Am I Dumb to Pay a Premium for a 5167a?

[Breizh]

Time and money have a different value for different people.
Getting a Nautilus or Aquanaut is simply impossible if it's the only piece you want to buy.
If you're comfortable with the premium, then go for it.
I've bought both my Nautilus and Sub from greys and I've had absolutely zero regrets.
With no prior history I would still be waiting for both pieces for who knows how long (if ever). Life is too short. Only you can decide if you're ok with the price. If you are, you won't regret it at all.

[Collector2019]

5167 isn’t worth it honestly - even at retail it’s overvalued if we eliminate value retention


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[vint0]

It may be overpriced honestly but if you love it and can afford it, then it's not a bad idea to get it.

[enjoythemusic]

Just realized Greys want $30k? LOL! Hard pass. It's a $17k watch at best, be realistic, ok maybe $20k max.

If I may suggest, look at what FPJ and ALS offer in that $30k range. Food for thought, you could get a brand new with 5 year warranty Rolex GMT even at Grey pricing, a new Panerai with 8 year warranty, and a new Grand Seiko with 3 year warranty for $30k.

[Ny325]

MSRP, or I’m not buying.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

If I may suggest, look at what FPJ and ALS offer in that $30k range. Food for thought, you could get a brand new with 5 year warranty Rolex GMT even at Grey pricing, a new Panerai with 8 year warranty, and a new Grand Seiko with 3 year warranty for $30k.

ALS you can get a LOT of watch for $30k. In fact, I think the Time Zone has come down to this level, or close to it. ALS is a very different watch though - They aren't at all "sport models", but man almost every single one of them is gorgeous. I have a Saxonia Moonphase and I don't wear it very often, but I certainly do admire it.

I have been keeping my eye on FPJ as well. You can get some of his Classic models at the $30k price point (such as a Sovereign, and MAYBE and Automatic Moon). However, FPJ has become an interest of some of the grays and the prices have increased over the past year. I don't know if this will hold or not, so I've been a bit skeptical to pull the trigger on one.

Can't imagine paying MSRP for either of these brands though. They are lovely watches and are definitely for those who genuinely enjoy watchmaking, finishing, and movements, but most of them are stinkers in value retention.

[RotaryRider]

Here is a scenario: The dealer you are on a waitlist at calls you tomorrow AM and says “Sir, Good news and bad news. Good news - we have the 5167/1A you are on the list for. Bad news, they raised the retail price to $30k last night. This can be yours for $30k + tax. Would you be coming in to pick up or should we ship it to you?”
Now you are getting the watch ‘at retail’ but still for $30k. You still want it? The thing you have to decide is this - is your challenge not being able to get it at retail or it is paying $30k for it? Once you answer that, you will know.

[18078pres]

Life is short why not if you got the means go for it !!! Being on a years or more waiting list you may never own one. Being in my 60s and wanted one grey it would be !

[jfriedkin]

Ask Steven if you can buy his for $22k. Since he believes it's not worth $20k

[S``]

Originally Posted by jfriedkin

Ask Steven if you can buy his for $22k. Since he believes it's not worth $20k

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by jfriedkin

Ask Steven if you can buy his for $22k. Since he believes it's not worth $20k

LOL! Got bored with it and sold it years ago. A year or so earlier we sold the wife's matching ?5065? as she was afraid it was too fragile. She does Zumba, works out, and really BEATS the living sh*t out of timepieces she wears. So... a DJ36 made far more sense for her so got a custom job she loves with bling MOP pink flower dial.

Moved to FL so migrated my collection to true sports timepieces as i wear 'em like beaters. Wore the Panerai PAM01033 GMT to the beach yesterday, did some ocean swimming, etc too. Always nice not to have to worry about the durability of the watches i wear. Perhaps if i was less active (dare we say older) a Patek would make sense within my collection, yet no longer given my youthful and active lifestyle when not coding

Also consider service times. Am sure many here agree Patek's paltry 2 year warranty lags far behind the industry, and compare service times too. With these factors in mind, choose the brand you support accordingly imho.

Compare what timepieces you can get for $30k and decide wisely. Have been collecting for decades, so have seen the up and down bubbles a few times.

[archer1021]

The way I see it, 5+ years ago buying a watch at msrp was considered a rip off as most watches, including most rolexes would lose you 30% when you walked out with it, and that is being nice. People would be shocked if you didn’t at least get some discount on a watch.

This recent new world where many watches are worth 2-2.5 times msrp is great and doesn’t look like it’s going anywhere soon.


But just as most people who really like watches did 5 years ago, they bought the watch they liked it, not because of what they felt they would lose. I know that many say the 5167 is not a 30K + watch, but for the foreseeable future....it is.

So buy what you like and don’t look back. Or wait 3 years.


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[offrdmania]

The more I am looking I have reached out to a few people. I can get one with papers for around 28K right now and without papers for $27K. I am going to keep looking for a bit and see what comes about.

[enjoythemusic]

offrdmania, please make sure it has the original box, original papers (not archives), etc as anything less for a modern watch seems to highly devalue it within the Patek resale community. As the 5167 has been around for a long time, check service records. Avoid very early models, as i recall the strap/bracelet linking is different than the plethora of later models produced. Call Patek to verify the date / SN when they did the bracelet linkage changeover. Don't want to see you stuck with a model that uses the old style.

Imho if you wait a few months when the mortgage industry starts heading south... so keep looking and waiting imho for better deals :)

[offrdmania]

The one I found for 28 has original box and warranty paper. The watch is from 2017. Archives arent available for 5 years.

[Speedbird-1]

Yes.
But, it's only money. What else are you going to do with it?

You are going to be giving someone, almost double the MRSP though.

Enjoy the RUBBER STRAP too!

[offrdmania]

$37,880 would be double MSRP. I wouldnt be paying anything near that

[mbalmz]

MSRP is an arbitrary number, who cares?

decide how much $ the watch is worth to you and go from there.

MSRP is way too high for some watches, for some I’d pay over. Geneva’s “suggestion” doesn’t determine what a watch is worth to me.

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by mbalmz

MSRP is an arbitrary number, who cares?

decide how much $ the watch is worth to you and go from there.

MSRP is way too high for some watches, for some I’d pay over. Geneva’s “suggestion” doesn’t determine what a watch is worth to me.

Very true. With some of these models such as the 5711/1A and 15202, by time you actually **might** get a call from an AD, the retail will probably be what the secondary price is today. MSRP's are increasing rapidly on many of these in-demand watches. I don't see this changing as long as these models stay hot.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by mbalmz

MSRP is an arbitrary number, who cares?

Some love 'reading' the obvious signs of a massive bubble.

[macrowatch]

I personally found the 28k too hard to stomach compared to a PM OF Daytona personally. I do find it interesting to note that 5167 used to list for around 22k in secondary market as recently as 10 months ago.

I'd be willing to over pay at 22k for what it is. Otherwise at least the R premium % wise is bearable. Just wish the R version came with black dial and black strap.

[mbalmz]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Some love 'reading' the obvious signs of a massive bubble.

not sure I follow?

[mbalmz]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

Very true. With some of these models such as the 5711/1A and 15202, by time you actually **might** get a call from an AD, the retail will probably be what the secondary price is today. MSRP's are increasing rapidly on many of these in-demand watches. I don't see this changing as long as these models stay hot.

the whole notion of MSRP being an arbiter of what price is "appropriate" is silly to me. watches are luxury items that people should pay as much or as little as they feel is merited for.

brands jack up MSRP all the time for no reason; doesn't impact what the watch is worth to me.

[watchucallit]

I generally will pay a premium but not over 10 to maybe 20% so for some of the pieces I want-- -just won't do it.. However would not say it is dumb to do so.. Depends on what you want, finances and alternative choices.

[sgwatchguy]

Nearly always an enabler.

BUT the premium on this model is nonsensical to me. There’s so many options out there for that kind of price. Sleep over it and once things open up, try other pieces and see how you feel. If you want to keep coming back to this, then it’s worth what you’re willing to pay for it.

[benlee]

Personally, I have never paid for a watch above MSRP. If I do, there will always be the nagging feeling that I have overpaid for something and taken in as a sucker. That will detract me from enjoying the watch. But that's just me. YMMV.

[GreenLantern]

The only thing I'd ever pay above MSRP for is a vintage watch in pristine condition.

[GoingPlaces]

If it makes you happy go for it. Personally I never warmed up to the 5167. It’s a 20K watch, for what the greys are asking there are simply too many better options. It’s a cool piece but far from special.


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[nda]

Wines, cars, art.... watches. Many are traded over the original retail price. I'd like to pay the retail price of $14,000 for a Ferrari 250SWB. :)

If you want something and you can afford it - buy it. Life is too short to go through the ridiculous two year + courtship display required by some dealers.

[Muxi]

I would pay a premium, no problem. Just wait for the right time sometime within the next few months, is what I’d do.