Roo too fast

[Leftyman]

Hope you guys can give your thoughts on this.
Took out my roo from the safe after close to a month and a half of sitting there.
Winded it about 20 turns and I put it on. After about half an hour, I noticed it went 15 minutes ahead of the actual time. I observed it about half an hour later and it was running 25 minutes ahead of the actual time. It went on for the whole day.
I kept it overnight and when I looked at it, it didn't gain anymore time so I adjusted to the actual time and now it keeps the right time.
Got it from a trusted seller here last April. It was just serviced and still has about a year on the service warranty.
Did I over wind it ? Would appreciate any thoughts.

[eal15]

Originally Posted by Leftyman

Hope you guys can give your thoughts on this.
Took out my roo from the safe after close to a month and a half of sitting there.
Winded it about 20 turns and I put it on. After about half an hour, I noticed it went 15 minutes ahead of the actual time. I observed it about half an hour later and it was running 25 minutes ahead of the actual time. It went on for the whole day.
I kept it overnight and when I looked at it, it didn't gain anymore time so I adjusted to the actual time and now it keeps the right time.
Got it from a trusted seller here last April. It was just serviced and still has about a year on the service warranty.
Did I over wind it ? Would appreciate any thoughts.

Hi, maybe magnetized it somehow. Doesn't account for accurate time now. Set it to a reference time and wear it for 24 hrs or put it on a winder for that time and then check. You can't overwind an automatic.

[peterpl]

My friends 44MM ROO is also fast. I've heard about this a lot these days and I know a few ppl with ROOs having the exact same issues.

Not as fast as yours but it was like 5 mins every week. That's huge amount for a high end timepiece.

[singe89]

If the mainspring isn't wound enough it can gain a significant amount of time. I've noticed as my watches get really low on power reserve they gain 30+ min. 20 winds should have been enough but if your watch is fully wound now and keeping good time I would just keep an eye on it. If it keeps gaining time send it to APSC.

[PJ S]

^
No watch should ever gain tens of minutes over a number of hours – the effect you’re referring to is isochronism.
Whilst different movement designs will have different durations over which their low PR causes a shift in accuracy, it shouldn’t be monumentally different.
If you are genuinely observing such a jump as described, you should get in touch with the respective brand about it.
In my book, that just isn’t normal operation of a properly designed and assembled movement – even the basic tracteurs by ETA, Sellita, Soprod, Miyota, and Seiko – heck even the Chinese ETA-clones in a Seagull wouldn’t be as bad either.

[jem7v]

I noticed my watch today is about 25 seconds fast. But I don't put it on a winder. If during the time I put it down at night, as the power reserve gets low, is that normal then?

[Leftyman]

Originally Posted by eal15

Hi, maybe magnetized it somehow. Doesn't account for accurate time now. Set it to a reference time and wear it for 24 hrs or put it on a winder for that time and then check. You can't overwind an automatic.

For now, it's keeping the right time. I will run down the power reserve and wind it again. I will update again on what happens.

[Leftyman]

Originally Posted by jem7v

I noticed my watch today is about 25 seconds fast. But I don't put it on a winder. If during the time I put it down at night, as the power reserve gets low, is that normal then?

Any thoughts about this pj s?

[Leftyman]

[QUOTE=singe89;7251548]If the mainspring isn't wound enough it can gain a significant amount of time. I've noticed as my watches get really low on power reserve they gain 30+ min. 20 winds should have been enough but if your watch is fully wound now and keeping good time I would just keep an eye on it. If it keeps gaining time send it to APSC.[/

I bought it from a trusted seller last April 2016. Since I'm from out of the U.S It sat on the safe of a friends house in the U.S until I got it sometime end of July 2016. No issues with it at all until I now.
It's keeping the right time now but will still observe.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jem7v

I noticed my watch today is about 25 seconds fast. But I don't put it on a winder. If during the time I put it down at night, as the power reserve gets low, is that normal then?

Originally Posted by Leftyman

Any thoughts about this pj s?

A bit of testing is required, to find out what/when it’s doing it – and it’ll take a bit of time, since you’ll need to establish a benchmark.

If you’ve been wearing the watch and active enough, it should be fully wound – if you want to be absolutely sure, then give it 15-20 turns with the crown.
Set the time against time.is, then leave the watch off your wrist and in the normal position that you rest it (crown up/down, crystal up being the most common orientations) for the next 24 hours.
Once the period has elapsed, check the time against time.is and note the offset that has occurred.
That’s your benchmark for a fully wound mainspring providing sufficient torque to the escapement.

Again, set the time, then lay it down for another 24 hours and note the difference.
If it’s within a second of the previous difference, then it shows you’ve not hit the low PR point where accuracy suffers, but with around 12 hours still left, I’d be surprised if the offset wasn’t a bit more.
And finally, set the time once more, and then see what the difference is when there’s about 2 hours left from the original 60 in total that the 3120 is supposed to have.
If you’re want, you can monitor the watch hourly, noting the difference, just in case it expires before 60 hours have elapsed, or it wasn’t 100% fully wound at the start of this process.
At the final check, you should see a clear deviation in the time displayed and what the actual time is.

All of that will provide you with evidence of the state of isochronism in your watch, as well as (hopefully) confirm your PR meets or exceeds the specs.
If you see an offset of minutes over those last dozen hours or so, then you should consider discussing it with APSC.


Now, before starting, you should be already aware that from the outset, AP’s regulation tolerance is given as -1/+10 secs per day.
It’s for this reason, that you need to go through the rigmarole of establishing what yours is at – and bear in mind on-the-wrist accuracy may differ due to the isochronal element of balance wheel angle, as well as temperature differential compared to the room’s in the outlined process above. Otherwise, it’d be a simple matter of putting 6-8 turns of the crown into a stopped watch, set the time, then note it after 6 hours or so, since we’d expect the mainspring to have a lower torque force as a result of its low PR state.


If you have multiple watches and figure this is far too tedious/time consuming to do for all of them, then it might be worth investing a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros into a timegrapher, which will let you monitor the performance of your collection.
Accuracy is one aspect of a healthy movement, but its amplitude which really gives a better indication of where it’s at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcCKrioYKMo

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=390853

[Leftyman]

Originally Posted by PJ S

A bit of testing is required, to find out what/when it’s doing it – and it’ll take a bit of time, since you’ll need to establish a benchmark.

If you’ve been wearing the watch and active enough, it should be fully wound – if you want to be absolutely sure, then give it 15-20 turns with the crown.
Set the time against time.is, then leave the watch off your wrist and in the normal position that you rest it (crown up/down, crystal up being the most common orientations) for the next 24 hours.
Once the period has elapsed, check the time against time.is and note the offset that has occurred.
That’s your benchmark for a fully wound mainspring providing sufficient torque to the escapement.

Again, set the time, then lay it down for another 24 hours and note the difference.
If it’s within a second of the previous difference, then it shows you’ve not hit the low PR point where accuracy suffers, but with around 12 hours still left, I’d be surprised if the offset wasn’t a bit more.
And finally, set the time once more, and then see what the difference is when there’s about 2 hours left from the original 60 in total that the 3120 is supposed to have.
If you’re want, you can monitor the watch hourly, noting the difference, just in case it expires before 60 hours have elapsed, or it wasn’t 100% fully wound at the start of this process.
At the final check, you should see a clear deviation in the time displayed and what the actual time is.

All of that will provide you with evidence of the state of isochronism in your watch, as well as (hopefully) confirm your PR meets or exceeds the specs.
If you see an offset of minutes over those last dozen hours or so, then you should consider discussing it with APSC.


Now, before starting, you should be already aware that from the outset, AP’s regulation tolerance is given as -1/+10 secs per day.
It’s for this reason, that you need to go through the rigmarole of establishing what yours is at – and bear in mind on-the-wrist accuracy may differ due to the isochronal element of balance wheel angle, as well as temperature differential compared to the room’s in the outlined process above. Otherwise, it’d be a simple matter of putting 6-8 turns of the crown into a stopped watch, set the time, then note it after 6 hours or so, since we’d expect the mainspring to have a lower torque force as a result of its low PR state.


If you have multiple watches and figure this is far too tedious/time consuming to do for all of them, then it might be worth investing a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros into a timegrapher, which will let you monitor the performance of your collection.
Accuracy is one aspect of a healthy movement, but its amplitude which really gives a better indication of where it’s at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcCKrioYKMo

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=390853

Very noteworthy suggestions.
Thank you.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

A bit of testing is required, to find out what/when it’s doing it – and it’ll take a bit of time, since you’ll need to establish a benchmark.

If you’ve been wearing the watch and active enough, it should be fully wound – if you want to be absolutely sure, then give it 15-20 turns with the crown.
Set the time against time.is, then leave the watch off your wrist and in the normal position that you rest it (crown up/down, crystal up being the most common orientations) for the next 24 hours.
Once the period has elapsed, check the time against time.is and note the offset that has occurred.
That’s your benchmark for a fully wound mainspring providing sufficient torque to the escapement.

Again, set the time, then lay it down for another 24 hours and note the difference.
If it’s within a second of the previous difference, then it shows you’ve not hit the low PR point where accuracy suffers, but with around 12 hours still left, I’d be surprised if the offset wasn’t a bit more.
And finally, set the time once more, and then see what the difference is when there’s about 2 hours left from the original 60 in total that the 3120 is supposed to have.
If you’re want, you can monitor the watch hourly, noting the difference, just in case it expires before 60 hours have elapsed, or it wasn’t 100% fully wound at the start of this process.
At the final check, you should see a clear deviation in the time displayed and what the actual time is.

All of that will provide you with evidence of the state of isochronism in your watch, as well as (hopefully) confirm your PR meets or exceeds the specs.
If you see an offset of minutes over those last dozen hours or so, then you should consider discussing it with APSC.


Now, before starting, you should be already aware that from the outset, AP’s regulation tolerance is given as -1/+10 secs per day.
It’s for this reason, that you need to go through the rigmarole of establishing what yours is at – and bear in mind on-the-wrist accuracy may differ due to the isochronal element of balance wheel angle, as well as temperature differential compared to the room’s in the outlined process above. Otherwise, it’d be a simple matter of putting 6-8 turns of the crown into a stopped watch, set the time, then note it after 6 hours or so, since we’d expect the mainspring to have a lower torque force as a result of its low PR state.


If you have multiple watches and figure this is far too tedious/time consuming to do for all of them, then it might be worth investing a few hundred dollars/pounds/euros into a timegrapher, which will let you monitor the performance of your collection.
Accuracy is one aspect of a healthy movement, but its amplitude which really gives a better indication of where it’s at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcCKrioYKMo

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=390853

I don't mind trying this, but my watch is an automatic. So it's not hand wound. What should I do to make it fully wound? Shake it a bunch of times? lol

[PJ S]

You can if you wish, but you’re also able to do it manually by just twiddling the crown repeatedly.
In that regard, you’ll probably want to give the crown about 15 full turns (50 if stopped) – doesn’t matter if you do more, just to be sure, since the mainspring will simply slip in the barrel so as
to prevent damage from overwinding.

I wouldn’t say the 3120 is a delicate thing, but you wouldn’t want to habitually hand crank it from stopped to fully wound – the odd time to test like above, isn’t going to do it any harm.

[jem7v]

Noticed today my watch is now 30 seconds off from the 25 from yesterday.

[PJ S]

^
So it looks like it’s running +5 on your wrist.

After you’ve done the above, to see where/how the 25 seconds arose from, then you can do positional accuracy checks each night, to see if one position can reduce or offset the day’s gain, thereby having the watch running pretty much spot on.
By positional checking, I’m referring to leaving the watch with its crown up or down, crystal down, and 6 and 12 up – you might need to prop it up.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

^
So it looks like it’s running +5 on your wrist.

After you’ve done the above, to see where/how the 25 seconds arose from, then you can do positional accuracy checks each night, to see if one position can reduce or offset the day’s gain, thereby having the watch running pretty much spot on.
By positional checking, I’m referring to leaving the watch with its crown up or down, crystal down, and 6 and 12 up – you might need to prop it up.

So is this normal? I'll check it again tomorrow before doing this test. Though I'm not wearing it right now. I only wore it maybe 1-2 hours today. It's off my wrist in it's box. I have it propped up on it's band basically sitting in the AP box.

[PJ S]

Yes, as I said above, since AP regulates the 3120 to fall within a -1/+10 secs per day window.
If you want it tighter, APSC will normally accommodate the request.

That it gained 25 in one day is the concern, and hence going through the above process to see if it’s repeatable and then ask APSC if the data is indicative of a potential issue (to be resolved whilst presumably under warranty?) or correlates with their own data – in which case it’s nothing to be alarmed by and is just a matter of trying to keep the mainspring wound as much as possible whilst worn.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Yes, as I said above, since AP regulates the 3120 to fall within a -1/+10 secs per day window.
If you want it tighter, APSC will normally accommodate the request.

That it gained 25 in one day is the concern, and hence going through the above process to see if it’s repeatable and then ask APSC if the data is indicative of a potential issue (to be resolved whilst presumably under warranty?) or correlates with their own data – in which case it’s nothing to be alarmed by and is just a matter of trying to keep the mainspring wound as much as possible whilst worn.

Alright. I'll let it die and try it out. I don't remember actually when I think back, if the 25 seconds was in one day or over a few. If I lose 5 seconds a day, then technically after 5 days, I should be at the same point.

[Leftyman]

Mine is actually running well right now. It's been in winder for a couple of days already. I will run down the power reserve tonite and see what happens after a few days of not wearing it. Should I wind it again? If so, how many winds pj s?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jem7v

Alright. I'll let it die and try it out. I don't remember actually when I think back, if the 25 seconds was in one day or over a few. If I lose 5 seconds a day, then technically after 5 days, I should be at the same point.

No need to let it stop, just wind it manually – even 30 turns if you want to be doubly sure – then follow the process above.
If there’s a chance the 25 secs drift has occurred over 4-5 days, then you’re well within spec, and it doesn’t seem that you hit the low PR deviation before putting it on the next day.
All in all, it’s up to you how exact you want the watch to be – whether you carry on as is, or ask APSC to regulate it tighter to 0.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Leftyman

Mine is actually running well right now. It's been in winder for a couple of days already. I will run down the power reserve tonite and see what happens after a few days of not wearing it. Should I wind it again? If so, how many winds pj s?

Again, no need to let the watch stop before starting to test it – if continue until it stops, then you’ll be able to work out the PR amount, as see if it corresponds to the specs or what you thought was a fully wound mainspring.
I’d like to think the specs for pretty much every watch are on the conservative side, and that in practice, a good healthy movement provides a few hours more than expected.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Yes, as I said above, since AP regulates the 3120 to fall within a -1/+10 secs per day window.

Where have you gotten that information? AP has from what I can find no written specifications on their tolerances. They used to have few years back, but not anymore for some reason.

[PJ S]

^
From APSC London.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

No need to let it stop, just wind it manually – even 30 turns if you want to be doubly sure – then follow the process above.
If there’s a chance the 25 secs drift has occurred over 4-5 days, then you’re well within spec, and it doesn’t seem that you hit the low PR deviation before putting it on the next day.
All in all, it’s up to you how exact you want the watch to be – whether you carry on as is, or ask APSC to regulate it tighter to 0.

How should I manually wind it? Pull the crown all the way out and turn it 30 times?

[PJ S]

Same way you would on any other watch with a screw-down crown.
Unscrew the crown, and when it pops free of the threads, simply turn the crown away from yourself.
All this is in your owners manual, and they seem to suggest 30 full turns is sufficient for a full wind, from stopped – so 10-15 is probably more than ample for a partially wound spring.
Once done and time set, screw the crown back in, and then put the watch in its resting position.

If you were to start it at 9pm then by the 3rd day, assuming you’re up from 6am, you could check it then or at 7, knowing it should stop around 9am. When you get home later, you can see when it did stop, and calculate the actual PR time.
Naturally, if you’re testing a watch with a chronograph, make sure it’s not running or it’ll eat into the PR.

[lapince]

WOW, now that's a fast watch!!!! Mine ran a little fast, but nothing close to your's, it needs to go to APSC IMO

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Same way you would on any other watch with a screw-down crown.
Unscrew the crown, and when it pops free of the threads, simply turn the crown away from yourself.
All this is in your owners manual, and they seem to suggest 30 full turns is sufficient for a full wind, from stopped – so 10-15 is probably more than ample for a partially wound spring.
Once done and time set, screw the crown back in, and then put the watch in its resting position.

If you were to start it at 9pm then by the 3rd day, assuming you’re up from 6am, you could check it then or at 7, knowing it should stop around 9am. When you get home later, you can see when it did stop, and calculate the actual PR time.
Naturally, if you’re testing a watch with a chronograph, make sure it’s not running or it’ll eat into the PR.

So I barely wore my watch yesterday (like 40 minutes maybe), and today I won't be wearing it. When I checked today it gained another 4-5 seconds. So given yesterday it gained 4-5 seconds and today it gained the same, I'm assuming the 25 seconds must be from 5 days previously.

I'll manually wind it tomorrow. I want to see as the PR goes down if it gets even faster than 4-5 seconds.

[Manofsteelpt]

Reading this thread is actually hurting my eyes.

And there's NO WAY that's PJ replying, someone musta hacked his account.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Same way you would on any other watch with a screw-down crown.
Unscrew the crown, and when it pops free of the threads, simply turn the crown away from yourself.
All this is in your owners manual, and they seem to suggest 30 full turns is sufficient for a full wind, from stopped – so 10-15 is probably more than ample for a partially wound spring.
Once done and time set, screw the crown back in, and then put the watch in its resting position.

If you were to start it at 9pm then by the 3rd day, assuming you’re up from 6am, you could check it then or at 7, knowing it should stop around 9am. When you get home later, you can see when it did stop, and calculate the actual PR time.
Naturally, if you’re testing a watch with a chronograph, make sure it’s not running or it’ll eat into the PR.

So I am so stupid, let me start with that. My watch has actually been running slow not fast. So I was losing 5 seconds a day not gaining. I did what you suggested PJ and manually wound the watch. I turned it 30-40 times.

So we'll see how it does with the time.

[PJ S]

Okay, -5 per day is outside of spec – it should be no more than -1.
When you’ve completed this test, do the same again, only varying the position it’s left in overnight.
If you find one position that it runs fast in, then you can use that knowledge to average out the deviation.
If there’s no difference, positionally, then it should be seen by APSC to remedy via regulation or service.