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Old 22 July 2021, 06:33 AM   #31
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I have spoken to people who have left San Francisco because it’s just too damn expensive and too dangerous and when I confronted them that this is what they voted for, they just have a blank look on their faces and say that “it’s more complicated than that.”
I truly believe that no one ever really knows what they’re voting for.
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Old 22 July 2021, 06:34 AM   #32
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If it’s all you’ve known - or at least 80+% of what you’ve known - you are heavily invested. The author’s slant is to accelerate more development in the face of current residents’ wishes to throttle back. If I interpret the comments thus far, less development is better.

The article is a bellwether of things remembered and things to come where you live. But a good reporter could write nearly the same “Paradise Lost” piece about nearly every corner of the US.

So my is find your center and decide if that writer is right or wrong. I don’t live there but I believe he is wrong in general.


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Old 22 July 2021, 06:39 AM   #33
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I have spoken to people who have left San Francisco because it’s just too damn expensive and too dangerous and when I confronted them that this is what they voted for, they just have a blank look on their faces and say that “it’s more complicated than that.”
Yep, same here. The unwillingness to accept that fact will doom others to the same fate...
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Old 22 July 2021, 06:42 AM   #34
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I truly believe that no one ever really knows what they’re voting for.
I think you're right to an extent; it wasn't some massive sweeping single policy that changed things, it was an incremental change over numerous decades. The problem now is that everyone can SEE the effect it's had and refuses to change course or attempt to reverse direction.
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Old 22 July 2021, 06:47 AM   #35
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Just put Bruce Jenner into office lol
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Old 22 July 2021, 06:54 AM   #36
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Old 22 July 2021, 06:58 AM   #37
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Like with a lot of things, if you turn away from the bad, avert your eyes, you'll never see it. But that doesn't mean it isn't there.
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:16 AM   #38
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California has jumped the shark and so has my home state(NY). We’re still stuck here for 2.5 years when the wife hands in her retirement paperwork then adios North East.
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:21 AM   #39
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Born and raised in Socal. My kids were all born in Socal. Wife was born in Chicago and raised in TX and hates it here. Five years ago I said I would never think of living elsewhere but for the past year I've not only been actively looking at out of state, but out of country as well. We'd bring our business interests along.

Weather is about the only thing that is superior to other places in the US. Over population, over taxation, over regulation... it's not the place I grew up and if one really looks at the trend it will be infinitely worse in 20 years.

One of my commercial tenants called me today and asked if she could sub lease booths in her salon because she's having a hard time retaining/hiring employees. She's increased her pay $6 per hr and still cannot find people to work. Finding good employees is difficult everywhere for every industry, but Newsom just signed another $600 per person state stimulous bill to help him through the recall vote. Meanwhile other states are refusing the federal stimulous/unemployment checks to encourage people to come back to work.

Just to give others who don't live here a sense of the level of taxation, California actually had billions of dollars in tax revenue surplus during the pandemic while we were pretty much shutdown. As someone who produces and pays a ton of taxes, I don't mind paying taxes for services rendered by the local and state govt, but that's not the case here. I don't want to go on too long as my post probably has my frustration coming out.
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:22 AM   #40
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If California were a separate country, it would have the fifth largest economy in the world ahead of India and just behind Germany. It’s the center of global tech and pop culture. Its universities are world class. The weather and beaches are nice.

No place is perfect, but I think California will be just fine.
I keep hearing this, but then you have to look at the fine print.

Nearly all major corporations have run from California, including Apple, Schwab, Toyota, McKesson.

Tesla is one of the few remaining companies with manufacturing facilities here, and they are not what you would call a model corporation.

The fact is every major business is running away from California and resettling in Oregon, Washington, Texas, Georgia, or Colorado. Some have even gone as far as Florida.

Even the one thing this state is known for, Hollywood, is shifting production to Canada and Georgia.
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:23 AM   #41
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There are worse places to live. I know because I’ve lived in some of them.
Actually, not there aren't. The extremely high cost of living in California along with the degrading quality of life is the issue. The residents are not getting what they paid for. What other state has that same high cost and degradation?
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:31 AM   #42
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Is it just me or are these California / NY is dying articles almost like an annual thing?

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In 2020, the population of California DROPPED by almost 200,000 people. T
Isn't this a less than 1% decrease? Seems premature to clutch pearls over this. A few months ago there were a few threads where numerous forum members were saying NY was going to take a long time to recover, if ever, and yet it seems to be the opposite.
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:33 AM   #43
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Never ever would have been a "DREAM" to me after 2 years at 29 Palms and El Toro ... Not a big deal at all and long gone forever.. Thats the 3RD MAW F4 Squadron.... Could care less..
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:35 AM   #44
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The fact is every major business is running away from California and resettling in Oregon, Washington, Texas, Georgia, or Colorado. Some have even gone as far as Florida.
You forgot Nevada. We've seen a HUGE influx of California based corporations, including Tesla, start moving production facilities and warehouses out here. Our state leaders lured a lot of them out here with massive tax breaks.
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Old 22 July 2021, 07:56 AM   #45
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Isn't this a less than 1% decrease? Seems premature to clutch pearls over this. A few months ago there were a few threads where numerous forum members were saying NY was going to take a long time to recover, if ever, and yet it seems to be the opposite.
Net/net it is a small percentage by numbers but it's the high wage, high tax business & workers leaving and welfare recipients entering. I recently read that 12% of all Californians are on some form of welfare.

With regard to clutching pearls, I guarantee those who were born and raised don't want to leave, but one can't live in a state of perpetual decline forever.
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:00 AM   #46
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WAY 2 MUCH OF "ENTITLEMENT" for me their in that State.
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:17 AM   #47
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I’m 61 years old and until 5 years ago lived my entire life in Los Angeles and Orange County . 5 years ago my wife and I moved to Coachella Valley (the desert) . I love it where we are , but when I’m back in LA and OC (very seldom) it is depressing to see the filth , graffiti , homelessness , traffic and millions upon millions of people . I’m a Californian born and raised .I don’t want to move . We plan on staying where we are , hopefully we will feel the same way as the years go by .
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:26 AM   #48
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Its happening in NYC too. Change is constant.
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:26 AM   #49
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Preach my brother! We just sold our house in Marin County (stupid money) and moved to Arizona. Have THE highest property taxes IN THE country sucks and higher cost of living to go with the wild fires. We said...PEACE!
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:43 AM   #50
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As someone who produces and pays a ton of taxes, I don't mind paying taxes for services rendered by the local and state govt, but that's not the case here. I don't want to go on too long as my post probably has my frustration coming out.
You are right and I understand.

My cousin moved away from CA about six years ago and loves it in FL. Someone overpaid for their apartment and they paid less than 50% of CA apartment sell price for a much larger / better freestanding home. Great neighborhood (gated/private), plenty of golf courses, and of course the typical FL beaches, etc.

No June gloom in FL either, no forest fires, no mud slides, and plenty of good quality electricity (with low electricity prices thanks to FPL).


----------------

Please let me clear up something tho... i love CA! Wonderful to visit, have many friends in the biz who live there, there are fun things to see and do too. So yes, I thank all you CA residence for paying for it all so we can enjoy the very best parts of CA... as you pay for the rest of it.
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:44 AM   #51
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Old 22 July 2021, 08:51 AM   #52
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Is it just me or are these California / NY is dying articles almost like an annual thing?



Isn't this a less than 1% decrease? Seems premature to clutch pearls over this. A few months ago there were a few threads where numerous forum members were saying NY was going to take a long time to recover, if ever, and yet it seems to be the opposite.
The US population growth in the last decade has been 8%.

For the largest state in the union to see a net population decrease since the last census is a tremendous thing.
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Old 22 July 2021, 09:10 AM   #53
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Rarely wander into Open part of TRF, but this is an epic thread. Thanks guys.

Very insightful post on jilted lover mentality.

From a tourist perspective, I can really feel SF change in the last three years. Also feels less civil, even in airport now. Still love the sunshine perks though — minus the roads.
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Old 22 July 2021, 09:22 AM   #54
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My biggest gripe is the cost of living, but I do well for myself so it’s a non-issue. I could live a higher lifestyle in another state, but I don’t want for material. I live and work in a good area, halfway between the beach and the mountains. If you can avoid getting caught up in the political nonsense that plagues THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, it’s not so bad. Like I said, I’ve been in worse places.
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Old 22 July 2021, 09:39 AM   #55
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Austin has changed since I was there from 1985-1992.

Denver has changed since I first moved here in 1992 and again in 2007.

I have seen San Francisco and Seattle circle the drain from a tourist’s perspective.

My brother hates Living in Houston 40+ years.

My wife’ s whole family hate Memphis where they have lived for three generations. Her cousins hate Atlanta. Three generations there as well.

Point is, it is easy to focus on the negatives in your surroundings, especially the longer you live there. A new place is like a new relationship. Exciting and wonderful until the crazy shows up.

My brother lived in Oregon for 30 years until retiring and moving part time to phoenix. Now he complains about traffic, heat and fires. So he goes back up to Oregon just in time for 112 heat and the bootleg fire.
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Old 22 July 2021, 09:40 AM   #56
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Oh, Colorado sucks. Don't come here.
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Old 22 July 2021, 10:01 AM   #57
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My biggest gripe is the cost of living, but I do well for myself so it’s a non-issue. I could live a higher lifestyle in another state, but I don’t want for material. I live and work in a good area, halfway between the beach and the mountains. If you can avoid getting caught up in the political nonsense that plagues THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, it’s not so bad. Like I said, I’ve been in worse places.
I think people lose sight of the fact that they are living in old, crappy, 1800 square-foot houses that cost literally 2-3 million when in most other parts of the country this would get you an actual mansion.
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Old 22 July 2021, 10:06 AM   #58
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I think people lose sight of the fact that they are living in old, crappy, 1800 square-foot houses that cost literally 2-3 million when in most other parts of the country this would get you an actual mansion.
Not everyone covets a mansion.
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Old 22 July 2021, 10:07 AM   #59
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I'm a West Coaster, having spent most of my life in SoCal as well. While the last 3 years have seen us in FL due to my wife's job, we are moving back in the Fall and I cannot be more excited.

Paul, the Best Coast is still the place to be. You want to get away from the city? You've got Palm Springs, Big Bear, etc. in your backyard. While FL has been great for us, I just cannot deal with the humidity, the bugs, the humidity, the alligators, the humidity...and on top of that, it's so flat out here! I do love the beaches though.

The only thing that CA has against are the taxes and high cost of living, but my thoughts on it are that you have to pay if you want to play. I have many friends out here that have always said "I'd be in CA if it wasn't for the cost" - which to me goes to show you that it truly is paradise. I'd rather be in the place I actually want to be in than to look from afar yearning for it on the daily.

Also, the "exodus" is highly exaggerated. There was an article recently that showed the number of people moving out wasn't vastly different than before.

As a USC alum and someone that met my wife in SD and started our family there, it's a place that will always be in our hearts and we'll be retiring in CA, whether it be NorCal or SoCal.

Edit: Also, it isn't all blue skies and apple pie everywhere else...people will always have something to complain about; at least we'll be complaining about it in paradise.
Jesse,

3 years away is along time for CA. I've been here all my life but I can say now it's time to go. It's bad here I mean bad.

And you forgot to mention the great parts about California today-
Wildfires every month of the year - For the last few years the central valley had the worst air quality in the world for months at a time.
The National Parks here are so over crowded you can't get in. It's just overwhelming to see how many people are there
There's no water - NONE
The homeless population has exploded to levels that you can't imagine. There are tents and filth everywhere. And here the homeless can not be asked to move unless you have a bed for them to sleep in because of this beautiful law the police can do nothing.
It's scary to drive on the freeway because you might get shot.
Retail crime is crazy to the point stores just close their doors. And if you buy something it's a scary feeling just to get it to your car

It's not the same
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Old 22 July 2021, 10:08 AM   #60
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Not everyone covets a mansion.
While that may be true, a close friend of mine lives in a town home that is currently worth $1.7 million which is less than 400 yards away from where we just had a quadruple SHOOTING with one fatality over the weekend.

So it’s not like it’s even in a nice part of town or anything.
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