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Old 21 January 2019, 06:09 AM   #31
CorradoBrit
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So is that the watch in question in my link? Says that watch sold 12/31. When did the buyer actually receive the watch given the Holiday delays? If same watch then buyer has had it about 2 weeks not a month. And where is the feedback? Not seeing anything in the Who's who section?
So far, I'm not seeing any evidence that the OP is being scammed. Guess both parties will need to let the PP process runs its course. Buyer will not be able to dictate the return of funds before return of watch.
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Old 21 January 2019, 06:11 AM   #32
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I believe there was a post last week asking about a rotor noise? Can recall the details. If the purchaser is reading this, my Big Block has the veritable 7750 and the rotor noise is definitely a feature. Very sorry OP, hope this turns out well for you.
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Old 21 January 2019, 06:14 AM   #33
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Good luck. Hope it works out
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Old 21 January 2019, 06:26 AM   #34
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I've used PP to purchase items for well over a decade. I only had to return an item on two occasions and in both of those, I had to return the item before PP would give me a refund.
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Old 21 January 2019, 06:34 AM   #35
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Tell the buyer you will film the opening of the box at Paypal's explicit request so that should stop him trying to send you some rubbish. Film it by all means as well and this can be used with paypal to uncover this scam. And be sure to tell Paypal now that you are suspicious of this outcome so it is in their notes, and it will all line up that this is a scam and they will most likely find in your favour then.

If the watch is damaged however or not working then they will probably side with the buyer, but at least you have the watch.
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Old 21 January 2019, 07:09 AM   #36
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So is that the watch in question in my link? Says that watch sold 12/31. When did the buyer actually receive the watch given the Holiday delays? If same watch then buyer has had it about 2 weeks not a month. And where is the feedback? Not seeing anything in the Who's who section?
So far, I'm not seeing any evidence that the OP is being scammed. Guess both parties will need to let the PP process runs its course. Buyer will not be able to dictate the return of funds before return of watch.
I believe the sale was on eBay...
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Old 21 January 2019, 07:10 AM   #37
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PayPal has created a easy scam with there policy. 180 return policy get real and they favour the buyer every time. I avoid them on high ticket items. I wish you the best


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Old 21 January 2019, 07:16 AM   #38
CorradoBrit
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I believe the sale was on eBay...
Not according to OP. Per seller....
"I sold a swiss watch to a relative newbie on the forum."

The dates and specs fit the FS ad linked earlier.
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Old 21 January 2019, 07:49 AM   #39
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Well, after 12+ years and hundreds of good transactions I guess its bound to happen sooner or later.

Here is the short of it. I sold a swiss watch to a relative newbie on the forum. They paid me via paypal. Received the watch a month ago and left me good feedback sharing their pleasure with a good transaction and quick fulfillment on my part.

Fast forward a month to yesterday. I get a email out of the blue stating they wanted to return the watch since it made a rotor noise.

I explained kindly it was a ETA 7750 movement and those rotors are all noisy by design. I currently own 3 and even offered to send a video of my watches, in addition to sharing many threads on the subject.

From there I also asked them to send me a video of the "noise". The buyer would not.

I also said they could send the watch to my master watchmaker and I would have them look at it, at my cost, on their behalf. The buyer would not.

I asked for any photos showing "damage" if possible. The buyer would not.

Each time I presensted what I thought to be a very generous option, or a reasonable solution, the buyer would not work with me.

I should state at this point the watch sold was sold in 100% working order (LNIB condition) and the "noisy sound" was 100% consistent with all my other ETA watches regardless of the buyers "opinions" when it left my possession last month. Furthermore, none of my ads state returns are acceptable. However, I am a 100% good guy thru and thru and if the buyuer would have received the item, within a reasonable time of 1-3 days, and contacted me with a genuine concern I would have very much felt it was legitimate and not buyers remorse as I feel it is being contact a month after the sale, and I would have tried to do something for them in good faith (i.e. return w/o question).

So...from here I stated that if they really wanted to return it, since it appeared there was no other logical reason to me other than buyers remorse, I would do for a reasonable industry standard 20% restocking fee. Again, I am not a dealer just a lovign WIS that does not have funds on hand and I would have to dip into my savings to get this unexpected watch back to make the buyer happy, then resell on my own time / dime.

The seller again refused and wanted a full refund, beginning to threaten me at this point with paypal claims and poor feedback coming on the forums. Again, I took the high road, asked them why on earth they would do this, and gave them my phone # and asked them to call me so we could amicably talk through this as adults. No calls, just more threatening PMs from the buyer.

I then decided to cut my losses and just ask them to return the watch and upon receipt I would refund them in full.

This is where I am starting to feel scammed if you will.

From here the buyer stated they would not return my watch until I paid their (ransom) refund first since they didnt trust me. I explained they could send it signature confirmation, send to my office (a 100% legitimate business), to my independent 3rd party watchmaker who could hold it until such time as payment is released, they could come to Pittsburgh and meet me face to face, heck I even said meet me at my local Police station since there is a exchange station there! None of these options sufficed for the buyer and this is despite MY VERY hard work to obtain 12 years of 100% ebay transactions and numerous forum friends and good feedback. In other words, this person has zero reason not to trust me and all they continually stated was they, "just didn't want the watch."

Sigh....I feel like I am getting scammed now. In all my fortunate years I have never, as a seller, had a paypal claim. Reading horror stories online are getting me very nervous too!

Paypal immediately pulled the funds from my account w/o any input from me, the seller. The only option I saw was to request the buyer return the item for a full refund and input tracking, which I did.

However, it appears the buyer returning it in paypal is a "option" for the buyer to solely agree to or not agree to. In other words, how can it not be a buyer mandate to return my goods before they receive a refund? Am I reading this correctly? How can that be!

My ultimate fear is 2 things:

1. The buyer doesn't agree to return the watch, keeps the watch, and paypal closes the claim in their favor since they claim, "the watch was damaged".
2. The buyer agrees to return the watch, puts a mickey mouse $1 watch in a box and return mails it to me, and paypal says the buyer returned the goods and issues a refund w/o fruther question based on tracking alone.


GUYS...Do I have any protection as a seller??? I hope this is not a valuable life lesson here. If so, I will only be doing face to face transactions in the future or bank wire.

Yeah, I'm kinda confused now. Thought it was on ebay, but his last feedback received on trf was 12/26 and it was from an established member. I'm not finding, the said positive feedback for the OP on here anyway.
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Old 21 January 2019, 08:57 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by CorradoBrit View Post
So is that the watch in question in my link? Says that watch sold 12/31. When did the buyer actually receive the watch given the Holiday delays? If same watch then buyer has had it about 2 weeks not a month. And where is the feedback? Not seeing anything in the Who's who section?
So far, I'm not seeing any evidence that the OP is being scammed. Guess both parties will need to let the PP process runs its course. Buyer will not be able to dictate the return of funds before return of watch.

Guys, pls stop over analyzing, lol.

1. Upon closer inspection he sent me positive feedback in a PM. I'll post a screenshot shortly. He also said he did the same in the reputation forum, but I can't find it. Guess I trusted he did and never looked since I got the PM. oh well...seems to be par for the course now with this buyer (i.e. no trust)
2. I'll also post the watch listing.
3. We did the deal late December he received it 1.2 at which time I received a glowing thank you PM from the buyer.

Again, I'll post more specifics shortly but prefer to let this play out with PayPal first since there appears to be multiple avenues this can go.

Tks again to everyone thus far for answering my original question, which was the primary intent of this post, and I'll circle back soon.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:01 AM   #41
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Not 'over analyzing'. Just double checking inconsistencies.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:05 AM   #42
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Not 'over analyzing'. Just double checking inconsistencies.
Thanks again but spare yourself the time. ;)

I think the facts laid forth will speak for themselves.

1. I dont have my watch.
2. Pp is holding funds.
3. Buyer wants ransom money to then even consider sending my watch back.

Given this potential scenario I lose my watch, my PP account is frozen, and if I was dense enough to even send the buyer additional funds on their word to return my watch where does that leave me? 3 strikes? Hmmmmm???

Again, I'll be happy to post pm screenshots later but if you dont respectfully call this a potential scam, then what would you refer to it as? Good business practice, lol? A donation on my part to a would be false businessman, lol???

Seriously this is not a time nor place to debate. If you feel I'm being false please and kindly move onto another thread. Many thanks and again, I think my original question has been answered for now and I'll do the right thing and circle back later to protect other forum members.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:15 AM   #43
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Thanks again but spare yourself the time. ;)
On second thought, don’t name the buyer. It would be nice to hear his side. How about you PM him so that he can respond to your claims since your story is evolving.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:28 AM   #44
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OP you're making WAY too many assumptions here regarding buyers intentions and motivations. Yes would be good to hear other side now.

Fact is it takes several days for PP to send out those notifications of dispute. It was probably submitted about a week after buyer received the watch not after a month of ownership as is indicated in this thread.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:31 AM   #45
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On second thought, don’t name the buyer. It would be nice to hear his side. How about you PM him so that he can respond to your claims since your story is evolving.
Very sorry to see I have created a unintentionally questionable thread due to inconsistencies for a couple ppl here. that wasn't the intent of the thread.

You can either choose to believe that I'm asking a legit question,, and in a pickle, or not, in which case trust me...I have many more things I'd rather do over the next couple weeks than continually make time calling paypal.

Again, my original question was PayPal procedure related, that's really it. Tks and prefer kind comments only. If you have hate please take it elsewhere. Thank you.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:34 AM   #46
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OP you're making WAY too many assumptions here regarding buyers intentions and motivations. Yes would be good to hear other side now.

Fact is it takes several days for PP to send out those notifications of dispute. It was probably submitted about a week after buyer received the watch not after a month of ownership as is indicated in this thread.

What part did I not make clear. Let me try again.

THE BUYER RECEIVED THE WATCH ON JANUARY 2ND. BUYER PMD ME JAN 2ND STATING RECEIPT AND HIGH SATISFACTION WITH THE WATCH AND OUR TRANSACTION. THE BUYER CONTACTED ME ON JANUARY 19TH STATING THERE WAS A ISSUE OUT OF THE BLUE. I ATTEMPTED TO FIX THIS FOR THEM ALL DAY THAT DAY WITHOUT SUCCESS. THEY OPENED A CLAIM THAT NIGHT, JANUARY 19TH.

Not sure I can be any clearer.

Theres really nothing else of consequence to discuss at this point, that's it.

I think it's best I leave the thread alone for some time now since some of you feel the need to press me and this is not productive for anyone. It's simply a raw deal where I've tried to do everything one could, and then some, and its blowing up in my lap. thanks again to those with the kind comments and to the analysts I just hope you dont encounter a similar raw deal either. tks.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:39 AM   #47
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Very sorry to see I have created a unintentionally questionable thread due to inconsistencies for a couple ppl here. that wasn't the intent of the thread.

You can either choose to believe that I'm asking a legit question,, and in a pickle, or not, in which case trust me...I have many more things I'd rather do over the next couple weeks than continually make time calling paypal.

Again, my original question was PayPal procedure related, that's really it. Tks and prefer kind comments only. If you have hate please take it elsewhere. Thank you.
There’s been no hate expressed by anyone. Asking to give the buyer an opportunity to present his side of the story is simply fair play. Unfortunate that you’ve turned fair play into animosity.
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:43 AM   #48
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Hate? What are you talking about?
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Old 21 January 2019, 09:47 AM   #49
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There’s been no hate expressed by anyone. Asking to give the buyer an opportunity to present his side of the story is simply fair play. Unfortunate that you’ve turned fair play into animosity.

Again, I came on here to ask a PayPal question (see title bar, lol). If you call what happened here logistically fair play, well then I'm speechless and respectfully disagree with your opinion. Also, I dont take kindly to questions regarding my story if you will. To me that's hate and not the intent of this forum. My understanding of the forums intent is to educate one another in a professional, productive and amicable manner, little of which are occurring now. Im a little disappointed given the position I'm in at the moment, and think most rational people would also feel the same, but prefer we all just move on here pls on good forum terms.
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Old 21 January 2019, 10:10 AM   #50
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Nevermind, I don't care.
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Old 21 January 2019, 10:10 AM   #51
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Again, I came on here to ask a PayPal question (see title bar, lol). If you call what happened here logistically fair play, well then I'm speechless and respectfully disagree with your opinion. Also, I dont take kindly to questions regarding my story if you will. To me that's hate and not the intent of this forum. My understanding of the forums intent is to educate one another in a professional, productive and amicable manner, little of which are occurring now. Im a little disappointed given the position I'm in at the moment, and think most rational people would also feel the same, but prefer we all just move on here pls on good forum terms.
If your expectation is that everyone here will automatically take your story as gospel, even with inconsistencies you admit to, then you will surely be disappointed. This sub forum is patrolled by skeptics and analysts, and your story has drawn analysis from some of them. Calling those people haters for asking questions you don’t care to hear doesn’t speak well for your cause.
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Old 21 January 2019, 10:16 AM   #52
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If your expectation is that everyone here will automatically take your story as gospel, even with inconsistencies you admit to, then you will surely be disappointed. This sub forum is patrolled by skeptics and analysts, and your story has drawn analysis from some of them. Calling those people haters for asking questions you don’t care to hear doesn’t speak well for your cause.
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Old 21 January 2019, 10:19 AM   #53
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x2
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Old 21 January 2019, 10:41 AM   #54
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Guys...Am I being Scammed on PayPal? Anyone with Dispute Experience Advice???

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsiderkg View Post
Again, I came on here to ask a PayPal question (see title bar, lol). If you call what happened here logistically fair play, well then I'm speechless and respectfully disagree with your opinion. Also, I dont take kindly to questions regarding my story if you will. To me that's hate and not the intent of this forum. My understanding of the forums intent is to educate one another in a professional, productive and amicable manner, little of which are occurring now. Im a little disappointed given the position I'm in at the moment, and think most rational people would also feel the same, but prefer we all just move on here pls on good forum terms.


You were inconsistent on some points in your story here. Expect scrutiny.

But even a cursory reading of this section would have answered all your questions from previous PayPal episodes without posting a thing.

Empathize with your predicament but unfortunately it is what it is for now.


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Old 21 January 2019, 12:05 PM   #55
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They would just leave your PayPal in negative status. I’ve had it happen years ago when I got scammed on selling a laptop.
And You will NEVER get another PayPal Account again.
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Old 22 January 2019, 12:51 AM   #56
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And You will NEVER get another PayPal Account again.


Probably not now. 10 years ago you could, and i did.


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Old 22 January 2019, 03:17 AM   #57
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So the temporary good news is I just got off the phone with PayPal and the credited back my account temporarily. They also stated in such instances the claimant has to either prove via a 3rd party, the watch is faulty or return it with tracking. Why on principle they can still return something like this after 30 days is beyond me since I'm not Costco, lol.

The bad news is the buyer still is refusing to return the item until I first pay their ransom fee....and I doubt in such case they would return anything less perhaps a empty box.

I sure hope PayPal sees thru this buyers scam attempt!!!

I agree with you that an empty box will be on it's way back to you. Paypal and Ebay can't be trusted to do the right thing always. Too many transactions that have issues across the board and managing all of those correctly is not an option. Your best course of action is to stay in communication with Paypal via telephone and also share your concerns about him shipping an empty box back. If he does send it, record the entire thing from receiving it all the way until you open it. Paypal will without a doubt take your side if it is in fact empty but you need to ensure you document the whole thing including the delivery driver handing it to you and even ask him/her if they mind if you open it in front of them while recording. Potential 3rd party witness at that point. The guy you are dealing with is an obvious con artist based on all of the ways he was given to be satisfied or even worse he is just the most dreadful human being on earth. Either way out smart him if you are getting the raw deal here.
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Old 22 January 2019, 03:29 AM   #58
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PayPal has created a easy scam with there policy. 180 return policy get real and they favour the buyer every time. I avoid them on high ticket items. I wish you the best


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Agreed, but it's because people don't handle it the right way.


Oh and by the way.. Get to work David! You're slacking.. Almost 20'k posts! Get to it!
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Old 22 January 2019, 05:32 AM   #59
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We are always told to 'Buy the seller'. I would suggest 'buying the buyer' as well. I wouldn't chance buying OR selling from someone that has less than stellar, confirmed and relevant feedback. Best of luck to the OP.
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Old 22 January 2019, 05:48 AM   #60
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Agreed, but it's because people don't handle it the right way.





Oh and by the way.. Get to work David! You're slacking.. Almost 20'k posts! Get to it!


Cheers will do


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