Accuracy variance

[phez]

Can anyone offer some sound reason for a variance in accuracy?

When fully wound my 2 year old DD40 is around +1 second a day.

At other times it is -6 seconds a day.

It does not vary, it’s either +1 second or -6 seconds, never anything in between.

Could the -6 second timing be due to a low power reserve?

Thanks for any constructive comments.

[Nikrnic]

Fully wind it, I'm sure you did, that's out of cosc, so you could send it in.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[padi56]

Originally Posted by phez

Can anyone offer some sound reason for a variance in accuracy?

When fully wound my 2 year old DD40 is around +1 second a day.

At other times it is -6 seconds a day.

It does not vary, it’s either +1 second or -6 seconds, never anything in between.

Could the -6 second timing be due to a low power reserve?

Thanks for any constructive comments.

All movements perform more accurate when the mainspring is kept at peak power-reserve.Myself would not worry about it we are only talking about a variance of 5 seconds out of 86400 in a day.

[phez]

Originally Posted by padi56

All movements perform more accurate when the mainspring is kept at peak power-reserve.Myself would not worry about it we are only talking about a variance of 5 seconds out of 86400 in a day.

Thank you Peter. Always value your comments.

[darkside7]

What are you sing to check timing?

[phez]

Originally Posted by darkside7

What are you sing to check timing?

Time.is

[Tools]

So, if it is either -6 seconds daily, or +1 seconds daily, it is always running -5 seconds as a daily average?

[phez]

Originally Posted by Tools

So, if it is either -6 seconds daily, or +1 seconds daily, it is always running -5 seconds as a daily average?

Depends how long I wear it for.

It was running at -6 seconds a day for over 2 weeks, worn for at least 22 hours a day.

Took it off Friday and put it on a winder while wearing my Sub.

Put it back on Monday afternoon, gave it a wind and set the time using Time.is, as of 9:25am Thursday it’s gained less than 1 second !

Explain that?

[Andad]

I also see different results between wrist wear and winder wear on my watches.

[peterpl]

This is normal. I found the same thing with many of my watches. When its fully wound up or near fully wind it keeps awesome time.

When the PR goes low then timekeeping usually gets worse.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by phez

Depends how long I wear it for.

It was running at -6 seconds a day for over 2 weeks, worn for at least 22 hours a day.

Took it off Friday and put it on a winder while wearing my Sub.

Put it back on Monday afternoon, gave it a wind and set the time using Time.is, as of 9:25am Thursday it’s gained less than 1 second !

Explain that?

I would say the infernal winding machine could be part of your little problem as in the real world they mainly only top up to the power-reserve they had to start with.And on a machine timing could be different to what it is on the wrist which is the finest watch winder in the world.You could take two identical watches say on your wrist it could perform to say +2 seconds but on the other persons wrist with his wearing habits could be different its because its mechanical.Like wise even when regulated on a machine dont always mean it will perform exactly the same every day as when tested on the machine.And just because you are wearing your watch dont always mean you are winding your watch as it wrist activity movement that winds the watch.

[peterskinner]

Bear in mind that the Rolex timekeeping spec is derived from a 24-hour test on a machine designed to mimic 'normal' wear. It can't be guaranteed in daily use, because use varies so much, and it's mechanical.
I've solved the problem by never testing my DD. I'm sure it's fine.

[phez]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Bear in mind that the Rolex timekeeping spec is derived from a 24-hour test on a machine designed to mimic 'normal' wear. It can't be guaranteed in daily use, because use varies so much, and it's mechanical.
I've solved the problem by never testing my DD. I'm sure it's fine.

Thanks Peter.

[phez]

Originally Posted by peterpl

This is normal. I found the same thing with many of my watches. When its fully wound up or near fully wind it keeps awesome time.

When the PR goes low then timekeeping usually gets worse.

Thanks, good to know.

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by padi56

All movements perform more accurate when the mainspring is kept at peak power-reserve.Myself would not worry about it we are only talking about a variance of 5 seconds out of 86400 in a day.

Of course when you say "5 out of 86400" it SEEMS like not much. But after a month a watch would be about 2 1/2 minutes off. For someone who keeps a tight schedule with colleagues, and has frequent meetings while trying to be productive and efficient right up until that meeting starts, 2 1/2 minutes is far too much. And, no, I don't want a quartz! I want a luxury automatic watch that keeps accurate time. If I want a watch that is 5-6 second off a day, I will buy a Selita, ETA, or basic Seiko. Luckily, my Sub keeps time at less than 2 seconds off each day.

And now that I have taken this way off topic.......I would keep close track for a couple weeks of accuracy. Do it once while winding it fully everyday, and then once while just letting your body movements keep it wound. See if there is any difference between the two.

[daemonix]

my 6 month old SubDate is at least -2.0s per day when on the winder over night and +1.5 flat... (not that Ill lose my sleep over it! :) but based on stats + rolex certification I was expecting less than +-1.0)

[padi56]

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute

Of course when you say "5 out of 86400" it SEEMS like not much. But after a month a watch would be about 2 1/2 minutes off. For someone who keeps a tight schedule with colleagues, and has frequent meetings while trying to be productive and efficient right up until that meeting starts, 2 1/2 minutes is far too much. And, no, I don't want a quartz! I want a luxury automatic watch that keeps accurate time. If I want a watch that is 5-6 second off a day, I will buy a Selita, ETA, or basic Seiko. Luckily, my Sub keeps time at less than 2 seconds off each day.

And now that I have taken this way off topic.......I would keep close track for a couple weeks of accuracy. Do it once while winding it fully everyday, and then once while just letting your body movements keep it wound. See if there is any difference between the two.

Wow in a month your watch would be a whole minute out, so the extra perhaps difference of 1 half minutes would disrupt a tight schedule with colleagues.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by daemonix

my 6 month old SubDate is at least -2.0s per day when on the winder over night and +1.5 flat... (not that Ill lose my sleep over it! :) but based on stats + rolex certification I was expecting less than +-1.0)

Good luck with that

[AEC]

Originally Posted by phez

Can anyone offer some sound reason for a variance in accuracy?

When fully wound my 2 year old DD40 is around +1 second a day.

At other times it is -6 seconds a day.

It does not vary, it’s either +1 second or -6 seconds, never anything in between.

Could the -6 second timing be due to a low power reserve?

Thanks for any constructive comments.

This doesn't sound to me like a Rolex that's working correctly. I'm guessing your watch left the factory after tests indicated it's within spec (thus the +1/day you're seeing under certain conditions), and Rolex wouldn't have let it leave if they knew it was -6/day during normal use.

A Day-Date with the latest, greatest Rolex movement? I wouldn't settle for this performance.

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by padi56

Wow in a month your watch would be a whole minute out, so the extra perhaps difference of 1 half minutes would disrupt a tight schedule with colleagues.

Nope. A watch running +2/day that is one minute off after a month is reasonable for me.

But a watch that is +5/day and is 2 1/2 minutes off in one month is a little less schedule friendly. I mean, in months which I don't have to change to date, I may go 2 months straight wearing the watch---at which point it would be 5 minutes off. No bueno for me. I prefer an accurate watch that meets my needs as a timing tool...espcailly when I'm paying almost $10,000 for it.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by AEC

This doesn't sound to me like a Rolex that's working correctly. I'm guessing your watch left the factory after tests indicated it's within spec (thus the +1/day you're seeing under certain conditions), and Rolex wouldn't have let it leave if they knew it was -6/day during normal use.

A Day-Date with the latest, greatest Rolex movement? I wouldn't settle for this performance.

Let's get things perfectly straight most of you guys have no idea how a mechanical movement works.Yes Rolex if its true after the bare uncased movement is returned after testing at the Swiss COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 over any 24 hour period to get chronometer certification stored then retested in its case.Again they are tested on a machine to this new -2+2 spec and for the vast amount of watches sold by Rolex they must test many at a time, and just like the COSC passed at time of testing on the machine.But on the wrist while wearing there are many many variables to overcome such as gravity in different positions, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, mainspring power-reserve and so on.Just because any movement has been tested on a machine dont mean it will perform exactly the same every day on the wrist, or on one of these so called watch winder machines.Yes the new spec is -2+2 but if its say one or two seconds over spec thats bad, but if its running under stated spec thats fine.Surely if its under then its out of Rolex spec or dont it work both ways.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by padi56

Wow in a month your watch would be a whole minute out, so the extra perhaps difference of 1 half minutes would disrupt a tight schedule with colleagues.

[peterskinner]

Puzzled by the suggestion that watch winders don't fully wind a watch. My Wolf does; put a watch on the machine when barely wound, within a day or two it is fully wound...tested by running it until it stops.
Maybe some devices don't manage this.

[AEC]

Originally Posted by padi56

Let's get things perfectly straight most of you guys have no idea how a mechanical movement works.Yes Rolex if its true after the bare uncased movement is returned after testing at the Swiss COSC to a AVERAGE of -4+6 over any 24 hour period to get chronometer certification stored then retested in its case.Again they are tested on a machine to this new -2+2 spec and for the vast amount of watches sold by Rolex they must test many at a time, and just like the COSC passed at time of testing on the machine.But on the wrist while wearing there are many many variables to overcome such as gravity in different positions, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, mainspring power-reserve and so on.Just because any movement has been tested on a machine dont mean it will perform exactly the same every day on the wrist, or on one of these so called watch winder machines.Yes the new spec is -2+2 but if its say one or two seconds over spec thats bad, but if its running under stated spec thats fine.Surely if its under then its out of Rolex spec or dont it work both ways.

I take offense at the accusation that I don’t understand a mechanical watch movement. You aren’t in a position to know this about me.

I suspect this Day-Date is malfunctioning, and like you and everyone else chiming in here, I am only sharing my opinion .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by padi56

Let's get things perfectly straight most of you guys have no idea how a mechanical movement works.

Hmmmm....a little rude. But you are the mod, so you set the tone, and us being here means we choose to abide by that.

Originally Posted by padi56

But on the wrist while wearing there are many many variables to overcome such as gravity in different positions, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, mainspring power-reserve and so on.

I think most here understand how watches work and the different forces that movements overcome as they function. And, that's one of the things that make Rolex movements (Tudor and Omega, too, at that lower price point) so utterly brilliant--the ability to deal with those forces and still work with such precision!

Originally Posted by padi56

Just because any movement has been tested on a machine dont mean it will perform exactly the same every day on the wrist, or on one of these so called watch winder machines.

I agree--not every watch will operate the same in real life as it does on a machine. However, it is Rolex's goal that every Rolex should operate as well in real life as it does on the machine:

"Certified as a Swiss chronometer by COSC (Swiss Official Chronometer Testing Institute), it is tested a second time by Rolex after being cased to ENSURE THAT IN EVERYDAY USE IT SATISFIES ROLEX'S CRITERIA FOR PRECISION, which are twice as exacting as those for an officially certified chronometer."

And, Rolex will repair it under warranty if it doesn't meet that standard.

Originally Posted by padi56

Yes the new spec is -2+2 but if its say one or two seconds over spec thats bad, but if its running under stated spec thats fine.Surely if its under then its out of Rolex spec or dont it work both ways.

No. If a Rolex is running less accurate than -2/+2 (let's say +3), then it is out of spec. However, if a Rolex is running more accurate than -2/+2 (let's say +1), then it is WITHIN spec. The -2/+2 spec includes any number more accurate than that.

I genuinely appreciate the posts here and continually learn from others, including you. Thank you for imparting what you know here!

[chicagowatchman]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

Puzzled by the suggestion that watch winders don't fully wind a watch. My Wolf does; put a watch on the machine when barely wound, within a day or two it is fully wound...tested by running it until it stops.
Maybe some devices don't manage this.

Does your watch run fast or slow?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by padi56

All movements perform more accurate when the mainspring is kept at peak power-reserve.Myself would not worry about it we are only talking about a variance of 5 seconds out of 86400 in a day.

Agreed.
It is what it is and is a common characteristic of mechanical watch movements in general.

[darkside7]

Originally Posted by phez

Can anyone offer some sound reason for a variance in accuracy?

When fully wound my 2 year old DD40 is around +1 second a day.

At other times it is -6 seconds a day.

It does not vary, it’s either +1 second or -6 seconds, never anything in between.

Could the -6 second timing be due to a low power reserve?

Thanks for any constructive comments.

How are you measuring? You really need to measure using a timegrapher so you can get an accurate numbers

[Greg 59]

If you are looking for accurate timekeeping get an omega

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[EthanMY]

Originally Posted by phez

Can anyone offer some sound reason for a variance in accuracy?

When fully wound my 2 year old DD40 is around +1 second a day.

At other times it is -6 seconds a day.

It does not vary, it’s either +1 second or -6 seconds, never anything in between.

Could the -6 second timing be due to a low power reserve?

Thanks for any constructive comments.

What it is mean by "at other times"? Do you wear your watch daily?
For me, I worn my sub daily (more than 10 hours per day) during weekdays, it is dead accurate, could easily achieved plus minus 0-1 second per day. During weekend, it has got less wrist time since I don't usually put on my watch at home, the accuracy then vary from 2 to 5 seconds, plus minus.

So yeah, from my past experience, if the watch is fully wound, the accuracy is excellent, otherwise, it could be 5 seconds faster or slower per day, depend.

Let's say if you worn it everyday and it still keeping that +1 second per day, I don't think it is out of cosc spec, shouldn't be worry.