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tjs00

Agree with you (see my recent post). Market rate is market rate, grey's aren't inflating it, they are just responding to supply and demand. If ADs did the same we would be able to have the Rolex in store experience and pay market price which is the way products should be sold and priced at.

[tjs00]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Agree.I do the same .

Ditto - many fine brands out there, used or alternate ("not-hot") pieces

[904VT]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it sucks to be new to Rolex, or Patek, or AP at the moment. I wouldn't start now if i was in the market for my first watch. no way. I already am trending away from the hotter pieces anyway as i dont like the ensuing mud fight it creates.

Thats why i am so excited about the new yacht master. If it was in SS i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Not because it wouldn't be a nice watch, but i dont want to get back into the trying to source it game. Same watch in SS and it would be entirely different with the buzz and hype

Well said. I agree. Love watches, but not interested in the games with the SS Professionals, PP, or AP. I'll probably add some less "desired" pieces. DJ, OP, Milgauss, Exp2 and Cellini Moon in the immediate future if not only PM Professionals.

[Juantxo]

Most Rolex dealers make their big bucks selling Rolex watches. A Rolex dealership mostly is a secure and significant money maker. No Rolex dealer wants to lose his link to Rolex.

Thus, Rolex can simply start buying a watch here and there from gray dealers, follow the serial number, and sanction the source (an authorized dealer). Soon the gray market will dry out.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Good point ..although now it is a very expensive watch for most prospective buyers.But agree on the "trying to source it game " No fun anymore.

a 27k watch you can get for 27k is a lot different than a 12.5k Daytona you actually have to pay more than 20k to buy most of the time.

MSRP for a SS watch is abstract in most situations anyway

a YM at retail is a better value to me than a SS watch at secondary prices

[ccaballero]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

doesnt matter what the AD does, in this market it does not mean a regular customer would get the watch anyway.

an AD can either bundle to secondary dealers or bundle to individual AD customers or sell to customers who already spend a ton in their store every year.

None of those situations get a hot watch to a one off customer at retail. it doesnt matter where the watches go as long as people realize most of them were not going to them anyway.

stop the grey market, fine. More bundles then, as the AD's still need to sell a lot of slow movers or increased overall spend requirements. even the nicest AD's know how much you spend and it matters. They may not flat out say it, but they monitor it .

This is correct analysis. For better or worse, the new normal. Only exception to this is family/personal relationship with AD folks. But only goes so far.

[jeffnnj]

Glad this topic is finally being discussed.


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[tacotaco]

exactly...
think of how many floral motifs 34 mm datejust DavidSW have

dont be naive...as ADs are closing and rolex controlling supply, ADs WILL sell to greys

the myth of the AD relationship is for big spenders

for small time purchasers who will get a rolex maybe every 5-7 years, it aint happenin

[Calatrava r]

I really doubt what you were told happens very often. Rolex warranty cards are "swiped" at point of sale with the buyer's information. If a re-seller (used watch dealer) is buying the watch to sell on-line, his info or his agent's info goes to Rolex as a completed sale at the POS being the AD. Too many same day sales to the same folks would concern Rolex and jeopardize the AD's status. All Rolexes are considered "sold" when they leave an AD and the warranty starts running on that date.

[zengineer]

Originally Posted by chloebear

I know my local AD won't sell above MSRP on principal...

That may be true, but they are not permitted to do so by Rolex as part of the contract they sign up to.

[bobernet]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

I really doubt what you were told happens very often. Rolex warranty cards are "swiped" at point of sale with the buyer's information. If a re-seller (used watch dealer) is buying the watch to sell on-line, his info or his agent's info goes to Rolex as a completed sale at the POS being the AD. Too many same day sales to the same folks would concern Rolex and jeopardize the AD's status. All Rolexes are considered "sold" when they leave an AD and the warranty starts running on that date.

You can doubt it, but it is what happens (and it’s not a recent phenomenon). Many here have bought NIB watches from grays that arrive overnight, followed by the documentation days to a week later.

AD holds onto the card, gray sells the watch and provides buyer name to AD. AD fills out the card and sends to gray dealer who sends to buyer. As I mentioned above, this is not a new practice. It’s been happening for many years.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by bobernet

You can doubt it, but it is what happens (and it’s not a recent phenomenon). Many here have bought NIB watches from grays that arrive overnight, followed by the documentation days to a week later.

AD holds onto the card, gray sells the watch and provides buyer name to AD. AD fills out the card and sends to gray dealer who sends to buyer. As I mentioned above, this is not a new practice. It’s been happening for many years.

This is shameful conduct .Its unethical business practice.Period.

[Bebot]

Rolex at some point will die as a brand because of this. Like others said, theirs other good brand out there you can buy without making grey seller rich.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

This is shameful conduct .Its unethical business practice.Period.

these AD's are under a ton of pressure to move whatever Rolex sends them. Rolex is the cause of the secondary market not AD's

AD's have to move a ton of slow selling watches somehow, and playing by the rules their sales are too low, they drown in inventory, and they lose their status. Playing by the rules isn't rewarded. An AD cannot say to Rolex, dont send watches this month, i haven't yet sold the ones you sent last month.

No one cared two years ago when even subs didn't move quickly and secondary dealers sold those at a discount too. The practice is the same as always the only difference is some sell at a premium now

Rolex is the one oversupplying AD's with watches they have a hard time selling. So how else do they get rid of them?

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

these AD's are under a ton of pressure to move whatever Rolex sends them. Rolex is the cause of the secondary market not AD's

AD's have to move a ton of slow selling watches somehow, and playing by the rules their sales are too low, they drown in inventory, and they lose their status. Playing by the rules isn't rewarded. An AD cannot say to Rolex, dont send watches this month, i haven't yet sold the ones you sent last month.

No one cared two years ago when even subs didn't move quickly and secondary dealers sold those at a discount too. The practice is the same as always the only difference is some sell at a premium now

Well,that means Rolex SA is happy with that then.Impossible that they cannot know.The sports model circus continues .....

[bobernet]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

This is shameful conduct .Its unethical business practice.Period.

Perhaps. Things are rarely as black and white as they seem. Would you feel the same if an AD hired an outside sales team with a commission-only compensation plan?

What if an AD wanted to have an e-commerce site to sell watches?

What if having an outlet to move less desirable pieces is what allowed an AD to survive and continue to get allocations for local customers?

The problem is that Rolex is too slow to raise the MSRP. The Daytona, as one example, has been hard to get for more than a decade. There was always a waiting list, always trading above MSRP on the resale market, etc. Just now, it has expanded to other models.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by TswaneNguni

Well,that means Rolex SA is happy with that then.Impossible that they cannot know.The sports model circus continues .....

i think they absolutely know. They wholesale watches and thats it. What the AD does to sell them one at a time i think they turn a blind eye.

They may make some token gesture to look like they care, but they dont. They have done nothing to correct the cause, which is the chronic oversupply of most of their watches. AD's unloading them to secondary dealers is the result of the oversupply. They would much rather sell them retail to individual customers, but those customers are not there in the numbers they need.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it sucks to be new to Rolex, or Patek, or AP at the moment. I wouldn't start now if i was in the market for my first watch. no way. I already am trending away from the hotter pieces anyway as i dont like the ensuing mud fight it creates.

Thats why i am so excited about the new yacht master. If it was in SS i wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Not because it wouldn't be a nice watch, but i dont want to get back into the trying to source it game. Same watch in SS and it would be entirely different with the buzz and hype

Yeah, that's why I was hoping the 5726 would be in WG, altho if with the new blue dial then the frenzy would not be abated.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i think they absolutely know. They wholesale watches and thats it. What the AD does to sell them one at a time i think they turn a blind eye.

They may make some token gesture to look like they care, but they dont. They have done nothing to correct the cause, which is the chronic oversupply of most of their watches.

Well,thats what I was told ...Rolex SA gives them a slap on the wrist and then the pratice continues .From what you say this is true then .

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yeah, that's why I was hoping the 5726 would be in WG, altho if with the new blue dial then the frenzy would not be abated.

totally agree. WG is the best option to balance out the demand. Might as well take advantage of it when they can... which is right now