The AP brand - on the upswing

[Bearxj86]

Gentlemen,

Don’t get me wrong - AP has always had decent brand management. However over the past year I think they’ve done an exceptional job marketing and the boutique focus has really slowed down discounting and price erosion to the point that the brand may be go through another renaissance. I’m becoming a real fanboy.

What has the experience been like you the rest of you? Do you like where they are headed?

[wisguy]

Retail strategy might be better, but they still rely on the Royal Oak solely, milking it to death.

The Code 11:59 is a flop, sorry if anyone here likes it, but the only way it will sell is to build a relationship with the boutique or get on the list for one of the desirable Royal Oaks.

Their CEO tries to be cool dressing like a biker but it always comes across as defending the strategy in interviews. I know the other CEOs might look stuffy, but a house like AP is not a start up, I think he needs to go frankly.

[martinr]

[srvrf]

To me, it is hard to say really. The markets are changing and AP is changing to adapt and anticipate what they think will happen. Of course this isn't limited to AP. Pulling ADs and going more towards boutiques is a huge disadvantage for those of us not near a large city. And for those of us that like more than one brand, "building a relationship" is even harder because you'd have to do it for each brand--buying multiple Rolexes, Pateks, and APs at their respective boutiques is much more expensive than buying them at a store that stocks all three brands. I'd simply like to have one of each.

As far as the RO +/- ROOs being the icons that drive the company, I'm not sure that's a huge problem. There have been other lines of course (Jules Audemars, Edward Piguet, Millenary, etc.), but I agree most people identify AP with the Royal Oak case. Rolex really isn't too different. Even though there are way more models, most of their iconic watches are still based on the Oyster case (why mess a winner?), and their designs slowly evolve over the years. Maybe they'll fade away into obscurity. But for now, there is no way a Code is on my radar, not at that MSRP.

The success or failure of Code 11.59 remains to be seen really. Who knows if anyone is really buying them? Maybe a few celebs/Instagram influencers will fall in love with them and they'll be hot items. Maybe John Mayer will say he likes them better than his green dialed gold Daytona.

[benlee]

Commercially, AP is certainly doing well. Along with PP and Rolex ( and arguably RM ), the brand are among the few that has retained brand cache and equity to command good value retention in their timepieces generally speaking and hence increase brand attractiveness and overall desirability. But I agree with the earlier poster, it is still too dependent on the Royal Oak line. I won't call the Code 11.59 a flop yet but it certainly needs improvement especially dial wise. Personally, I still continue to favour the brand, as it still form a significant portion of my collection.

Moving forward, I afraid it is going to be more like PP/Rolex as well, as in one will only get the desirable ( ie "hot" ) pieces if one buys a lot and the moment one stop buying, then so is the relationship and preferential allocation. That's unfortunately how the market works nowadays.

[wisguy]

Originally Posted by benlee

Commercially, AP is certainly doing well. Along with PP and Rolex ( and arguably RM ), the brand are among the few that has retained brand cache and equity to command good value retention in their timepieces generally speaking and hence increase brand attractiveness and overall desirability. But I agree with the earlier poster, it is still too dependent on the Royal Oak line. I won't call the Code 11.59 a flop yet but it certainly needs improvement especially dial wise. Personally, I still continue to favour the brand, as it still form a significant portion of my collection.

Moving forward, I afraid it is going to be more like PP/Rolex as well, as in one will only get the desirable ( ie "hot" ) pieces if one buys a lot and the moment one stop buying, then so is the relationship and preferential allocation. That's unfortunately how the market works nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Royal Oak and have owned a few (15300, 15703, 15400, 26300, 15202).

Actually the one watch I've sold that I want back real bad is the 15202, but the non quick set date proved to much for me.

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

Gentlemen,

Don’t get me wrong - AP has always had decent brand management. However over the past year I think they’ve done an exceptional job marketing and the boutique focus has really slowed down discounting and price erosion to the point that the brand may be go through another renaissance. I’m becoming a real fanboy.

What has the experience been like you the rest of you? Do you like where they are headed?

I've loved AP for a few years, but didn't take the plunge until last year with the blue dial 15450, which then progressed to the white dial 15400, and now, finally the 15202 (keeper) and soon to arrive the 26480ti.

All of my watches have been purchased through the boutique, as AD's continue to be rendered more impotent with each passing day, and the by product of that has been, and will continue to be, better value retention for the models as a whole, which is better for all of us.

AP is making a concerted effort to essentially become a boutique brand for a variety of reasons, and plan on getting into the certified pre owned market as well, so essentially they will be encouraging existing customers who own new models to sell them their used watches, slap them with an additional warranty, and then sell them used. This too will likely further maintain prices/values on used models.

So yes, I like where they're going.

Now I just wish they would introduce a 39-40mm ROO line.

[DasKptl]

Originally Posted by srvrf

The success or failure of Code 11.59 remains to be seen . . . . Maybe John Mayer will say he likes them better than his green dialed gold Daytona.

That, and a new hype will start for Code 11.59. It'll suddenly become a hot model.

[GB-man]

IDK buddy but I can say I’ve been most pleased with AP over the last year or two. The fact that they have numerous sport watches availabke has a large influence for me.

[mobster600]

I would say 5-10 years ago AP was in its hay day with the offshores. Right now the Royal Oaks are the only popular models. 5 years ago every celebrity had an AP on, LeBron James, D-Wade, Jay-Z the list goes on ALL were showing off their AP’s. I think that has settled down dramatically.

I completely disagree that AP is in an upswing, I think the 11:59 was a major flop and Offshores are easily attainable and offered at substantial discounts at new and pre-owned levels.

I think AP is a great watch and brand, but are overpriced. People are spending bookoo money on these and I don’t see why.

[Johntee050]

I believe AP is on a slow, gradual upswing. I agree that the Code was a slight flop and the Royal Oak is their most recognisable model but which brand doesn’t have a prominent like for which it’s the most recognised?

I believe it is on a sustainable upswing is the value is there (150-200k USD for a tourbillon) and they are slowly releasing new models to keep interest piqued.


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[Bearxj86]

I actually like the Code 11.59 - that and the boutique focus is moving me over from my historically Patek and Rolex heavy collection. I am not an offshore fan and prefer dress watches and the traditional royal oak.

Innovation combined with tradition is a powerful combo

[DasKptl]

I think Millenary could become popular among ladies. My mom really loved this RG Millenary.

(She thinks all Patek and Rolex ladies' models are ugly, while she likes the design of Cartier watches.)

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by mobster600

I would say 5-10 years ago AP was in its hay day with the offshores. Right now the Royal Oaks are the only popular models. 5 years ago every celebrity had an AP on, LeBron James, D-Wade, Jay-Z the list goes on ALL were showing off their AP’s. I think that has settled down dramatically.

I completely disagree that AP is in an upswing, I think the 11:59 was a major flop and Offshores are easily attainable and offered at substantial discounts at new and pre-owned levels.

I think AP is a great watch and brand, but are overpriced. People are spending bookoo money on these and I don’t see why.

Some of the older ROO's being sold at discounts, yes, I believe. But new models being sold at discounts? Where is this happening, exactly?
AD's aren't getting much of anything, and boutiques are selling them at retail.

[Johntee050]

Originally Posted by bearxj86

I actually like the Code 11.59 - that and the boutique focus is moving me over from my historically Patek and Rolex heavy collection. I am not an offshore fan and prefer dress watches and the traditional royal oak.

Innovation combined with tradition is a powerful combo

Your last sentence describes AP perfectly. There is truly lots of innovation yet they are backed up by lots of tradition.


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[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by bruinmd

Some of the older ROO's being sold at discounts, yes, I believe. But new models being sold at discounts? Where is this happening, exactly?
AD's aren't getting much of anything, and boutiques are selling them at retail.

We may be seeing the beginning of this effect where price erosion has slowed or will be reversed. I expect the boutique focused model to have a material impact within the next 12-18 months.

[texasmade]

As long as there isn’t a recession, AP will continue to do well with their boutique only model. We’ll see what happens when the economy eventually goes into a recession and people stop spending loads of money on watches.

[AK797]

Like with PP and Rolex, boutique no discount selling and allocation profiling works well if you are a known and valued customer, but bad if you are a new or occasional buyer, but that's the way every watch firm would like to be like nowadays, and AP had just enough brand equity to jump onto the last carriage of this hype train... but probably not enough to give the Code a chance to be really successful, unlike the Pilots of Patek, altho they were positioned far more favourably to do well, but still the shine is coming off the 5524, so going outside your icons is always tough. Best to just double down on what you do well, the luxury watch market is a tight one, you have to focus.

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by texasmade

As long as there isn’t a recession, AP will continue to do well with their boutique only model. We’ll see what happens when the economy eventually goes into a recession and people stop spending loads of money on watches.

Totally agree.


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[V25V]

I think most of it has been covered here already and I do not see them on an upswing at all, actually the opposite. Almost their entire offering is 41mm+, which in my opinion, is insane. Yes, there is a place for 41,42 and 44 models but they need more 39-40mm options. Yet they keep the 15202 at 39mm as a carrot to get people to buy other crap they do not want, a la Rolex. Sorry, I'm not going to do that or travel to a boutique since I do not have one nearby, just not worth it to me. Glad I have my 15300 and FC Diver, that's all I need from AP at this time.

[GB-man]

I think AP is really killing it in the higher end. Out of my price range but in the 100k-250k price point they have some killer sports pieces.

[wisguy]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I think AP is really killing it in the higher end. Out of my price range but in the 100k-250k price point they have some killer sports pieces.

Catering to the rappers is a not the greatest strategy either... no loyalty there.

Even them are looking past AP now.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by mobster600

I would say 5-10 years ago AP was in its hay day with the offshores. Right now the Royal Oaks are the only popular models. 5 years ago every celebrity had an AP on, LeBron James, D-Wade, Jay-Z the list goes on ALL were showing off their AP’s. I think that has settled down dramatically.

I completely disagree that AP is in an upswing, I think the 11:59 was a major flop and Offshores are easily attainable and offered at substantial discounts at new and pre-owned levels.

People are spending bookoo money on these and I don’t see why.

If you don’t know what you’re talking about it’s better just to keep quiet. Just my opinion, there may be others that enjoy reading stupid comments.


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[Reign]

I think they’re doing really well. They get a lot of slack for being a “one trick pony” but they’ve carved that out really well. They have the RO, ROO and Concept lines. Every haute brand has their niche. Their filler lines are no different than the second tier lines from other brands.

Their skeletonised / Tourbillon models are second to none and they’ve shown great progress with materials (steel, titanium, ceramic, carbon and precious metals).

They just need to add some specialized in house chrono functions and they’ll be set.

[Burlington]

For ‘mainstream’ luxury sports watches, AP are number one.

I’ve also been exceptionally impressed by their after sales customer attention.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by V25V

I think most of it has been covered here already and I do not see them on an upswing at all, actually the opposite. Almost their entire offering is 41mm+, which in my opinion, is insane. Yes, there is a place for 41,42 and 44 models but they need more 39-40mm options. Yet they keep the 15202 at 39mm as a carrot to get people to buy other crap they do not want, a la Rolex. Sorry, I'm not going to do that or travel to a boutique since I do not have one nearby, just not worth it to me. Glad I have my 15300 and FC Diver, that's all I need from AP at this time.

I agree with this opinion. Their entire line is mostly comprised over oversized watches. Anything less than 39mm in their line is marketed as a ladies watch, which in my opinion, can put off someone looking to spend $30k+ on a watch. The 15300 was really a great sweet spot for them. I really love their watch designs and have given the 15400 a chance (3 times, twice in OR), and the 15450 in OR but they just do not fit right on my 6.8" wrist.

[mobster600]

Originally Posted by AshAP

If you don’t know what you’re talking about it’s better just to keep quiet. Just my opinion, there may be others that enjoy reading stupid comments.


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Wait wait wait, are you actually gauging upswing with Grey market prices and dealers BS lack of supply. I’m not going name names but I was at an AD considering a ROC, they made it clear they could get me whatever I wanted if I paid right now full price. AND there were 4 Offshores in the case, 1 gold and they had a bracelet ROO too.

Please fully explain, exactly what was stupid about my comment. You must be a young newbie to AP. I’ve had an AP on my wrist since 2003. How long have you?

[AshAP]

I’m quite new to the brand.





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[Baco Noir]

I've had my 15400 for 5 1/2 years and love it. However, with the price inflation, I just sent it off for service and will be selling it to fund a gold watch when it comes back. This bubble may not last forever, so I'm hitting it while the iron is hot!

[Bearxj86]

I personally with a 6.75 wrist cannot pull off a 44mm offshore at least from my angle.

I have a 15202st which I felt wore a tad large and a recently purchased Code 11.59. What fascinates me is obviously the Royal oak line but I do like their dress watches and some of their vintage pieces. For example I just picked up a rare 14790st military dial in pretty much NOS condition. I think there is some vintage appeal and the direction AP is going with the Millenary series and Code 11.59 appeals to me. I too have owned 15300, 15400, 26331 and 15407 and they never felt quite right. The 202 and 14790st fit like a dream and I owned both the latest dial 15202st and an older dial. Will attach pics

Speaking as someone that used to buy grey AP I have made a conscious decision to invest my time and money to build a boutique relationship. This is not done lightly.