ADs supplying the Grey dealers

[tng11]

How greys are getting their supply is not such a straightforward answer. For instance, I've witnessed the following scenarios in the last few weeks.

1. AD sells directly to a grey who then sells to the end user. Watch is in the grey's hands with all stickers, warranty card is with the AD. Watch is confirmed sold, and the warranty card is filled out with the buyer's name at the time and sent from the AD. In this scenario, the AD is likely getting a kickback from the grey.

2. AD holds SS pieces in the safe to bundle with PM models. Someone walks in and offers to buy a high priced piece. AD refuses to discount, but offers certain SS references to act as a "discount". The end user then flips the SS model to monetize the "discount". In this scenario, the AD realizes a higher price on the PM model without having sold the SS directly for a premium.

3. AD sells hot SS model to an end user based on a previous relationship. This person may be a "whale" or someone who just gets lucky to get the call. End user flips to the grey market.

Scenario #2 can characterize the relationship that many greys may have with ADs. They take the stinkers off their hands (with discount) and then get certain "candy" pieces they can sell above MSRP.

[tng11]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

My AD is the same.... however if i dont also buy a lot of watches i dont get hot ones. I know it, they know it, and they dont say it. They dont even operate WL's.

You go in feeling important and leave feeling important. Your wait is directly related to your value to the business. I am ok with that.

Its still a game but at least they dont put 100 people on the list and string them along forever.

Took me a year to get a 5164 when i was starting out with them and those were not that hard to get even then. There were other people ahead of me in priority (not some silly list). Later on i got things right away.

My AD relationship kind of works like this too. They don't operate purely on a straight line of how much you've spent, but you need to have bought something from them before as a baseline. If you haven't bought anything before, they're pretty straight up in telling you that they don't have a list. After you've bought something then they assess you on other qualitative factors, your potential spend, your referrals, and of course, if you build up their trust and demonstrate that you're not a flipper. No games or anything, no suggestion that you need to buy X before getting Y, but lots of face time and interaction are key.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by aleexxxxx

My friend visited a grey dealer recently and all of the Rolex he tried on had warranty cards from the local AD.

how many DD's are you buying from the local AD? just saying


... the dealer is

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tng11

How greys are getting their supply is not such a straightforward answer. For instance, I've witnessed the following scenarios in the last few weeks.

1. AD sells directly to a grey who then sells to the end user. Watch is in the grey's hands with all stickers, warranty card is with the AD. Watch is confirmed sold, and the warranty card is filled out with the buyer's name at the time and sent from the AD. In this scenario, the AD is likely getting a kickback from the grey.

2. AD holds SS pieces in the safe to bundle with PM models. Someone walks in and offers to buy a high priced piece. AD refuses to discount, but offers certain SS references to act as a "discount". The end user then flips the SS model to monetize the "discount". In this scenario, the AD realizes a higher price on the PM model without having sold the SS directly for a premium.

3. AD sells hot SS model to an end user based on a previous relationship. This person may be a "whale" or someone who just gets lucky to get the call. End user flips to the grey market.

Scenario #2 can characterize the relationship that many greys may have with ADs. They take the stinkers off their hands (with discount) and then get certain "candy" pieces they can sell above MSRP.

I am getting tired of this whole ss sports model game..and I have a few.

Wearing my DJ41 silver/smooth/jubilee now non-stop since it arrived three weeks ago and enjoying it !!

[CCY]

Found this memo in my Whatsapp history, was quite ironic to read last year when I saw it going around in The Netherlands.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by CCY

Found this memo in my Whatsapp history, was quite ironic to read last year when I saw it going around in The Netherlands.

Guidelines are not rules

[Bebot]

The best thing to do is NOT support grey market.

[DLRIDES]

The creator of gray market dealers is
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ROLEX !

Rolex forces dealers into watches that their buying demographic does not support. Therefore forcing dealers to sell the undesirable watches by packaging them with a few desirable watches.

Why is this never mentioned in these conversations ? Everybody wants to blame the AD, or blame the gray dealers, or blame anything but the cause !

AD’s want to survive, gray dealers make it possible, Rolex makes the same either way.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

The creator of gray market dealers is

ROLEX !


Why is this never mentioned in these conversations ?

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Rolex is the cause of the secondary market not AD's

Rolex is the one oversupplying AD's with watches they have a hard time selling. So how else do they get rid of them?

Originally Posted by tyler1980

They may make some token gesture to look like they care, but they dont. They have done nothing to correct the cause, which is the chronic oversupply of most of their watches. AD's unloading them to secondary dealers is the result of the oversupply. They would much rather sell them retail to individual customers, but those customers are not there in the numbers they need.

Originally Posted by tyler1980

No way rolex can actually sell a million watches a year to end customers at retail prices in the current product mix. It isn't happening. But next year those AD's are still getting that million watches worth of production, and the next, and the next, and the next

Originally Posted by tyler1980

this entire grey market argument then hinges on Rolex in Geneva not thinking something is off with these numbers. HK is the most obvious example because of its small population and huge amount of watches going there.

i swear im talking to myself

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i swear im talking to myself

Well, I guess there are a few of us then.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Bebot

The best thing to do is NOT support grey market.

I say support your wrist only, the who, how and why is all so secondary, or should be if you are mainly into wearing the watches and not all the hoopla.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

i swear im talking to myself

Confirmation of what you are saying .

[rlx123]

Originally Posted by Juantxo

Most Rolex dealers make their big bucks selling Rolex watches. A Rolex dealership mostly is a secure and significant money maker. No Rolex dealer wants to lose his link to Rolex.

Thus, Rolex can simply start buying a watch here and there from gray dealers, follow the serial number, and sanction the source (an authorized dealer). Soon the gray market will dry out.

I still can’t figure out why Rolex would care about watches going to grey market. Do they lose market share? Do they lose money from lack of sales? That’s a no in both front!

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Bryantto

I still can’t figure out why Rolex would care about watches going to grey market. Do they lose market share? Do they lose money from lack of sales? That’s a no in both front!

Seems Rolex SA is quite happy with that .

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by DLRIDES

The creator of gray market dealers is

.

ROLEX !

Rolex forces dealers into watches that their buying demographic does not support. Therefore forcing dealers to sell the undesirable watches by packaging them with a few desirable watches.

Why is this never mentioned in these conversations ? Everybody wants to blame the AD, or blame the gray dealers, or blame anything but the cause !

AD’s want to survive, gray dealers make it possible, Rolex makes the same either way.

Because when we could get a Sub with -20% off a grey and only -5% off an AD we weren't complaining. Now that we are paying +50% over MSRP at a grey they're suddenly the culprit. People are shortsighted and really don't understand this game.

ADs are trying to survive and greys are their lifeline because Rolex really does not care as long as the numbers are met. Don't meet the numbers, dont get stock, don't get stock, can't sell, thus you get your license revoked.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Bryantto
I still can’t figure out why Rolex would care about watches going to grey market. Do they lose market share? Do they lose money from lack of sales? That’s a no in both front!

I has been said that Rolex is not stupid but......

They see all their AD’s making their 38% and then some AD’s making a share of extra profit by selling sought after models to Greys at retail (with a $$ kick back) and then the Greys making 1000’s of dollars profit on the same watch when they sell it to Rolex’s own original customer.
Or AD’s bundling extra watches/jewellery etc to increase profit.

Rolex must see how badly this reflects on the average Rolex buyer who may have been a good customers for many, many years?

If a supplier in some countries did this with the price of milk or bread they would have serious issues.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Originally Posted by Bryantto
I still can’t figure out why Rolex would care about watches going to grey market. Do they lose market share? Do they lose money from lack of sales? That’s a no in both front!

I has been said that Rolex is not stupid but......

They see all their AD’s making their 38% and then some AD’s making a share of extra profit by selling sought after models to Greys at retail (with a $$ kick back) and then the Greys making 1000’s of dollars profit on the same watch when they sell it to Rolex’s own original customer.
Or AD’s bundling extra watches/jewellery etc to increase profit.

Rolex must see how badly this reflects on the average Rolex buyer who may have been a good customers for many, many years?

If a supplier in some countries did this with the price of milk or bread they would have serious issues.

it reflects badly on Rolex sure, but no AD i know of is making 38% margins on the vast majority of the watches Rolex ships them with a MSRP significantly higher than the market will bear. The hot ones get all the attention and thats a tiny fraction of what AD's have to sell

Its probably more like a secondary dealer gets a bunch of watches at cost or slightly above and some hot ones at retail. They secondary dealer makes money on both when they sell them on, but its a favor for getting a bunch of other stuff off their books that customers are not buying quickly enough

[botsy]

Berry’s in the UK lost their Rolex franchise because of supply to the grey market but not sure if this has happened anywhere else.

The thing that makes me laugh is the way you all as a board accept grey dealers here to screw you over and make the situation worse. You all discuss how bad it is but openly let it happen on here. This is the one place they should not be allowed to promote their goods at highly inflated prices!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by botsy

Berry’s in the UK lost their Rolex franchise because of supply to the grey market but not sure if this has happened anywhere else.

The thing that makes me laugh is the way you all as a board accept grey dealers here to screw you over and make the situation worse. You all discuss how bad it is but openly let it happen on here. This is the one place they should not be allowed to promote their goods at highly inflated prices!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Free market.It will continue when high demand exceeds supply.
If buyers are prepared to pay those prices,it will continue.
I for one,wont.

[Quamby]

Originally Posted by botsy

Berry’s in the UK lost their Rolex franchise because of supply to the grey market but not sure if this has happened anywhere else.

The thing that makes me laugh is the way you all as a board accept grey dealers here to screw you over and make the situation worse. You all discuss how bad it is but openly let it happen on here. This is the one place they should not be allowed to promote their goods at highly inflated prices!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree

[scurfa]

I think its more of a case of the man on the street realising you can put your name down for a watch, pay on your credit card, pick up the watch, hand it to a grey dealer for a profit, pay off your credit card and its a win win, it could be done many times, one of the first SD43's in the North East of England left the shop and appeared in the window of a grey dealer across from the AD within minutes.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

it reflects badly on Rolex sure, but no AD i know of is making 38% margins on the vast majority of the watches Rolex ships them with a MSRP significantly higher than the market will bear. The hot ones get all the attention and thats a tiny fraction of what AD's have to sell

Its probably more like a secondary dealer gets a bunch of watches at cost or slightly above and some hot ones at retail. They secondary dealer makes money on both when they sell them on, but its a favor for getting a bunch of other stuff off their books that customers are not buying quickly enough

The vast majority of Rolex buyers walk into an AD, choose a Rolex and pay retail.
They don’t have to barter at most Rolex price points, they just choose one.

[enkrypt]

I know of several grey dealers in the Netherlands who purchase their watches directly from the AD's in said country. I've purchased 2 rolexes (114060 and dj 36) in recent years, grey market, both were stickered and had stamped warranty cards from two well known AD chains in the Netherlands. Both watches I purchased around 1000 € below msrp.
If I can't buy a watch at or below MSRP, without waiting time, then I'm out of this game and off to different brands. Simple as that.

[Rolex addict]

I’ve talked to a few of the trusted sellers. They get multiple calls every single day from people wanting to sell a Rolex they just bought. It’s not just ADs supplying the grey market.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Rolex addict

I’ve talked to a few of the trusted sellers. They get multiple calls every single day from people wanting to sell a Rolex they just bought. It’s not just ADs supplying the grey market.

A few trusted sellers out and of how many?

I think most of the gray watches come from AD’s, hence the blank warranty cards?
Check out the dealers windows.

[Rolex addict]

Originally Posted by directioneng

A few trusted sellers out and of how many?

I think most of the gray watches come from AD’s, hence the blank warranty cards?
Check out the dealers windows.

Nobody knows the true numbers. No one. My point is that it’s not just AD’s contributing to the problem. There is not a single root cause to the craziness we’re seeing.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by botsy

Berry’s in the UK lost their Rolex franchise because of supply to the grey market but not sure if this has happened anywhere else.

The thing that makes me laugh is the way you all as a board accept grey dealers here to screw you over and make the situation worse. You all discuss how bad it is but openly let it happen on here. This is the one place they should not be allowed to promote their goods at highly inflated prices!


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People continue to buy those watches at those outrageous prices. When grey can list a used DaytonaC for over 20k Euros and less than a week later it's gone, you got to realize they aren't the problem. Problem is Rolex doesn't make enough watches to satisfy the demand they have at MSRP.



Look at something like this demand curve. You still have some demand at those high prices and it is met by production numbers. If they made more watches, greys would have to sell for less. If they make even less watches, grey will go up even more.

[enkrypt]

It's indeed not a single root cause.
But still, Rolex could very easily solve this.
I recently purchased a lovely Nomos watch, online, directly though the brand itself.
This way I'm 100% certain of authenticity, and they offer a flexible returns policy.

Why can't Rolex do the same? This way they are sure to eliminate discounts, and they keep more money in their pocket instead of splitting margins with the AD.

[WatchLurv]

Originally Posted by directioneng

The vast majority of Rolex buyers walk into an AD, choose a Rolex and pay retail.
They don’t have to barter at most Rolex price points, they just choose one.

That's because they don't know better. How many times the AD must have just laughed his arse to the bank when he sold a Lady DJ 31 at full price, when in fact that buyer could have gotten 10% off (at least). Roll back 4 years ago they could have gotten 25% off.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by enkrypt

It's indeed not a single root cause.
But still, Rolex could very easily solve this.
I recently purchased a lovely Nomos watch, online, directly though the brand itself.
This way I'm 100% certain of authenticity, and they offer a flexible returns policy.

Why can't Rolex do the same? This way they are sure to eliminate discounts, and they keep more money in their pocket instead of splitting margins with the AD.

That I would also love. Direct sales, with ADs replaced by showrooms. Where you can go, try it on and decide. Maybe perhaps even have delivery to showroom if you like it more that way.