ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
21 November 2018, 10:01 AM | #1 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: France
Posts: 1
|
1978 Oyster Submariner 5513/0 - pre-Comex with special engraving
Hi!
This watch was my uncle's. He worked for COMEX, in hyperbaric welding facilities. From what I understood he was pretty good at it, and he and his team were breaking records of how low they could go in the ocean. The botttom of the watch celebrates the record he established in welding at 450m under sea-level in 1983. From the serial number on the watch, it's from 1978. Long story short, my uncle died a while back and the watch "resurfaced" recently. It is pretty badly damaged, but we got in touch with Rolex Geneva and they told us it would cost us 1200 CHF to fix it. But we don't even know if we should do it? From what I get original parts might be better on vintage watches? The same guy that did the estimate at Rolex offered to put the watch on the market, pay the reparations out of his pocket and take 25% of the price for doing so. I honestly don't know if this is a good deal or not, I know nothing about this market. Anyway, I wanted to share the story because I find it interesting, and it might be a unique piece (never heard anything about a specially engraved Comex). Also would love to have opinions about this, and maybe ways to gather more informations about the watch and its history. Thank you if you took the time to read this :) |
21 November 2018, 11:27 AM | #2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: USA Baby!
Posts: 1,068
|
don't do a go$damn thing with that and Rolex. Send to LA Watch Works and have them give it a service and see what needs replacing. DO NOT POLISH OR ALTER in any way. Well done my friend.
Are you planning on keeping or selling? B |
21 November 2018, 11:36 AM | #3 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,903
|
Much of what I see is quite a bit newer than 1978. It's a later dial (looks like gold surrounds on the lume plots) and bezel insert for sure. Are you sure about the serial, can you share the first few digits? As you mentioned, the back of the watch says 1983, so maybe that's when the watch was purchased. Or it could be a 1978 watch with a later "service" dial and bezel. Also, what is damaged besides the crystal? It doesn't look bad to me. This forum can help you gather more information, which can help you make a decision about how to proceed. More photos would be good, starting with the numbers between the lug and better photos of the dial and hands.
|
21 November 2018, 01:13 PM | #4 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Montreal
Watch: The Habs pick 1st!
Posts: 3,589
|
It’s a very valuable Watch. Don’t repair it in any way. Don’t let some scammer take 25% of the value of a watch that sells itself. You don’t need an agent when you have a premier piece like that.
|
21 November 2018, 01:40 PM | #5 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: GMT+8
Watch: GMT 1675
Posts: 165
|
Congrats !
If the watch still runs accurately, just get the crystal polished or replaced, and wear it as is. Not much is more satisfying that wearing a vintage watch that has such provenance. Could you uncle have bought & worn the watch for a few years, and then only got it engraved later in 1983 ? Probably also got it overhauled at some point after that, hence the newer dial. |
21 November 2018, 01:42 PM | #6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Canada
Watch: 1680
Posts: 1,396
|
Certainly looks like a replacement dial if the dates are correct. Lott’s of scratching on the crystal and bracelet too. But that’s to be expected with a real working man’s watch. The story is amazing and sets it apart from the average watch on the market. Get as much information as you can and don’t let anyone work on it until you’re clear about what you have!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
21 November 2018, 01:45 PM | #7 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Real Name: Jeff
Location: Seattle, WA
Watch: 16600
Posts: 4,065
|
Shame he’s already banned. Would love to have seen how this would have played out.
__________________
Instagram - Jfullm42time / Jfullm42time2 (backup) |
21 November 2018, 02:05 PM | #8 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,903
|
Wow, what happened here? I hope it wasn't something I said.
|
21 November 2018, 02:14 PM | #9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canada
Watch: GMT 16750
Posts: 70
|
|
21 November 2018, 02:20 PM | #10 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 6,171
|
Quote:
Doubt it. There's now a "Hugooo" browsing the thread. |
|
21 November 2018, 02:39 PM | #11 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Sam
Location: los Angeles
Posts: 2,051
|
Quote:
I agree. The dial n the insert r consistent with early 80’s 5513, so it was probably bought around that time imo. The scratched plexi crystal is also consistent with transitional sub of that year. It would b interesting to see the serial between the lugs. Never seen a comex engraving like that. If it has provenance, this could b a tremendous find worth quite a bit of money. To OP, could u show the other side of the watch? Does it have a hole on the 9 o’clock side? I blame it on autoconnect. |
|
21 November 2018, 02:40 PM | #12 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Sam
Location: los Angeles
Posts: 2,051
|
|
21 November 2018, 03:10 PM | #13 | ||||||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada, Montréal
Posts: 12
|
Good evening all,
Quote:
I'm gonna try to answer you all in order : Quote:
Right now we're looking to sell, but the more I look into it the more interested I get. I've always loved watches, but I don't really see myself walking around with 10k+ USD value at my wrist... but that can change :) Btw what would the price be approximately? Quote:
Serial number is 523XXXX The damage is the crystal (scratched) and the watch does not really worked. When we got it it did not worked at all, and after the estimate at Rolex Geneva it started to work again, but they did not change any piece (just cleaned it inside and out). But the crown is stuck, it barely moves and it's nearly impossible to change the hour shown on the watch for now. Maybe the crown was what blocked the watch (I have a tissot that stop time when I click the crown out) English is not my native language so sorry if it's not super clear. I added a few pics, but the watch stayed in France with my parents so I will have to ask them. What should they take specifically? Quote:
Quote:
And I never considered he could have this engraved himself but it's not impossible. Did they use to give watches with blank case? Also from what my mom told me, he got it like this from Comex. I'll see if I can get more info contacting Comex but I doubt it. My parents might still have a contact of one of the guys he was working with so we're going to try that too. Quote:
I do like the story too, and the fact that you can tell the watch "had a life". Thank you for your advice :) Additional question: Is there some website or experts that could have more information regarding the story behind the watch? I looked at a few webpages already that had a ton of information about the relations between Rolex and Comex, but it's more centered on the Rolexes with the Comex logo on the dial. Thank you guys! |
||||||
21 November 2018, 03:12 PM | #14 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada, Montréal
Posts: 12
|
Quote:
|
|
21 November 2018, 09:41 PM | #15 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 6,171
|
Quote:
Good luck / Bonne chance |
|
21 November 2018, 10:10 PM | #16 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: England
Posts: 518
|
I’m interested to see how this pans out.
If I were you OP I’d get together some provenance from his working life. People are going to be sus otherwise I’m sure. The Comex link could mean its worth a lot more than a normal sub but at the moment all you’ve got is an old sub with an engraved caseback and a story (and don’t take offence to that but there’s so many people scamming with old Rolex) |
21 November 2018, 10:32 PM | #17 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada, Montréal
Posts: 12
|
Quote:
I say that because the paper we got from the estimate at Rolex says it's a 5513/0, and I believe those are nicknamed "pre-Comex" right? And sorry I did nnot knew the rules for the valuations, where can I read those rules? Because nothing about selling was specified in the rules I found. Merci de tes conseils :) Quote:
But I agree with you, the proof that it's legit is pretty thin. |
||
21 November 2018, 11:04 PM | #18 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: England
Posts: 518
|
Quote:
I assumed you’d used someone other than Rolex themselves. Only because you said they would pay for it and take 25%. That doesn’t sound like anything rolex would ever get involved with. Sounds more like a man with dollar signs in his eyes fronting a store... oh I’ll pay for that if we can have this deal. You could have a very rare Watch. If it were myself I’d get some provenance together and sell it as it stands. You won’t get back the money you spend now on a service and to be honest a genuine collector would probably want it as it is and do the bare minimum to keep some of its charm and originality. That would mean sending it to their watchmaker of choice. If it’s your uncle you should easily be able to get provenance together Id have thought. |
|
22 November 2018, 01:57 AM | #19 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Canada
Watch: 1680
Posts: 1,396
|
I’m certainly no expert, but I’m wondering if selling this at auction would be the best route to find out what it’s actually worth. As most have said, you’d need to find some clear documentation first. If you have that, it would be a game changer.
I’m also very surprised by the proposal you say came from the Gentleman at Rolex Genève. I’ve been there a few times for service and it’s not the sort of place where I can imagine such a proposition. I actually expect he could lose his job for such a suggestion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
22 November 2018, 02:14 AM | #20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 688
|
A comex watch without a comex dial is for me pointless...
|
22 November 2018, 02:58 AM | #21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Real Name: Mike Wood
Location: Liverpool UK
Watch: Listen & Learn!
Posts: 609
|
A 5.23m serial number would be consistent with a Rolex-Comex Submariner ref. 5514, although the case back engravings are not something I've yet come across...
Dial hands and bezel are later service replacements. MW |
22 November 2018, 03:18 AM | #22 |
2024 ROLEX DATE-JUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Sink-O!
Location: a praire in AZ
Watch: ROLEX-less atm...
Posts: 14,007
|
To me it looks like an imposter ~
__________________
*Positive Waves Baby* Lug Hole Loyalist / Chamfer Line Inspector INFORTHE WIN 289
|
22 November 2018, 04:10 AM | #23 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 6,171
|
If Rolex UK or SA have had their hands on it, paperwork would be a nice addition to this thread.
|
22 November 2018, 05:59 AM | #24 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Here
Posts: 4,504
|
Oh man, gets banned, opens new account LOL. We might see the first single-user double ban in the history of a single thread. I'm intrigued and sad, because this watch is really cool and we probably wont get to hear much more about it.
|
22 November 2018, 06:34 AM | #25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Real Name: Neil
Location: PA
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 159
|
Those CGs look too perfect considering how beat up the rest of the watch is.
|
22 November 2018, 07:48 AM | #26 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: CA
Posts: 2,549
|
I don't have much to add here as far as technical advice since I'm nowhere near an expert. I just want to say that you have a beautiful watch and I love the story behind it with your Uncle! Thanks for sharing with us. I will definitely be following your thread here.
The only thing I would say is to keep it original as possible. If you do replace parts, I would definitely ask to keep the old ones. As they say.....it can only be original ONCE! |
22 November 2018, 12:36 PM | #27 | |||||||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada, Montréal
Posts: 12
|
Quote:
I'm currently working on getting more documentations and provenance for the watch, but my uncle died a few years back, and he was pretty distant from the rest of the family at the time, so it's not the easiest. I will keep this thread updated with the more info I find. Thank you for your advice! Quote:
For the Auction's house, I honestly don't know. It's risky in my mind and I agree it's not necessarily the best route. Although that may be where we touch the more people that could have interest in this. Quote:
And again, I'm saying it's a 5513 because that's what the paper from Rolex is saying. I'm putting it attached to this post. Very interesting for the dial hands and bezel, how can you tell? I'm very curious about this. Thank you for your time and your expertise! Quote:
Quote:
And yeah the ban thing is pretty weird. Quote:
Quote:
Thank you also for your advice. |
|||||||
22 November 2018, 01:10 PM | #28 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 5,903
|
If you could remove the bracelet and show a photo of what is between the 12 o'clock lugs, it would help address the 5513/5514 issue.
CG=crown guards. For me, the hands are hard to tell because the photos don't show them very well, but since the dial and bezel insert have been changed, it's highly probable that the hands were changed at the same time. And I wouldn't be surprised if some members have sufficient expertise that they can tell the hands are replacements, even from those photos. The dial and bezel insert are a completely different style than those that were used in 1978. The dial has white gold surrounds around the lume plots; this type of dial started in the 1980s. In 1978, the lume was painted onto the dial without metal borders. It's quite obvious if you just use google and look at 5513 maxi-dial examples. The bezel insert differences are more subtle, but very obvious to people who have looked at thousands of them. It has to do with the font, the thickness of the lines, etc. You can educate yourself about this at http://www.5513mattedial.com |
22 November 2018, 01:19 PM | #29 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Canada, Montréal
Posts: 12
|
Quote:
And thanks a lot for all the details, this is very interesting! Can't believe there is a website just for this :O |
|
22 November 2018, 02:47 PM | #30 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,511
|
Quote:
Think you will need to remove the bracelet (very easy to do) and see what the actual model number is. For all we know, the Rolex person was too lazy and just looked at the watch at a surface level and assume its a 5513. However, saying that, I have never gotten a quote from Rolex without them removing the bracelet as they normally state model number and serial in the quotation letter. Good luck with the journey. My only other comment is the marks on the crystal seem somewhat unnatural (they are large marks) not typical of regular bumps and bruises that I have seen even from watches earlier than this. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.